HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

Who do you want at #5?

  • Tij Iginla

    Votes: 209 49.5%
  • Cole Eiserman

    Votes: 14 3.3%
  • Berkly Catton

    Votes: 91 21.6%
  • Konsta Helenius

    Votes: 13 3.1%
  • Beckett Sennecke

    Votes: 76 18.0%
  • Zayne Parekh

    Votes: 19 4.5%

  • Total voters
    422

Archijerej

Registered User
Jan 17, 2005
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Poland
Reading the discussion it seems this year's draft is going to be the most exiting in recent years.

The biggest question for me, though, is this: if we draft Buium, are we grown up enough not to send him any Auschwitz jokes?
 
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Garbageyuk

Registered User
Dec 19, 2016
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While the other 3, and I'm a fan of the other 3....have deficiencies that he doesn't have. Luchanko doesn't strike me as a guy who could be top 6. Same with Boisvert who could be a formidable No3 C. Greentree? Skating. IQ. But we have to respect his points.
Yes, I agree, and that’s what I’m saying; neither does Sennecke. He’s in there with these type of guys. Again, what has he done to separate himself from them? You’re going to have to give me more than a hunch or gut feeling, something tangible.

As for your point about Sennecke’s growth/frame, it doesn’t matter all that much to me because he doesn’t play at all physical, and he’s not good defensively. Thats not his game, and his extra size isn’t going to help the way he plays. Like you said, he plays like a 5’10” player. His size isn’t going to factor in all that much unless he completely changes how he plays the game.

As for Greentree, I have him above Sennecke. He plays a more projectable game, does all the little things well, is a leader, is bigger and actually plays physical, good defensively, and has a better shot. He’s better down in the corners and along the boards. He’s much more consistent and works harder. Even if he doesn’t pan out offensively, there’s a very good chance he’ll still be a useful player at the next level. Can’t say the same for Sennecke.

And on top of all that, he produced nearly 50% more than Sennecke on a worse team in the same league. Nobody on his team was anywhere close to him, so it’s not like he’s a product of some other player. He did it all himself.

The one knock is his skating, which is not even bad technically. His acceleration is what’s lacking, but he’s at least average in terms of speed once he gets going. The concerns are overblown imo, and it’s something that’s easily fixable.

Sennecke in comparison really isn’t even that much better in that regard, certainly not enough to put him above in overall rankings, so to me there’s just nothing to base the argument of Sennecke over Greentree on, aside from hunches or flashy highlights/plays that lead nowhere just as often, if not more than they are successful.
 

Naslund

Registered User
Jun 18, 2006
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I really love HuGo, but picking Sennecke over Iginla would test my faith in them. They have more info than me (aside from being more qualified!), so I would trust them. But it would be hard for me...
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
93,184
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Halifax
Hopefully they talk with Demidov this week and those concerns vanish I'm not sure I can handle passing on my top pick 2 years in a row if they are there at our pick.

Chicago is gonna take him now. So I don't think we would pass but wouldn't have the option to pass.

Boys better get at the table and figure out who is gonna be better between Iginla and Sennecke, cause they can't get that one wrong.
 
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habsfan891

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
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Chicago is gonna take him now. So I don't think we would pass but wouldn't have the option to pass.

Boys better get at the table and figure out who is gonna be better between Iginla and Sennecke, cause they can't get that one wrong.
I'm not really in love with either one but I agree they have to get it right.
 

SannywithoutCompy

Registered User
Dec 22, 2020
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Yes, I agree, and that’s what I’m saying; neither does Sennecke. He’s in there with these type of guys. Again, what has he done to separate himself from them? You’re going to have to give me more than a hunch or gut feeling, something tangible.

As for your point about Sennecke’s growth/frame, it doesn’t matter all that much to me because he doesn’t play at all physical, and he’s not good defensively. Thats not his game, and his extra size isn’t going to help the way he plays. Like you said, he plays like a 5’10” player. His size isn’t going to factor in all that much unless he completely changes how he plays the game.

As for Greentree, I have him above Sennecke. He plays a more projectable game, does all the little things well, is a leader, is bigger and actually plays physical, good defensively, and has a better shot. He’s better down in the corners and along the boards. He’s much more consistent and works harder. Even if he doesn’t pan out offensively, there’s a very good chance he’ll still be a useful player at the next level. Can’t say the same for Sennecke.

And on top of all that, he produced nearly 50% more than Sennecke on a worse team in the same league. Nobody on his team was anywhere close to him, so it’s not like he’s a product of some other player. He did it all himself.

