Prospect Info: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

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evnted

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If Iginla falls to 10OA (hard to imagine that happening UNLESS Calgary drafts a D-man), I wonder what Fitz would do if staring down a situation that is Iginla vs Helenius vs MBN. The kid is a tremendous prospect but we aren’t talking about him as much as some other prospects. I would be thrilled to draft him and I think he’d work very well with Hughes.
tij would be my pick (and my gut is tom's too), tho i know that might not be the most popular take here. obviously, none of the options are wrong, all three of those players would be incredible adds for us, but tij is the only one i personally lean a more top 6 (rather than top 9) projection w the caveat being he's just further from it

iginla certainly has the best overall offensive toolkit of the bunch. not at helenius's level of foresight on the puck, but better than mbn with his playmaking game and how he manipulates defenders. not at mbn's level of puck dominance and effectiveness in battles, but better than helenius in terms of intensity on the puck and driving scoring opportunities. essentially, i see him as the best of both worlds (in terms of what helenius/mbn bring) while still offering the most balanced offensive package and greatest developmental trajectory

i think theres one other scenario where he hits 10, and thats if lindstrom falls, too. doubt flames wanna pass on tij, but that might be too great of a prospect to turn down. reason id even entertain this as a possibility is that the rhetoric around lindstrom at the combine has been a bit...off imo. his agent had previously assured everyone (through multiple media outlets) that he was fine and would be ready to test, but his participation ended up being fairly limited, and the discussion at the combine was hes "trending in the right direction" which is not represenative of how things were being discussed weeks ago. other thing is, this is the first time im personally reading/hearing about teams questioning the players projection in general. look, im first in line to say i dont think hes a slam dunk center for example, but after weeks and weeks of the player only ever seeming to fall due to injury/lack of viewings, the instant the combine started its now more than just health supposedly giving teams pause. maybe im totally reading into things but historically speaking i dont think its off base to think these types of snippets could have legs
 

The Wumpus

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StevenToddIves

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If Iginla falls to 10OA (hard to imagine that happening UNLESS Calgary drafts a D-man), I wonder what Fitz would do if staring down a situation that is Iginla vs Helenius vs MBN. The kid is a tremendous prospect but we aren’t talking about him as much as some other prospects. I would be thrilled to draft him and I think he’d work very well with Hughes.
I think the only reason we're not talking so much about Iginla is that none of us believe in our hearts that Calgary will pass him up if he's available at #9 overall.
 

Edmonton East

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I'll still be shocked if they actually pick at 10oa. Fitz knows his job is in jeopardy if they miss the playoffs again, so I'd expect short term decisions. Heck, we already started to see it with the mind numbingly stupid Allen trade (made zero sense considering Kahk trade...who is a UFA, was cheaper, and more potential upside).

I don't expect it moved for a goalie though. As I've said repeatedly, that'd be nuts asset management considering the state of this roster and the NHL in 2024. The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6.

Recent obvious examples: Hyman with Oilers, Reinhart and Verhaeghe+ with Panthers

Easier said than done, but I expect Fitz to at least take a swing this offseason: material trade including 10oa+ for a top 6 FWD....ideally a young 2/3 C with room to grow to give the lineup some versatility/depth. Palat and Haula are not full time top 6 players on a serious team. Mercer had a horrific season and Holtz is still a question mark.

If they don't materially improve the top 6/9 this offseason, including a 2/3 center or at least utility center, they are 100% reliant on Holtz and Mercer breakout/rebound + near perfect forward health. Good luck with that. Hard to do through UFA alone because NJ isn't tax friendly and general overpayment needed.
 
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My3Sons

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I'll still be shocked if they actually pick at 10oa. Fitz knows his job is in jeopardy if they miss the playoffs again, so I'd expect short term decisions. Heck, we already started to see it with the mind numbingly stupid Allen trade (made zero sense considering Kahk trade...who is a UFA, was cheaper, and more potential upside).

I don't expect it moved for a goalie though. As I've said repeatedly, that'd be nuts asset management considering the state of this roster and the NHL in 2024. The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6.

Recent obvious examples: Hyman with Oilers, Reinhart and Verhaeghe+ with Panthers

Easier said than done, but I expect Fitz to at least take a swing this offseason: material trade including 10oa+ for a top 6 FWD....ideally a young 2/3 C with room to grow to give the lineup some versatility/depth. Palat and Haula are not full time top 6 players on a serious team. Mercer had a horrific season and Holtz is still a question mark.

If they don't materially improve the top 6/9 this offseason, including a 2/3 center or at least utility center, they are 100% reliant on Holtz and Mercer breakout/rebound + near perfect forward health. Good luck with that. Hard to do through UFA alone because NJ isn't tax friendly and general overpayment needed.
You hit the nail on the head about player additions in my view. Find the guys who have not broken out or who need to redeem themselves and trade for them. Why pay for a player’s success with another team if you don’t have to?
 
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bossram

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I think the only reason we're not talking so much about Iginla is that none of us believe in our hearts that Calgary will pass him up if he's available at #9 overall.
I honestly don't think Calgary will pick Tij. It's way too much pressure. Setting the kid up for failure before he even plays for the team. You can't heap that on a teenager.
 

