Varsho would be the starting CF on pretty much any team in the league. He's the best defensive OF in baseball and has a 96 wRC+ this year for 2.0 fWAR/3.0 bWAR at the All Star break.
The only difference is that better teams would have him in the 8/9 spot in the lineup instead of needing him to hit in the 5/6 spots.
That's kind of the issue though. I mean nobody sane is arguing Varsho is a bad player. I've been one of the most vocable guy against that trade and i've said multiple time Varsho would be a great center fielder. People should simply ignore the bad takes.
That doesn't change the fact that when this trade was made the Jays needed a strong middle of the order batter. There was only two way to acquire one. UFA market or trade. The Jays not being a prime destination for UFAs a trade was more likely. Trading good assets for a defensive center fielder while the Jays still needed to find that middle of the order bat was imo a dumb move.
What Moreno becomes or not doesn't matter. What matters is he had good value and Atkins did not use it in a package to fill the biggest need of the team which was middle of the order bat. Without that bat nothing else matter. I'm not interested in all the excuses people use to defend Atkins. He wins all his trades etc .. he had to get a middle of the order bat after trading Hernandez and he failed to do so for me the story ends there.
That's kind of the issue though. I mean nobody sane is arguing Varsho is a bad player. I've been one of the most vocable guy against that trade and i've said multiple time Varsho would be a great center fielder. People should simply ignore the bad takes.
That doesn't change the fact that when this trade was made the Jays needed a strong middle of the order batter. There was only two way to acquire one. UFA market or trade. The Jays not being a prime destination for UFAs a trade was more likely. Trading good assets for a defensive center fielder while the Jays still needed to find that middle of the order bat was imo a dumb move.
What Moreno becomes or not doesn't matter. What matters is he had good value and Atkins did not use it in a package to fill the biggest need of the team which was middle of the order bat. Without that bat nothing else matter. I'm not interested in all the excuses people use to defend Atkins. He wins all his trades etc .. he had to get a middle of the order bat after trading Hernandez and he failed to do so for me the story ends there.
That lineup includes six "middle of the order bats" and is perfectly set up to pivot away from a couple of those guys in favour of a couple elite defenders. Hell, Teo (105) and Gurriel (106) both took significant steps back the next year and performed the same as Kiermaier (104) offensively, while Belt (138) came in and vastly outperformed them. The moves they made didn't actually make the offense worse than it would have been.
The problem with the 2023 offense was that pretty much everyone, with the exception of Bo, took a step (or two or three) back. You can blame management for not having the personnel in place to prevent that from happening (or for making terrible coaching decisions), but even after the trades they had a lineup loaded with guys coming off huge seasons. I think the suggestion that they had some kind of gaping hole in the lineup is conflating that offseason with the most recent one.
That lineup includes six "middle of the order bats" and is perfectly set up to pivot away from a couple of those guys in favour of a couple elite defenders. Hell, Teo (105) and Gurriel (106) both took significant steps back the next year and performed the same as Kiermaier (104) offensively, while Belt (138) came in and vastly outperformed them. The moves they made didn't actually make the offense worse than it would have been.
The problem with the 2023 offense was that pretty much everyone, with the exception of Bo, took a step (or two or three) back. You can blame management for not having the personnel in place to prevent that from happening (or for making terrible coaching decisions), but even after the trades they had a lineup loaded with guys coming off huge seasons. I think the suggestion that they had some kind of gaping hole in the lineup is conflating that offseason with the most recent one.
Also had Varsho coming off a good year offensively. I think they missed out in 2023 by not getting an RHB that can hit lefties well. Their biggest flaw was bringing in Mattingly. I think Hague is doing well with some of the players but Mattingly has been bad. Springer's resurgence seems to be connected with Hague because he is often talking to him.
Varsho would be the starting CF on pretty much any team in the league. He's the best defensive OF in baseball and has a 96 wRC+ this year for 2.0 fWAR/3.0 bWAR at the All Star break.
The only difference is that better teams would have him in the 8/9 spot in the lineup instead of needing him to hit in the 5/6 spots.
Also had Varsho coming off a good year offensively. I think they missed out in 2023 by not getting an RHB that can hit lefties well. Their biggest flaw was bringing in Mattingly. I think Hague is doing well with some of the players but Mattingly has been bad. Springer's resurgence seems to be connected with Hague because he is often talking to him.
Varsho would be the starting CF on pretty much any team in the league. He's the best defensive OF in baseball and has a 96 wRC+ this year for 2.0 fWAR/3.0 bWAR at the All Star break.
The only difference is that better teams would have him in the 8/9 spot in the lineup instead of needing him to hit in the 5/6 spots.