The one knock is his skating, which is not even bad technically. His acceleration is what’s lacking, but he’s at least average in terms of speed once he gets going. The concerns are overblown imo, and it’s something that’s easily fixable.

Sennecke in comparison really isn’t even that much better in that regard, certainly not enough to put him above in overall rankings, so to me there’s just nothing to base the argument of Sennecke over Greentree on, aside from hunches or flashy highlights.
I like Greentree but definitely hold Sennecke in higher standing. He's a much better skater, is way better along the boards than you give him credit for, is a better forechecker (he may not hit but he has a very active stick and is great at stealing pucks from people).

They're both pretty creative, and while Greentree has the better shot I think Sennecke has the better vision and decision making offensively.
 
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Garbageyuk

Registered User
Dec 19, 2016
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I like Greentree but definitely hold Sennecke in higher standing. He's a much better skater, is way better along the boards than you give him credit for, is a better forechecker (he may not hit but he has a very active stick and is great at stealing pucks from people).

They're both pretty creative, and while Greentree has the better shot I think Sennecke has the better vision and decision making offensively.
Then explain the massive gulf in production between the two, despite Greentree playing on a much worse team with no help. There’s just no rational argument for Sennecke over Greentree. Greentree just brings too much more to the table, even aside from production, where he is also clearly superior.
 

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
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Then explain the massive gulf in production between the two, despite Greentree playing on a much worse team with no help. There’s just no rational argument for Sennecke over Greentree. Greentree just brings too much more to the table, even aside from production, where he is also clearly superior.
The rational argument? Greentree can’t even skate :laugh:
 

SannywithoutCompy

Registered User
Dec 22, 2020
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Then explain the massive gulf in production between the two, despite Greentree playing on a much worse team with no help. There’s just no rational argument for Sennecke over Greentree. Greentree just brings too much more to the table, even aside from production, where he is also clearly superior.
Okay, growing 5 inches in a couple years makes it extremely difficult to get used to your body and its abilities and limitations. Timing changes, angles of attack change, skating, shooting, passing mechanics all change. Getting used to that is really weird and takes a while.

The production evened out once Sennecke started clearly putting those newfound tools to use, and once he looked more comfortable and confident in his body and abilities. And please don't say this is something intangible therefore it isn't an argument (especially when you've already used "leadership" as a plus for Greentree when that can't possibly be quantified).

In his last 27 games, Sennecke put up 44 points which would be a 104 point pace over 64 games. You can argue that he wouldn't have maintained that, and you'd be right that we wouldn't have any way of knowing if he would have, but you'd also have to acknowledge that he was playing like a different player in those games and showed clear progression.

Greentree on the other hand put up 41 points in his last 32 games, as opposed to 49 in his first 32. I'm not using that as a negative against him necessarily, as their were probably extenuating circumstances like fatigue and his team trading players away (I assume they did since they sucked, but haven't checked).

Still, I'd rather bet on an insane upward trajectory and superior tools (in my opinion) than somewhat stagnant development over the course of the year.

Again, I like Greentree a lot and have him at 14, but I think Sennecke would be the better bet.
 

FinnHab

Registered User
May 24, 2006
2,004
813
overseas...
Is this now never ending trend? Every year, some part of the fan base is obsessed with russian prospect who is surely gonna be a new kucherov etc.
 

The Gr8 Dane

L'harceleur
Jan 19, 2018
11,664
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Montreal
Is this now never ending trend? Every year, some part of the fan base is obsessed with russian prospect who is surely gonna be a new kucherov etc.
Every year? Or do you mean the only two years where the russian prospects are so good they legit have shots at going #2 overall.


How could you not have wanted Michkov or Demidov when you look at the on ice product we've watched for the past 3 decades lol
 

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
12,897
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Toronto / North York
Is 10th ov cursed? yikes

No wonder the Devils want to trade it.



Good rank to draft someone from Finland, they should draft Helenius.

Is this now never ending trend? Every year, some part of the fan base is obsessed with russian prospect who is surely gonna be a new kucherov etc.

I don't remember rooting for a Russian prospect in the last 10 years.
 

