Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v4 |Mon, Jun 17 | vs BOS | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Pivetta vs Kikuchi

[MK78]

They had averaged 91 wins over the past 3 years and the core players are still in their mid-20s. Yes, this is a bump in the road.

The Yankees didn't start selling off Judge and Gleyber Torres when they were shit last year.

The Jays don't need 'half a bloody team'. They need 2 power bats and re-affirmed belief and direction from the top of the organization. No team has above-average players signed long term at every position. By your definition the Dodgers need 'half a bloody team' because they are absolute shit at 2B, 3B, and all 3 OF positions for 2025 (and right now, really, too).

The Yankees had assets to trade for Soto to make an instant improvement. The Jays did not.

The Jays core is about to expire.

 

[MS]

The Yankees had assets to trade for Soto to make an instant improvement. The Jays did not.

The Jays core is about to expire.

If they've waited too long on signing Guerrero/Bichette and those guys are going to force their way out, then the firings should go right up to Shapiro.

However, right now we have zero indications that that's the case.

The Yankees traded one good pitching prospect in Drew Thorpe (top 50-ish rated, similar-ish to Tiedemann) for Soto plus a bunch of middling assets they smartly sold high on. We could have found a way to make something close to that deal.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I can understand lotto tickets for Kikuchi/Garcia but there likely has to be a balance of imminent and distant value for them.

That Gausman/Jansen deal is kinda crazy. A 1B in A ball and a pitcher with a dead shoulder?

Vlad + Romano for Dominguez might be obtainable value-wise but I’m not sure either team would be interested in discussing a deal of this magnitude.

I don't know about "crazy." Jano is a free agent who always gets hurt. Gausman is 34 and on the decline, signed for 2 more years at 23 million per. I could have picked higher ranked players from their system but these are the players I would want (outside of Chourio) based on how I project them. You could switch Velasquez out for Chourio but imo Cleveland isn't moving him. They'd more easily trade Delauter or Manzardo.

 

[Kurtz]

They had averaged 91 wins over the past 3 years and the core players are still in their mid-20s. Yes, this is a bump in the road.

The Yankees didn't start selling off Judge and Gleyber Torres when they were shit last year.

The Jays don't need 'half a bloody team'. They need 2 power bats and re-affirmed belief and direction from the top of the organization. No team has above-average players signed long term at every position. By your definition the Dodgers need 'half a bloody team' because they are absolute shit at 2B, 3B, and all 3 OF positions for 2025 (and right now, really, too).

The Yankees had a better farm than we do, and they can spend their way out of most problems. They can pick up a Soto on a whim, something we can only dream about. We are not the Yankees.

"Re-affirmed belief and direction" are meaningless platitudes. 2 power bats is what we needed in the off-season, and we didn't get it. In the upcoming off-season, we still need those 2 bats, plus a couple of additional starting players, and we'll also need to rebuild almost our entire rotation and bullpen.

Baltimore, Boston and Tampa have some of the highest rated farm teams in the game and better, younger major leaguers already on the roster. Yankees are the Yankees.

Who are our foundational players in the mid 20's? Bo is too competitive to re-sign with a losing roster, he's a goner. Vlad will stay if we offer him the biggest contract, and there's Varsho. Who am I forgetting? Babe?


This is not the Leafs - this Jays team doesn't have a bunch of young superstars we can retool around. It's a wasteland. This reminds me more of the Raptors two seasons ago - a team that should have blown it up and tanked for a generational player in Wemby, but instead traded picks to keep going for it and ended up wasting assets and pointlessly delaying the rebuild by 2 years.

 

[MS]

The Yankees had a better farm than we do, and they can spend their way out of most problems. They can pick up a Soto on a whim, something we can only dream about. We are not the Yankees.

"Re-affirmed belief and direction" are meaningless platitudes. 2 power bats is what we needed in the off-season, and we didn't get it. In the upcoming off-season, we still need those 2 bats, plus a couple of additional starting players, and we'll also need to rebuild almost our entire rotation and bullpen.

Baltimore, Boston and Tampa have some of the highest rated farm teams in the game and better, younger major leaguers already on the roster. Yankees are the Yankees.

Who are our foundational players in the mid 20's? Bo is too competitive to re-sign with a losing roster, he's a goner. Vlad will stay if we offer him the biggest contract, and there's Varsho. Who am I forgetting? Babe?


This is not the Leafs - this Jays team doesn't have a bunch of young superstars we can retool around. It's a wasteland. This reminds me more of the Raptors two seasons ago - a team that should have blown it up and tanked for a generational player in Wemby, but instead traded picks to keep going for it and ended up wasting assets and pointlessly delaying the rebuild by 2 years.

IF both of those guys are forcing their way out, then there will be no choice, sure. And again - if that happens Shapiro should be fired, not just Atkins because to end up in that position in 2024 after where we were at in 2021-22 would be a disaster of unprecedented proportions.

Right now there are no indications that that is the case, and the team should be (and most definitely is) 100% planning on continuing to build around those players.

And again - we could have done the Soto package.

 

[Kurtz]

And again - we could have done the Soto package.

I mean, there's a lot of things we could have done.

We could have traded for Soto, we could have signed JD Martinez for less money than we gave Turner, we could have brought back Teo instead of KK, we could have attempted the reliever to starter experiment with Hicks instead of doing the same with Yariel Rodriguez, we could and should have fired Mattingly and Schneider...

Have we done those things, sure, the situation would be different and maybe a retool would be a reasonable option.

But we didn't, and now we're screwed and we need to accept the reality of the situation going forward. This is not a division where you can look past all of those mistakes and just keep chugging on.

 

[trellaine201]

Looking good again.