StevenToddIves

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I'll still be shocked if they actually pick at 10oa. Fitz knows his job is in jeopardy if they miss the playoffs again, so I'd expect short term decisions. Heck, we already started to see it with the mind numbingly stupid Allen trade (made zero sense considering Kahk trade...who is a UFA, was cheaper, and more potential upside).

I don't expect it moved for a goalie though. As I've said repeatedly, that'd be nuts asset management considering the state of this roster and the NHL in 2024. The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6.

Recent obvious examples: Hyman with Oilers, Reinhart and Verhaeghe+ with Panthers

Easier said than done, but I expect Fitz to at least take a swing this offseason: material trade including 10oa+ for a top 6 FWD....ideally a young 2/3 C with room to grow to give the lineup some versatility/depth. Palat and Haula are not full time top 6 players on a serious team. Mercer had a horrific season and Holtz is still a question mark.

If they don't materially improve the top 6/9 this offseason, including a 2/3 center or at least utility center, they are 100% reliant on Holtz and Mercer breakout/rebound + near perfect forward health. Good luck with that. Hard to do through UFA alone because NJ isn't tax friendly and general overpayment needed.
With all due respect, I couldn't disagree with much more of this. I'll unpack:

1) Devils are very unlikely to trade the #10 pick. Sure it's possible -- if Swayman or Brady Tkachuk are suddenly put on the market. But not with the names on the market now. There are literally no goalies out there who are appreciably better than Jake Allen and the class of UFA forwards are stronger than the guys on the trade market.

2) Fitzgerald's job is not in jeopardy. The NJ front office is not a bunch of reactionary fans banging the panic button like people on Twitter. None of the elite goalies in the league have changed organizations in three years, the only "good" goalie to do this was Adin Hill, who three years ago was an unwanted fringe player traded straight up for a 4th round pick. No one with any sense will blame Fitzgerald for not acquiring what is not available, and considering the dearth of talent at goalie league-wide, he's made several moves to try to fill the hole.

3) Who was the last young 2C to be traded by their team? These players are almost exclusively found in the draft. Looking at the cup finals, there's Barkov (3rd overall) and Lundell (12th overall), McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins (1st overall) and Draisaitl (3rd overall).

Let's go through the top 25 scoring centers in the league this year. In the top 3? ALL THREE are 1st overall picks -- McKinnon, McDavid and Matthews. In 4 through 7, we have 3 more top 3 picks and another 1st rounder (JT Miller, who is center-ish but still listed at the position). Overall, in the top 25, here's the list:

1st overall: 6
Top 5 overall: 4
Top 10 overall: 3
Later 1st Round: 8
2nd Round: 2 (Aho, O'Reilly)
3rd Round: 2 (Point, Trocheck)

And that's it.

Now, let's take a guess how many of these players have changed organizations in the past 4 years. The answer is three -- Kadri, Trocheck and O'Reilly. All were signed as UFAs.

Not one NHL center in the top 25 scoring centers have been traded in the past 4 years.

Now, of course Fitzgerald will need to move for a center this year -- NJ lost McLeod probably forever, leaving a huge hole behind Hischier and Hughes. But since the only way to get one of these is typically the UFA market, that's where I expect to see Fitzgerald look. Elias Lindholm would be a good fit, or maybe a lesser move for a Sean Monahan. But no, I don't see Fitzgerald getting fired for his failure to acquire Sidney Crosby.

Could the Devils swing a trade for a more traditional 3C? Sure, I would not be shocked if the Devils looked into a guy like Boone Jenner. But he's not costing #10 overall. But that would be a realistic move judging by Fitzgerald's MO.

I honestly don't think Calgary will pick Tij. It's way too much pressure. Setting the kid up for failure before he even plays for the team. You can't heap that on a teenager.
Luke Hughes looks ok so far.
 

Edmonton East

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With all due respect, I couldn't disagree with much more of this. I'll unpack:

1) Devils are very unlikely to trade the #10 pick. Sure it's possible -- if Swayman or Brady Tkachuk are suddenly put on the market. But not with the names on the market now. There are literally no goalies out there who are appreciably better than Jake Allen and the class of UFA forwards are stronger than the guys on the trade market.

2) Fitzgerald's job is not in jeopardy. The NJ front office is not a bunch of reactionary fans banging the panic button like people on Twitter. None of the elite goalies in the league have changed organizations in three years, the only "good" goalie to do this was Adin Hill, who three years ago was an unwanted fringe player traded straight up for a 4th round pick. No one with any sense will blame Fitzgerald for not acquiring what is not available, and considering the dearth of talent at goalie league-wide, he's made several moves to try to fill the hole.

3) Who was the last young 2C to be traded by their team? These players are almost exclusively found in the draft. Looking at the cup finals, there's Barkov (3rd overall) and Lundell (12th overall), McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins (1st overall) and Draisaitl (3rd overall).