Schooner Guy

Registered User
Jun 23, 2006
13,649
13,479
Then explain the massive gulf in production between the two, despite Greentree playing on a much worse team with no help. There’s just no rational argument for Sennecke over Greentree. Greentree just brings too much more to the table, even aside from production, where he is also clearly superior.
Have you watched Sennecke? He caught my eye in the CHL Prospects Game and I've followed him closely since. He's a magician with the puck and he's like Kovalev or Spezza on 1-on-1s. You seem fixated on overall production but you're not giving any consideration to Sennecke having 5 straight months of high end play in the OHL as he figures out how to play in his rapidly stretching out frame. He also lit up the OHL playoffs when it's tougher to find space and did it against some strong OHL teams.

You seem to be ignoring or simply not aware of the context around him and how his game has evolved in his draft year. It's totally fair to say you don't want him in the top 5 but suggesting he should be down there near the bottom of the 1st round is nuts and nobody who's been to an OHL rink in 2024 would agree with that.

The draft is about where these kids will be in 3-5 years and he's heading upwards at a fast pace.
 
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Garbageyuk

Registered User
Dec 19, 2016
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Okay, growing 5 inches in a couple years makes it extremely difficult to get used to your body and its abilities and limitations. Timing changes, angles of attack change, skating, shooting, passing mechanics all change. Getting used to that is really weird and takes a while.

The production evened out once Sennecke started clearly putting those newfound tools to use, and once he looked more comfortable and confident in his body and abilities. And please don't say this is something intangible therefore it isn't an argument (especially when you've already used "leadership" as a plus for Greentree when that can't possibly be quantified).

In his last 27 games, Sennecke put up 44 points which would be a 104 point pace over 64 games. You can argue that he wouldn't have maintained that, and you'd be right that we wouldn't have any way of knowing if he would have, but you'd also have to acknowledge that he was playing like a different player in those games and showed clear progression.

Greentree on the other hand put up 41 points in his last 32 games, as opposed to 49 in his first 32. I'm not using that as a negative against him necessarily, as their were probably extenuating circumstances like fatigue and his team trading players away (I assume they did since they sucked, but haven't checked).

Still, I'd rather bet on an insane upward trajectory and superior tools (in my opinion) than somewhat stagnant development over the course of the year.

Again, I like Greentree a lot and have him at 14, but I think Sennecke would be the better bet.
There’s very little difference here (especially when you consider the difference in quality between their respective teams), even if we assume that Sennecke’s latter half was somehow the real him and discount the 24 points in 37 games player from the first half of the year. That’s extremely dubious, to say the least.

What I see here, is that Greentree is much more consistent, and produced much more overall despite playing on a much worse team with no help, and that we don’t need to cherry pick and make assumptions/conjectures to make him look good.

That, in addition to Greentree bringing much more to the table outside of production (defense, physical play, puck protection, board battles, compete, etc), makes this a no contest in favour of Greentree.

So really, you’re argument for Sennecke is based pretty much entirely on the growth spurt and the hope that it was the reason for his poor first half, and you are also banking on Sennecke’s “insane upward trajectory” continuing at the same rate indefinitely based on the assumption that it was the reason for his poor first half, as I alluded to earlier? I’m not buying it.

You’re right, the growth spurt by itself is tangible, but you’re also involving a lot of assumptions and conjecture along with it, upon which you’ve based your argument, so how is that much different, really? We still don’t know how a growth spurt over the period of 2-3 years affects day to day on ice play; it’s entirely speculative.

I’m not convinced on that being the only factor, or even a major factor for this season specifically, not when we are talking about time spans on the scale of a few months. It’s not like he grew 5” since the start of the season and had to adapt on the fly.
 
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Schooner Guy

Registered User
Jun 23, 2006
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I’m not convinced on that being the only factor, or even a major factor. It’s not like he grew 5” since the start of the season and had to adapt on the fly.
Been involved in hockey development for a long time. Transferring small man skills from a small man's frame to a large man's frame takes some time. His upside is among the highest of all forwards in this draft.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,859
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Every team keeps picking guys that would do great in 5 years. It's the nature of the draft. Yet...MOST will pick players that are also already great with a stunning draft season. We could do that with Iginla. Sennecke did not. No matter the points from January, his season was relatively close to the previous one.

It will take some imagination to prefer him to Iginla. It will take a lot of balls to pass over another legacy while the last the Habs did it, we also picked up a guy who ALSO skyrocketed the rankings.

Sennecke,s agility and hands will mean nothing if he's not willing to use his body and play in thie traffic. Who are the last huge guys who ended up succeeding while not using their body?

Anyway, I can,t wait for the behind the scenes this year if Sennecke ends up our pick. Frankly, at this point, I hope that all 3 of Demidov, Lindstrom and Iginla are gone when it's our turn to talk. Geez, might as well drop down.
 

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