Atkins has been a bad gm. Varsho isn’t hitting how he can but he’s the best defensive fielder in the game so he’s not useless like you want to say. He’ll be a lower bat until he figures it out again. He had lots of power but it’s disappeared since he got here which also correlates with Kirk, Bo etc. no idea what’s happening with the jays but Varsho isn’t alone with his struggles
Atkins has been a bad gm. Varsho isn’t hitting how he can but he’s the best defensive fielder in the game so he’s not useless like you want to say. He’ll be a lower bat until he figures it out again. He had lots of power but it’s disappeared since he got here which also correlates with Kirk, Bo etc. no idea what’s happening with the jays but Varsho isn’t alone with his struggles
Maybe you should get your eyes checked. I said Varsho was a “defensive specialist”. He’s very useful as a pinch runner or defensive replacement in the 7th inning but he’s substandard hitter who whiffs on high fastballs and represents another hole in the lineup full of holes.
We shoulda kept or brought back Teo. His defensive deficiencies would have been covered up by Varsho. The whole point of having Varsho is he can compensate for weak defenders in the corners with his range.
He's sporting a 95 OPS+ meaning he's only 5% worse offensively than the average batter. Considering he's likely the best defensive player in baseball - he would almost assuredly be a starter on every team in baseball.
I think that bad seasons do happen, it doesn't mean you have to tear everything down and start from scratch. You don't do that every time you have a bad season where things did not go your way. They can retool and contend next year.
I think that bad seasons do happen, it doesn't mean you have to tear everything down and start from scratch. You don't do that every time you have a bad season where things did not go your way. They can retool and contend next year.
Too many holes. Need almost a whole new BP, 3-5 starters (can't go into the season with just 5 viable sp arms), plus several positional players with 2 of them being middle-of the order type bats.
We have virtually no one who can help on the farm and we're already capped out and don't have enough cap coming off the books to address more than a couple of the aforementioned holes.
We almost certainly have a new GM coming in, so it seems like a great time for a rebuild. It'd be great to restock our farm rather than chase the last wild-card spot and then see guys like Bo and Vlad leave for nothing and guys like Bassitt and Gausman age out of any trade value.
Too many holes. Need almost a whole new BP, 3-5 starters (can't go into the season with just 5 viable sp arms), plus several positional players with 2 of them being middle-of the order type bats.
We have virtually no one who can help on the farm and we're already capped out and don't have enough cap coming off the books to address more than a couple of the aforementioned holes.
We almost certainly have a new GM coming in, so it seems like a great time for a rebuild. It'd be great to restock our farm rather than chase the last wild-card spot and then see guys like Bo and Vlad leave for nothing and guys like Bassitt and Gausman age out of any trade value.
Yeah, we've been re-tooling the roster basically every year that they fail. Simply put, Vladdy and Bo aren't as good as they were supposed to be. There's not enough talent in the line-up, in the rotation or in the pen, and there's not enough coming up through the system.
I think that bad seasons do happen, it doesn't mean you have to tear everything down and start from scratch. You don't do that every time you have a bad season where things did not go your way. They can retool and contend next year.
Too many holes. Need almost a whole new BP, 3-5 starters (can't go into the season with just 5 viable sp arms), plus several positional players with 2 of them being middle-of the order type bats.
We have virtually no one who can help on the farm and we're already capped out and don't have enough cap coming off the books to address more than a couple of the aforementioned holes.
We almost certainly have a new GM coming in, so it seems like a great time for a rebuild. It'd be great to restock our farm rather than chase the last wild-card spot and then see guys like Bo and Vlad leave for nothing and guys like Bassitt and Gausman age out of any trade value.
Yeah, we've been re-tooling the roster basically every year that they fail. Simply put, Vladdy and Bo aren't as good as they were supposed to be. There's not enough talent in the line-up, in the rotation or in the pen, and there's not enough coming up through the system.
Varsho has a such a nice swing lol perhaps he is too short? He misses so many pitches or is extremely late. Quite the black hole in the batting lineup. I would clearly trade him for someone who can hit.
He's short, and his swing is too compact. You'll notice anytime a pitcher gasses high heat or a touch outside he always swings and misses.
He's most dangerous if someone throws him something a touch low/inside and he always pulls the ball to right field. Chance he'll blast a ball down the line or an HR to RF,
Varsho would be the starting CF on pretty much any team in the league. He's the best defensive OF in baseball and has a 96 wRC+ this year for 2.0 fWAR/3.0 bWAR at the All Star break.
The only difference is that better teams would have him in the 8/9 spot in the lineup instead of needing him to hit in the 5/6 spots.
We shoulda kept or brought back Teo. His defensive deficiencies would have been covered up by Varsho. The whole point of having Varsho is he can compensate for weak defenders in the corners with his range.