Let's go through the top 25 scoring centers in the league this year. In the top 3? ALL THREE are 1st overall picks -- McKinnon, McDavid and Matthews. In 4 through 7, we have 3 more top 3 picks and another 1st rounder (JT Miller, who is center-ish but still listed at the position). Overall, in the top 25, here's the list:

1st overall: 6
Top 5 overall: 4
Top 10 overall: 3
Later 1st Round: 8
2nd Round: 2 (Aho, O'Reilly)
3rd Round: 2 (Point, Trocheck)

And that's it.

Now, let's take a guess how many of these players have changed organizations in the past 4 years. The answer is three -- Kadri, Trocheck and O'Reilly. All were signed as UFAs.

Not one NHL center in the top 25 scoring centers have been traded in the past 4 years.

Now, of course Fitzgerald will need to move for a center this year -- NJ lost McLeod probably forever, leaving a huge hole behind Hischier and Hughes. But since the only way to get one of these is typically the UFA market, that's where I expect to see Fitzgerald look. Elias Lindholm would be a good fit, or maybe a lesser move for a Sean Monahan. But no, I don't see Fitzgerald getting fired for his failure to acquire Sidney Crosby.

Could the Devils swing a trade for a more traditional 3C? Sure, I would not be shocked if the Devils looked into a guy like Boone Jenner. But he's not costing #10 overall. But that would be a realistic move judging by Fitzgerald's MO.


Luke Hughes looks ok so far.
1) not really worth addressing since the actual disagreement here is driven by #2

2) and this is where we just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us has a crystal ball. I say Fitz is afraid of missing the playoffs again, aware that could cost him his job, and the human condition makes it very likely he does whatever he can to win NOW. You don't agree with this, soooo not much to debate then. I'm not gonna convince you he's in trouble if they miss the playoffs again and you aren't gonna convince me he isn't (and isn't a bit concerned himself)

3) Think this is missing the point and intentionally making a silly strawman. It's very clear what my point is, even including examples, so your interpretation of what I said is disingenuous...at best.

What I said:
"The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6.

Recent obvious examples: Hyman with Oilers, Reinhart and Verhaeghe+ with Panthers

Easier said than done, but I expect Fitz to at least take a swing this offseason: material trade including 10oa+ for a top 6 FWD....ideally a young 2/3 C with room to grow to give the lineup some versatility/depth
. Palat and Haula are not full time top 6 players on a serious team. Mercer had a horrific season and Holtz is still a question mark.

If they don't materially improve the top 6/9 this offseason, including a 2/3 center or at least utility center, they are 100% reliant on Holtz and Mercer breakout/rebound + near perfect forward health. Good luck with that. Hard to do through UFA alone because NJ isn't tax friendly and general overpayment needed."
 

evnted

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Folks, i’m sad to report i’ve come all the way back to “maybe just take Cole Eiserman.” I mean what are we doing? Are we really gonna pass up the cost-controlled potential 30/40/50 goal scorer because he isn’t a defensive ace?
the projection concerns with eiserman extend well, well beyond the defensive side of things. i dont wanna go too hard on the player because his pure shooting ability really is immaculate, but this is only a collection of offensive complaints i have:

-difficulty finding space for scoring opportunities at even strength
-difficulty getting shots through traffic
-poor decisions to shoot/overshooting in general
-tunnel visioned playmaking game
-selfishness with the puck
-repeated misfires on passes (behind players, into skates, poor timing, etc.)
-lack of awareness in terms of where to place a pass/where a pass is coming from
-lack of anticipation and only plays to what he sees happening in front of him
-brute forced plays with the puck that arent in response to his immediate surroundings
-excessive flash/overhandling on the puck when attempting to drive by defenders
-selective physical play/forechecking game
-overall lack of pace/intensity if not actively driving a scoring opportunity
-overall predictability and lack of deception/manipulation/adaptability/problem solving

thats not even a comprehensive list, i just thought it was getting excessive and stopped. hes a 1st rounder but i wouldnt sniff him in lotto range

two additional points to make. 1) his shooting ability is so legitimately good that he can still burn me simply by virtue of goal scoring alone (although in the same breath, he wouldnt even be a draft pick if it werent for that), and 2) this is not a product of overscouting a well known name. that can definitely be a thing at times, but not in this case

goal scorers are exciting and eiserman seems like a goofy kid, i have no reason to cheer against him hitting/me being wrong. i even expect he'll be an elite college scorer. but if you could bottle every single projection concern about a goal scoring winger into one player, this is who you would get. and theres plenty of reason to argue that even if he does hit, he'll still be an extremely frustrating give and take player. eiserman is a really good gamble for another team picking lower than us
 

StevenToddIves

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1) not really worth addressing since the actual disagreement here is driven by #2

2) and this is where we just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us has a crystal ball. I say Fitz is afraid of missing the playoffs again, aware that could cost him his job, and the human condition makes it very likely he does whatever he can to win NOW. You don't agree with this, soooo not much to debate then. I'm not gonna convince you he's in trouble if they miss the playoffs again and you aren't gonna convince me he isn't (and isn't a bit concerned himself)

3) Think this is missing the point and intentionally making a silly strawman. It's very clear what my point is, even including examples, so your interpretation of what I said is disingenuous...at best.

What I said:
"The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6.