 

[MK78]

2nd/3rd nobody out.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Looking good again.

2nd and 3rd, nobody out.

2nd/3rd nobody out.

2nd and 3rd, nobody out.

 

[MK78]

Tied game 2-2

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Can we just move on from this S-Show.

 

[henryasteroidlionnet]

What a SHATSHOW!

 

[canucksfan]

Coming into tonight's game, Blue Jays starting lineup had 3 players above .700 OPS. On the other hand, the Orioles have 8, only Mullins is below .700.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Consistent offense.
Obviously not a part of the Jays future.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

WAR is wins above replacement.

We need WinsAboveContract. Where players are evaluated on their performance relative to their contract.

 

[Anthrax442]

Wow, bottom 5th and not losing yet

 

[canucksfan]

This is crazy

 

[dredeye]

I'm with you on the selling part, but not on the reload part. There's no point.

To compete, we'd need to build almost an entire team out of free agency - we'd need a starting 3B, 2B, LF, RF, DH, C. Even if Schneider takes over fulltime in LF or 2B, that's 5 positions you have to fill.

Assuming we ship out Romano and Garcia, you'd also have to fill the closer and setup roles.

Assuming Gausman and Bassitt are shipped out and Kikuchi leaves, that's also 4 starting pitcher positions that we'd need to fill...but really 5 or 6 since you need more than 5 capable starters.

Since we won't be getting much, if any, help from the farm, you're talking about acquiring more than half an entire roster through free agency. That's an impossible task.

Might as well accept the reality of the situation - we need to blow up the team completely, including trading Bo, Vlad and Berrios. Though we can wait till the offseason to trade these 3, hopefully with a better GM making those deals.

I didn't mean next off season we just sign every free agent and voila. I mean we start putting fresh pieces in place to build off of. I do hope we re up Jano.

I see it like this as we can't and won't trade every pitcher this year. You move Kikuchi for sure who should bring in one or two solid prospects. I'd also look to move Gausman for the reasons stated earlier. That cripples our rotation for the remainder of the year which is a bit of a problem. Berrios and Bassitt you keep and move next deadline if needed. Bassitt for sure at the next deadline. I'm sure we'd just either take on a bad contract pitcher that's expiring for the rest of this season in one of the deals we make or we grab one off of waivers later. I'd also look at Romano who will also return some solid assets. Garcia I'd like to re up as we will need some decent bullpen pieces if we can't get it done then move him and should get a good piece back for him.

You move Jano if unsigned who should net a good return. I'd move Biggio for what will likely be something like a pen arm with some team control. KK should be wanted for defensive depth somewhere but that return will be about nothing, Turner/Vogelbach if anyone wants them otherwise you just release them and give every at bat to Martinez, Barger and Horwitz the rest of the way. You move Biggio for what will be some unexciting bullpen arm with control I'm sure for next year. You then build around what's left. If by some miracle you move Springer but I doubt that's happening.

2025

Schneider LF
Varsho CF
Springer/Barger RF (Springer hopefully 4th outfielder)
IKF 3B
Bichette SS
Clemente/Martinez 2B
Guerrero 1B
Kirk C Jansen maybe
Horwitz DH

Rotation

Berrios
Manoah
Bassitt
Francis
Tiederman (not likely because if he doesn't start a lot the rest of the way he won't have enough innings

bullpen

Pop
Garcia (maybe)
Pearson
Cabrera
Green (they could also trade him) I don't think he'll ever stay healthy
Mayza
Pop
Richards

Not the sexiest but adding to that is not as doom and gloom as you might think. Also just reading on mlbtr that Jansen being the top of the catching class as the only real starter available they are saying if he stays healthy he could be in the Contreras 87 million range from 2 years ago. I'm not sure how I feel about that but he is great for sure.

 

[MS]

If the team was better I’d be incensed about the umping in that IKF AB.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

UFAs age contract

== will be pricey ==
Yusei Kikuchi 33 3 yrs/$36M (22-24)
Yimi García 33 3 yrs/$16M (22-24)

== inexpensive ==
Trevor Richards 31 1 yr/$2.15M (24)

== Need him ==
Danny Jansen 29 1 yr/$5.2M (24) $5.2M

== Likely NOT to sign ==
Justin Turner 39 1 yr/$13M (24) $13M
Kevin Kiermaier 34 1 yr/$10.5M (24)
Daniel Vogelbach 31 1 yr/$2.0M (24)

 

[HamiltonNHL]

== 2026 UFAs ==
Chris Bassitt 35 3 yrs/$63M (23-25) $22M $22M FA
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 1 yr/$19.9M (24) $19.9M Arb FA
Bo Bichette 26 3 yrs/$33.6M (23-25) $12.08M $17.58M FA
Chad Green 33 3 yrs/$23.25M (23-25) $10.5M $10.5M FA
Isiah Kiner-Falefa 2 yrs/$15M (24-25) $7.5M $7.5M FA
Jordan Romano 31 1 yr/$7.75M (24) $7.75M Arb FA

Erik Swanson 30 1 yr/$2.75M (24) $2.75M Arb FA
Cavan Biggio 29 1 yr/$4.21M (24) $4.21M Arb FA
Tim Mayza 32 1 yr/$3.59M (24) $3.59M Arb FA
Génesis Cabrera 27 1 yr/$1.51M (24) $1.51M Arb FA

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Such a struggle to get anything going offensively. Typical

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I figured Blue Jays were going to be an expensive .500 team this year.

The stats show they really are a .500 club.

.499 to be exact.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Bo's bat was 2 feet away from the ball.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Jays payroll ($230) is OVER double that of the Orioles (113).

Jays offence (in order)
- walks
- wild pitches
- hand waving.