Consistent power hitters are hard to find. He's doing just as good as always in LA. Same for Seattle. His defence wasnt great. But thats ok because he could had been pegged as the typical DH slugger.
Consistent power hitters are hard to find. He's doing just as good as always in LA. Same for Seattle. His defence wasnt great. But thats ok because he could had been pegged as the typical DH slugger.
Since there's no TV game tonight because of dumb apple TV BS, and because not everyone is even paying attention to the Jays right now given their struggles, I'm back with another classic MLB radio broadcast from the past.
This time, in honor of having just done the all-star game, we're going into the archives for a vintage midsummer classic from July 10, 1956, hosted by the Washington Senators at Griffith Stadium in D.C.
Unlike the previous ASG I did there's no Mel Allen on the call here as he had long since graduated to TV. Instead this was broadcast by the Mutual Radio Network (one of the big radio networks along with NBC and CBS. They never made the jump to television like the others, but were a heavyweight in the radio game, with some of the most respected news coverage and the biggest pulp adventure dramas of the time, such as The Lone Ranger, The Adventures of Superman, The Shadow, Dick Tracy, and The Saint starring Vincent Price). Handling the play-calling duties were Cleveland-based sports broadcaster Bob Neal (the play by play of the Indians and Browns of the era) and New York's Bob Wolff (who called most New York sports of the day including Rangers hockey games).
If the Senators name is unfamiliar, they were part of the earliest years of MLB, dating back to 1901 and had a world series win in the 20s. But by the 40s and 50s the team's fortunes turned and they became a joke franchise that often finished in the basement and were surpassed in the region by the upstart Baltimore Orioles. A year before this all-star game the club's long-time owner (and former player and manager) Clark Griffith passed away, leaving the club to his son and nephew. They sold the stadium to the city of Washington and in 1960 agreed to relocate the Senators to Minnesota where they became the Twins. In 1961 Washington was granted a new expansion team that was also named the Senators, but it too struggled and in 1971 was itself relocated to become the Texas Rangers. That version of the Senators does have one modern day nod in that the curly script "W" on the hats of the Washington Nationals is the same as the second iteration Senators' cap insignia.
But I will list the starting lineups and notable bench players who did get into the game at some point:
American League
National League
SS Harvey Kuenn (Tigers)
2B Johnny Temple (Reds)
2B Nellie Fox (White Sox)
LF Frank Robinson (Reds)
LF Ted Williams (Red Sox)
RF Stan Musial (Cardinals)
CF Mickey Mantle (Yankees)
3B Ken Boyer (Cardinals)
C Yogi Berra (Yankees)
CF Gus Bell (Reds)
RF Al Kaline (Tigers)
1B Dale Long (Pirates
1B Mickey Vernon (Senators)
C Ed Bailey (Reds)
3B George Kell (Orioles)
SS Roy McMillan (Reds)
P Billie Pierce (White Sox)
P Bob Friend (Pirates)
I used "Reds" to identify the Cincinnati players, but for a period of like 10 years that ends in 1958 the official name of the team was "Redlegs" and will be reflected in the broadcast
Additionally the following players were on the benches to start the game and I believe appeared as pinch hitters, relief pitchers, or defensive replacements at some point:
AL:
2B Billy Martin (Yankees), P Whitey Ford (Yankees), P Early Wynn (Indians)
NL:
P Warren Spahn (Braves), C Roy Campanella (Dodgers), CF Willie Mays (Giants), RF Hank Aaron (Braves), CF Duke Snider (Dodgers)
Every bolded name above was eventually elected into the baseball hall of fame. Throw in the two managers (Yankee skipper Casey Stengel for the AL, Dodgers manager Walter Alston for the NL) and a trio of NL players that were reserves but didn't play (Phillies P Robin Roberts, Cubs SS Ernie Banks, and Braves 3B Eddie Mathews) and that's 20 eventual Cooperstown members at this game, 15 of which are involved in the action.
As far as I know the game broadcast is complete and clocks in at a fairly brisk 2 hours and 15 minutes or so. So it could be a nice listening alternative tonight with no Jays to watch.
EDIT @ 7pm ET/4pm PT: It's actually not quite complete. It has no pre-game natter and starts 1 pitch into the top of the 1st inning, with the first call being the second pitch to Johnny Temple. But that's close enough. The audio quality sounds quite good though.
Thanks to the posters who have liked this project in the past and continue to provide motivation and an audience for it now:
@Da Cool Rula, @MS, @HockeyThoughts , @the valiant effort, & @td_ice
If you like these posts and want to see more and be alerted when they go up, like this post or quote/respond to it and I'll mark you down for future inclusion.
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