Recent obvious examples: Hyman with Oilers, Reinhart and Verhaeghe+ with Panthers

Easier said than done, but I expect Fitz to at least take a swing this offseason: material trade including 10oa+ for a top 6 FWD....ideally a young 2/3 C with room to grow to give the lineup some versatility/depth
. Palat and Haula are not full time top 6 players on a serious team. Mercer had a horrific season and Holtz is still a question mark.

If they don't materially improve the top 6/9 this offseason, including a 2/3 center or at least utility center, they are 100% reliant on Holtz and Mercer breakout/rebound + near perfect forward health. Good luck with that. Hard to do through UFA alone because NJ isn't tax friendly and general overpayment needed."
1. I haven't read anywhere that Fitzgerald's job is even remotely in jeopardy except for two to three panicking fans on social media and HFBoards. I'm not sure why this is being mentioned as a concern. His seat's not even lukewarm. He's generally regarded as one of the brighter new GMs in the NHL.

2. While Verhaeghe was indeed a rare "diamond in the rough" found by Florida, Hyman and Reinhart were far from this. Hyman was a 1st line forward signed to a 6 year $35 million deal. Reinhart was a former #3 overall pick traded for Buffalo's likely future starting goalie (Devon Levi) and a 1st round pick.

At 47 in the NHL, Verhaeghe was literally the ONLY "reclamation project" in the top 50 NHL scorers. The next highest would have to be Marchessault, at #56. After that? There's really no one else in the top 75.

So, again -- we're blaming Fitzgerald for not achieving an NHL rarity -- acquiring a star goalie or top 2 C or finding a star-quality player off the waiver wire. We might as well be saying Joe Sakic should be fired from Colorado for never drafting Jesper Bratt in the 6th round.

Look, I get I'm a draft guy. But if someone can't see the difference between trading a pick in the mid-20s once your team is already a contender and trading a pick you have in the top 10 because you're not yet a contender, I'm not sure it's even worth the breath to argue. We can go back in these threads and find me debating against trading the pick which turned into Jack Hughes for Jonas Brodin (no lie) and also debating against trading the pick which turned into Luke Hughes for Conor Garland (also no lie). Trading a shot at Zeev Buium or Sam Dickinson or Cayden Lindstrom or Ivan Demidov or even Konsta Helenius for Gustav Nyqvist or Lawson Crouse or Linus Ulmark or whomever is patently ridiculous.

Conversely -- trading Shakir Mukhamadullin and a 1st rounder for Timo Meier? Now THAT was a good deal, and as such I said it at the time. So, again -- if Brady Tkachuk or Jeremy Swayman hit the market (spoiler: they won't), we can revisit this.
 

My3Sons

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1) not really worth addressing since the actual disagreement here is driven by #2

2) and this is where we just have to agree to disagree. Neither of us has a crystal ball. I say Fitz is afraid of missing the playoffs again, aware that could cost him his job, and the human condition makes it very likely he does whatever he can to win NOW. You don't agree with this, soooo not much to debate then. I'm not gonna convince you he's in trouble if they miss the playoffs again and you aren't gonna convince me he isn't (and isn't a bit concerned himself)

3) Think this is missing the point and intentionally making a silly strawman. It's very clear what my point is, even including examples, so your interpretation of what I said is disingenuous...at best.

What I said:
"The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6.

Recent obvious examples: Hyman with Oilers, Reinhart and Verhaeghe+ with Panthers

Easier said than done, but I expect Fitz to at least take a swing this offseason: material trade including 10oa+ for a top 6 FWD....ideally a young 2/3 C with room to grow to give the lineup some versatility/depth
. Palat and Haula are not full time top 6 players on a serious team. Mercer had a horrific season and Holtz is still a question mark.

If they don't materially improve the top 6/9 this offseason, including a 2/3 center or at least utility center, they are 100% reliant on Holtz and Mercer breakout/rebound + near perfect forward health. Good luck with that. Hard to do through UFA alone because NJ isn't tax friendly and general overpayment needed."
You raised some good points. One thing that I think is just an unknown is your main point about Fitz's concern with missing the playoffs. I'm skeptical that ownership is leaning heavily on him. They have so many other toys to play with now that the NHL is almost an afterthought in terms of economic impact. They own two licenses to print money in an NFL and NBA team. I'm sue Crystal Palace is a cash cow as well. Ultimately, as long as Fitz doesn't make a dumb trade - like 10 for Markstrom or Ullmark, etc. it's not that critical a factor. I'd like to see the team make a good decision in adding a goalie and I agree with you that the trick is finding guys before they break out, not afterwards, but the values we've seen thrown around in the media are pretty lame for a top 10 pick. It's bordering on Anderson for Nemec so I'd just as soon make the pick and try to find value guys in trades or second day UFAs to fill out the roster.
 

Guadana

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Folks, i’m sad to report i’ve come all the way back to “maybe just take Cole Eiserman.” I mean what are we doing? Are we really gonna pass up the cost-controlled potential 30/40/50 goal scorer because he isn’t a defensive ace?
Because he isn't good at hockey and he will face a lot of problems with finding and creating chances on nhl level. He has a chance to be goal scorer in nhl, he has big chances to be negative player on the ice even with his scoring abilitie.

There are no productive players in NHL with Eiserman profile now. AM - best goal scorer of NHL is great two way player. He is great at scoring because he us goid shooter and good two way player in the same time.
 

StevenToddIves

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1. I haven't read anywhere that Fitzgerald's job is even remotely in jeopardy except for two to three panicking fans on social media and HFBoards. I'm not sure why this is being mentioned as a concern. His seat's not even lukewarm. He's generally regarded as one of the brighter new GMs in the NHL.

2. While Verhaeghe was indeed a rare "diamond in the rough" found by Florida, Hyman and Reinhart were far from this. Hyman was a 1st line forward signed to a 6 year $35 million deal. Reinhart was a former #3 overall pick traded for Buffalo's likely future starting goalie (Devon Levi) and a 1st round pick.

At 47 in the NHL, Verhaeghe was literally the ONLY "reclamation project" in the top 50 NHL scorers. The next highest would have to be Marchessault, at #56. After that? There's really no one else in the top 75.

So, again -- we're blaming Fitzgerald for not achieving an NHL rarity -- acquiring a star goalie or top 2 C or finding a star-quality player off the waiver wire. We might as well be saying Joe Sakic should be fired from Colorado for never drafting Jesper Bratt in the 6th round.

Look, I get I'm a draft guy. But if someone can't see the difference between trading a pick in the mid-20s once your team is already a contender and trading a pick you have in the top 10 because you're not yet a contender, I'm not sure it's even worth the breath to argue. We can go back in these threads and find me debating against trading the pick which turned into Jack Hughes for Jonas Brodin (no lie) and also debating against trading the pick which turned into Luke Hughes for Conor Garland (also no lie). Trading a shot at Zeev Buium or Sam Dickinson or Cayden Lindstrom or Ivan Demidov or even Konsta Helenius for Gustav Nyqvist or Lawson Crouse or Linus Ulmark or whomever is patently ridiculous.

Conversely -- trading Shakir Mukhamadullin and a 1st rounder for Timo Meier? Now THAT was a good deal, and as such I said it at the time. So, again -- if Brady Tkachuk or Jeremy Swayman hit the market (spoiler: they won't), we can revisit this.
I just went back and looked so I want to add to this by saying this:

Out of the top 75 scorers in the NHL this year? 52 were 1st round picks.

Or how about this:

Out of the top 35 scorers in the NHL this year, 18 were top 10 picks.

So, while I'm sure we'd be just a little better next year with Nick Schmaltz than a guy in Sweden or Finland or the NCAA, I'm willing to not repeatedly bash my head against the panic button.
 

RNCDevil

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Folks, i’m sad to report i’ve come all the way back to “maybe just take Cole Eiserman.” I mean what are we doing? Are we really gonna pass up the cost-controlled potential 30/40/50 goal scorer because he isn’t a defensive ace?
How about that kid who broke Steven Stamkos's Sarnia Sting scoring record. That's got to be a no-brainer, right?

I don't know who these cats are, but I dig their write-up.

I especially liked the scout's quote that every shift is a highlight reel. I know the Devils are not getting him, but I love this kid.

 

Guadana

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What a stupid sh1t. I wish more gms thinks this way. If they do, they absolutely deserve to draft their way. Go get Iginla, Sennecke, Parekh. Yakemchuk and Catton before Demidov. All of them are under control, better proven etc. If Michkov wasn't drafted by 6 teams, why Demidov can't be not drafted by 9 teams? He is less proven than Michkov was. Let's do it!
 

Edmonton East

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1. I haven't read anywhere that Fitzgerald's job is even remotely in jeopardy except for two to three panicking fans on social media and HFBoards. I'm not sure why this is being mentioned as a concern. His seat's not even lukewarm. He's generally regarded as one of the brighter new GMs in the NHL.

2. While Verhaeghe was indeed a rare "diamond in the rough" found by Florida, Hyman and Reinhart were far from this. Hyman was a 1st line forward signed to a 6 year $35 million deal. Reinhart was a former #3 overall pick traded for Buffalo's likely future starting goalie (Devon Levi) and a 1st round pick.

At 47 in the NHL, Verhaeghe was literally the ONLY "reclamation project" in the top 50 NHL scorers. The next highest would have to be Marchessault, at #56. After that? There's really no one else in the top 75.

So, again -- we're blaming Fitzgerald for not achieving an NHL rarity -- acquiring a star goalie or top 2 C or finding a star-quality player off the waiver wire. We might as well be saying Joe Sakic should be fired from Colorado for never drafting Jesper Bratt in the 6th round.

Look, I get I'm a draft guy. But if someone can't see the difference between trading a pick in the mid-20s once your team is already a contender and trading a pick you have in the top 10 because you're not yet a contender, I'm not sure it's even worth the breath to argue. We can go back in these threads and find me debating against trading the pick which turned into Jack Hughes for Jonas Brodin (no lie) and also debating against trading the pick which turned into Luke Hughes for Conor Garland (also no lie). Trading a shot at Zeev Buium or Sam Dickinson or Cayden Lindstrom or Ivan Demidov or even Konsta Helenius for Gustav Nyqvist or Lawson Crouse or Linus Ulmark or whomever is patently ridiculous.

Conversely -- trading Shakir Mukhamadullin and a 1st rounder for Timo Meier? Now THAT was a good deal, and as such I said it at the time. So, again -- if Brady Tkachuk or Jeremy Swayman hit the market (spoiler: they won't), we can revisit this.
Yawn. Strawman after strawman after strawman. You are almost there. Just say you are a Fitz fan and the draft is your life (which is appreciated, no sarcasm), so you can't be remotely objective.

1) You continuing to act like it's some farfetched, absurd notion that Fitz may be feeling the pressure to avoid missing the playoffs again next season is laughably bizarre. I said we should prob just let this go, but you wanna keep going.

2) You continue to make a nonsensical argument here that has next to nothing to do with my original post. It's really weird. I'm not anti draft. As I've said repeatedly on here, I don't think this team is only 1 player away from contending and I am also against spending material assets on any highly coveted goalie. For the third time now, all I'm saying is I think this pick+ could get moved for a forward given the current state of the roster and Fitz' trying to avoid back to back playoff misses with a young core and his hand selected coach. How you are so defiant and definitive in your belief Fitz wouldn't face any heat in this hypothetical outcome nor does he feel significant pressure to make the playoffs this year, is a mystery to me. The Devs were the biggest disappointment in the league last year vs expectations, yet you find it unreasonable Fitz could be feeling some added pressure.

As for the rest of your rambling, I don't even know who you are arguing with. Uhh yea, of course top scorers are more likely to be former first round picks. Okay....so....how does that pertain to anything I posted originally? Are you trying to overvalue a 1st rounder and act as if they are a lock to be key contributors within a few years? Because if so, there are quite a few players the Devs (and every other team) have drafted in the 1st round over the last 2 decades that would like a word. Also, if that is your point, it's a hypocritical argument....a #10 pick is like gold!!!!, while also saying the Devs couldn't package it for an impact player this season. Man, those other NHL GMs must be really dumb. What are they doing?!?!

Anyways, as I said originally and it SHOULD be common sense: The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6. You apparently disagree with this as well, which is baffling.

Current SCF, just sticking with my examples earlier:
  • Hyman - you hand waive away because he got 7yr/$5.5aav....uhm, what? That has zero to do with anything. The actual point is he meshed so well that they unlocked a ppg player who just potted 50+ goals. That type of production for YOUR team is worth way more than that contract. Not debatable. This is what good, contending GMs do in a cap environment. Even more important when lacking a geographical and/or tax advantage.
  • Reinhart - again, mentioning his draft position has literally nothing to do with the conversation. If anything though, I suppose it would help my argument, which makes you bringing it up amusing at least. He was still only acquired for a likely late 1st a full year out and a great prospect at the least predictable/longest dev curve position in the NHL. Yet you think it's IMPOSSIBLE Fitz could get an impact 2nd liner or a young 3rd liner with upside with the 10oa THIS YEAR+. GASP, TOTAL FANTASY LAND STUFF.

I could go on and on, as demonstrated. :laugh: Look at nearly every serious contender in the past 15 years. Look at Boston and the moves they made (and still do. see: our beloved Zacha ironically). Look at both expansion teams, not even only Vegas. So many guys that vaulted production and overall play when given the opportunity or system change. Good GMs find these players. They make fair hockey trades too, like the Meier trade. But that isn't all they do.
 
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StevenToddIves

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Yawn. Strawman after strawman after strawman. You are almost there. Just say you are a Fitz fan and the draft is your life (which is appreciated, no sarcasm), so you can't be remotely objective.

1) You continuing to act like it's some farfetched, absurd notion that Fitz may be feeling the pressure to avoid missing the playoffs again next season is laughably bizarre. I said we should prob just let this go, but you wanna keep going.

2) You continue to make a nonsensical argument here that has next to nothing to do with my original post. It's really weird. I'm not anti draft. As I've said repeatedly on here, I don't think this team is only 1 player away from contending and I am also against spending material assets on any highly coveted goalie. For the third time now, all I'm saying is I think this pick+ could get moved for a forward given the current state of the roster and Fitz' trying to avoid back to back playoff misses with a young core and his hand selected coach. How you are so defiant and definitive in your belief Fitz wouldn't face any heat in this hypothetical outcome nor does he feel significant pressure to make the playoffs this year, is a mystery to me. The Devs were the biggest disappointment in the league last year vs expectations, yet you find it unreasonable Fitz could be feeling some added pressure.

As for the rest of your rambling, I don't even know who you are arguing with. Uhh yea, of course top scorers are more likely to be former first round picks. Okay....so....how does that pertain to anything I posted originally? Are you trying to overvalue a 1st rounder and act as if they are a lock to be key contributors within a few years? Because if so, there are quite a few players the Devs (and every other team) have drafted in the 1st round over the last 2 decades that would like a word. Also, if that is your point, it's a hypocritical argument....a #10 pick is like gold!!!!, while also saying the Devs couldn't package it for an impact player this season. Man, those other NHL GMs must be really dumb. What are they doing?!?!

Anyways, as I said originally and it SHOULD be common sense: The actual good GMs find guys being mis or under utilized by their current team, so they get them at a discount before they level up their game. Fitz has yet to do that with a single forward, which is absurd considering this team's alleged strength in its top 6. You apparently disagree with this as well, which is baffling.

Current SCF, just sticking with my examples earlier:
  • Hyman - you hand waive away because he got 7yr/$5.5aav....uhm, what? That has zero to do with anything. The actual point is he meshed so well that they unlocked a ppg player who just potted 50+ goals. That type of production for YOUR team is worth way more than that contract. Not debatable. This is what good, contending GMs do in a cap environment. Even more important when lacking a geographical and/or tax advantage.
  • Reinhart - again, mentioning his draft position has literally nothing to do with the conversation. If anything though, I suppose it would help my argument, which makes you bringing it up amusing at least. He was still only acquired for a likely late 1st a full year out and a great prospect at the least predictable/longest dev curve position in the NHL. Yet you think it's IMPOSSIBLE Fitz could get an impact 2nd liner or a young 3rd liner with upside with the 10oa THIS YEAR+. GASP, TOTAL FANTASY LAND STUFF.

I could go on and on, as demonstrated. :laugh: Look at nearly every serious contender in the past 15 years. Look at Boston and the moves they made (and still do. see: our beloved Zacha ironically). Look at both expansion teams, not even only Vegas. So many guys that vaulted production and overall play when given the opportunity or system change. Good GMs find these players. They make fair hockey trades too, like the Meier trade. But that isn't all they do.
My man, there's really no need to get upset.

I'm really trying to see your side of things. You are saying that Fitzgerald is very likely to trade the #10 overall pick for a top 6 forward because he wants to keep his job.

I replied by saying this is silly because the forwards available on the trade market are not as good as the top 6 forwards the Devils have. One of the reasons Fitzgerald's job is absolutely not in jeopardy is because he doesn't do stupid stuff like trade a top 10 pick for 3rd liners who might have 2nd line upside given the right situation.

You replied with... well, whatever this post was. It's all good. I'm sure we'll deal #10 straight up for Josh Anderson and then all those Canadiens fans can say they were right all along.
 

Devils731

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NHL Draft Confidential: What scouts and executives think of Celebrini, Demidov and more

The theme from scouts and executives is that after Celebrini there is little consensus going on.

The good news for the Devils, there is little consensus because they love different players while only really liking others. The lack of consensus comes from too much to like the first 8-12 guys, not too little.

Yeah, this was a very interesting read as the feedback was all over the place. But like you said, it's a group of 8-12 guys that the scouts and execs all seem to like to varying degrees.

Lot of varying opinions on the order of the top defensemen and the best forwards after Celebrini. Generally speaking, there were concerns about Eiserman and the goalies as a whole.

Given our draft spot, the responses to the questions below seem most relevant:

After Celebrini, the big story in this draft has been around the defensemen. After a historically poor defense class in the 2023 NHL Draft, this is shaping into one of the better defense groups in recent memory. It’s possible to see five or even six defensemen picked in the top 10.

So who is the best defenseman of the group? Many scouts think it’s Michigan State’s Artyom Levshunov, who is 6-2, mobile and had a huge freshman season, or the 6-7, highly athletic Anton Silayev, who played very well for Torpedo in the KHL. But Sam Dickinson from London who is 6-3 and gets a lot of love. Denver’s Zeev Buium and Saginaw’s Zayne Parekh put up monster offensive numbers and Calgary’s 6-3 defender Carter Yakemchuk got a lot of love too. I asked scouts who their preference would be.

Scout 1:
“Parekh could be the next Quinn Hughes, the next Erik Karlsson if he hits. He has special skill and hockey sense. The other guys in this draft may be safer — they’ll give you 22 minutes a night. You could miss with him for sure, but he could be special.”

Scout 2: “Silayev is a freak. He has star written all over him. If he were in North America he would have challenged Celebrini all season for the No. 1 prospect.”

Scout 3: “Yakemchuk can be a No. 1 defenseman. He’s big, mean, athletic, and has a ton of natural offensive abilities. He’s a guy you build a winner around.”

Executive 1: “On pure talent, it would be Silayev, but I don’t know if I could call that name given the KHL risks as opposed to one of the other studs available. Levshunov has everything you want in a potential No. 1 defenseman. He’s dominated college hockey after being so good as an underage player in the USHL.”

Executive 2: “Levshunov. Worst case scenario you’re getting a better-skating John Klingberg. Best case you’re getting a star.”

Executive 3: “Silayev is so tantalizing. He’s such a good skater for a guy his size. He’s very physical. He can move pucks. He has superstar potential. You can’t find someone like him other than the draft.”

Scout 4: “Levshunov is the guy. Don’t overthink it. He’s tall, mobile, very smart, can run a pro power play, has some bite in him. He’s going to be the No. 2 or 3 overall pick.”

Scout 5: “Yakemchuk scored 30 goals, is 6-3 and skates well. I’ve rarely seen him have a bad game and often he makes an impact.”

Scout 6: “Dickinson doesn’t have a miss factor. I think worst case you’re getting a top-four-minute-eating big defenseman who can fly. If he really hits and there’s some offense the high side is an impactful NHL defender.”

Executive 4: “Levshunov is as complete as you can get. He was a dominant college player from the get-go. He has no weakness. He was playing big minutes at big times. Silayev is right there with him although not as much offense and Parekh/Yakemchuk are behind those two for me.”

Scout 7: “It would be real close for me between Levshunov, Yakemchuk and Dickinson, and depending what day I wake up I have a different one at the top. I’ve entertained Buium as well. Silayev looks great but we never saw him live so it’s tough to feel confident in putting a guy that high on your list.”

Scout 8: “I only watched the players in USA, but I keep seeing Levshunov ranked very high, and I didn’t even think he was the best defense prospect in college. Buium was way better when I saw him. Levshunov is very good, but I thought Buium was an impactful college defenseman all season.”

Scout 9: “I have the least concerns about Yakemchuk. He’s consistently competitive and he creates a ton of offense. I feel he defends better than Levshunov, who would be No. 2 for me.”

Scout 10: “It came down to Buium or Levshunov for me and I leaned Buium. Levshunov started off great, but I didn’t love his postseason play. Buium was impactful from the get-go and right into the important games as well.”

Executive 5: “I’m between Buium or Parekh and gave the edge to Parekh. Buium defends better, but he doesn’t have the type of hockey sense Parekh does. That’s not to take away from Buium — he’s super smart, he makes a lot of plays — but Parekh sees the game at a whole different level.”

Scout 11: “It’s clearly Levshunov. He looks like a future star. He is going No. 2 to Chicago or No. 3 to Anaheim, no questions asked.”


Just as there is a lack of consensus on the best defenseman in the draft, there is a lack of consensus on who is the next best forward in this draft after Celebrini. You have the three WHL forwards in Spokane’s Berkly Catton, who is dynamic but 5-foot-10, the competitive goal scorer Tij Iginla, and the 6-3 center in Lindstrom who can fly and is highly physical. There is the dynamic 5-11 SKA winger Ivan Demidov. And then you have 6-2 winger Beckett Sennecke, who was lights out in the OHL playoffs.

Scout 1:
“With Lindstrom, best case you’re getting a legit No. 1 center. I think even if you miss on Lindstrom and he’s a third-line center, he’s a type of third-line center a GM is ecstatic to have, the kind that winning teams have in the playoffs.”

Executive 1: “I do have a concern on Lindstrom that you’re just getting a second-line two-way guy. His tools are outstanding but I don’t see the high-end skill and sense to score a lot in the NHL. They’re small but my lean is to Catton or Demidov because they have so much offense.”

Executive 2: “Catton looks like a can’t-miss top-line forward. He could be a first-line center. I don’t say this lightly about 5-10 forwards, because so few of them can stay in the middle, but I’d be surprised if he wasn’t a 1C in the NHL.”

Executive 3: “I’d take Catton or Iginla. They’re highly skilled guys who compete, play fast, put the puck in the net and were excellent in the WHL. Give me a break where all the lists have Demidov. He’s lighting up the MHL, but that league is so bad. Michkov was great versus men over there and went seventh.”

Executive 4: “Iginla has a lot of pro elements to his game. He’s super skilled and can score, but he’s detailed, he competes hard, he gets offense in the tough areas of the ice. He’s not that big yet, but you look at the dad and you’re hoping when Tij fills out he’s going to be a handful to deal with. The trajectory he’s on is pointed straight up as well.”

Scout 2: “It’s Lindstrom for us. You may be getting a second-line center, but he’s a second-line center who plays super hard, is a great skater and your coaches will be able to rely on.”

Executive 5: “I can see the arguments for Catton and Sennecke but I’d pick Demidov because he’s slightly more dynamic offensively than the other guys. Sennecke has more of a power element. Catton is a complete player offensively — he has no weaknesses — but Demidov can make so many plays and is high-end with the puck. Demidov doesn’t lead with speed, but is great east-west although he doesn’t skate like the other two. Lindstrom would be fourth for me.”

Executive 6: “The body of work would go to Demidov. The pure physical tools would make you pick Lindstrom. The best player in the last six months would be Sennecke, and he would be my lean.”

Executive 7: “The disrespect I see for Catton is crazy. He scored 110 points, Captain Canada at the Hlinka where he dominated, is a dynamic play-driving center. If he were two inches taller he’s the no questions asked No. 2 pick.”

Executive 8: “Demidov. He’s just dynamic, he’s the clear No. 2 forward for me. Then it would be between Lindstrom or Iginla.”

Scout 3: “Demidov has a chance to be the next great Russian star in the NHL. He’s a game breaker.”

Scout 4: “I would probably take the big guy in Lindstrom. The skating, the heaviness, the offense, it’s all very appealing. I like Catton and Iginla but I don’t see special small-guy traits in them.”

Scout 5: “It’s clearly Sennecke for me. He has the potential to be a game breaker. He’s big, he’s fast, he has elite skill and processing, even has some bite in him. I get the concerns on his production, but you watch the last 2-3 months of his season, he looked like a star.”
 
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