HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[FinnHab]

Is this now never ending trend? Every year, some part of the fan base is obsessed with russian prospect who is surely gonna be a new kucherov etc.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Is this now never ending trend? Every year, some part of the fan base is obsessed with russian prospect who is surely gonna be a new kucherov etc.

Every year? Or do you mean the only two years where the russian prospects are so good they legit have shots at going #2 overall.


How could you not have wanted Michkov or Demidov when you look at the on ice product we've watched for the past 3 decades lol

 

[SOLR]

Is 10th ov cursed? yikes

No wonder the Devils want to trade it.

NHL Players selected at the 10th draft position at hockeydb.com

All players selected with the 10th position in the NHL draft

www.hockeydb.com

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803119239286362494

Good rank to draft someone from Finland, they should draft Helenius.

Is this now never ending trend? Every year, some part of the fan base is obsessed with russian prospect who is surely gonna be a new kucherov etc.

I don't remember rooting for a Russian prospect in the last 10 years.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Then explain the massive gulf in production between the two, despite Greentree playing on a much worse team with no help. There’s just no rational argument for Sennecke over Greentree. Greentree just brings too much more to the table, even aside from production, where he is also clearly superior.

Have you watched Sennecke? He caught my eye in the CHL Prospects Game and I've followed him closely since. He's a magician with the puck and he's like Kovalev or Spezza on 1-on-1s. You seem fixated on overall production but you're not giving any consideration to Sennecke having 5 straight months of high end play in the OHL as he figures out how to play in his rapidly stretching out frame. He also lit up the OHL playoffs when it's tougher to find space and did it against some strong OHL teams.

You seem to be ignoring or simply not aware of the context around him and how his game has evolved in his draft year. It's totally fair to say you don't want him in the top 5 but suggesting he should be down there near the bottom of the 1st round is nuts and nobody who's been to an OHL rink in 2024 would agree with that.

The draft is about where these kids will be in 3-5 years and he's heading upwards at a fast pace.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Okay, growing 5 inches in a couple years makes it extremely difficult to get used to your body and its abilities and limitations. Timing changes, angles of attack change, skating, shooting, passing mechanics all change. Getting used to that is really weird and takes a while.

The production evened out once Sennecke started clearly putting those newfound tools to use, and once he looked more comfortable and confident in his body and abilities. And please don't say this is something intangible therefore it isn't an argument (especially when you've already used "leadership" as a plus for Greentree when that can't possibly be quantified).

In his last 27 games, Sennecke put up 44 points which would be a 104 point pace over 64 games. You can argue that he wouldn't have maintained that, and you'd be right that we wouldn't have any way of knowing if he would have, but you'd also have to acknowledge that he was playing like a different player in those games and showed clear progression.

Greentree on the other hand put up 41 points in his last 32 games, as opposed to 49 in his first 32. I'm not using that as a negative against him necessarily, as their were probably extenuating circumstances like fatigue and his team trading players away (I assume they did since they sucked, but haven't checked).

Still, I'd rather bet on an insane upward trajectory and superior tools (in my opinion) than somewhat stagnant development over the course of the year.

Again, I like Greentree a lot and have him at 14, but I think Sennecke would be the better bet.

There’s very little difference here (especially when you consider the difference in quality between their respective teams), even if we assume that Sennecke’s latter half was somehow the real him and discount the 24 points in 37 games player from the first half of the year. That’s extremely dubious, to say the least.

What I see here, is that Greentree is much more consistent, and produced much more overall despite playing on a much worse team with no help, and that we don’t need to cherry pick and make assumptions/conjectures to make him look good.

That, in addition to Greentree bringing much more to the table outside of production (defense, physical play, puck protection, board battles, compete, etc), makes this a no contest in favour of Greentree.

So really, you’re argument for Sennecke is based pretty much entirely on the growth spurt and the hope that it was the reason for his poor first half, and you are also banking on Sennecke’s “insane upward trajectory” continuing at the same rate indefinitely based on the assumption that it was the reason for his poor first half, as I alluded to earlier? I’m not buying it.

You’re right, the growth spurt by itself is tangible, but you’re also involving a lot of assumptions and conjecture along with it, upon which you’ve based your argument, so how is that much different, really? We still don’t know how a growth spurt over the period of 2-3 years affects day to day on ice play; it’s entirely speculative.

I’m not convinced on that being the only factor, or even a major factor for this season specifically, not when we are talking about time spans on the scale of a few months. It’s not like he grew 5” since the start of the season and had to adapt on the fly.

 

[Saundies]

If Demidov drops to 5 and HuGo passes on him, we can assume they'll probably never target Russian prospects with higher picks no matter going forward (at least until if/when the Ukraine situation resolves).

 

[Whitesnake]

Get another top 10 pick.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I’m not convinced on that being the only factor, or even a major factor. It’s not like he grew 5” since the start of the season and had to adapt on the fly.

Been involved in hockey development for a long time. Transferring small man skills from a small man's frame to a large man's frame takes some time. His upside is among the highest of all forwards in this draft.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If Demidov drops to 5 and HuGo passes on him, we can assume they'll probably never target Russian prospects with higher picks no matter going forward (at least until if/when the Ukraine situation resolves).

They're only passing on Demidov for Lindstrom. The chances are neither are there anyways.

 

[Whitesnake]

Every team keeps picking guys that would do great in 5 years. It's the nature of the draft. Yet...MOST will pick players that are also already great with a stunning draft season. We could do that with Iginla. Sennecke did not. No matter the points from January, his season was relatively close to the previous one.

It will take some imagination to prefer him to Iginla. It will take a lot of balls to pass over another legacy while the last the Habs did it, we also picked up a guy who ALSO skyrocketed the rankings.

Sennecke,s agility and hands will mean nothing if he's not willing to use his body and play in thie traffic. Who are the last huge guys who ended up succeeding while not using their body?

Anyway, I can,t wait for the behind the scenes this year if Sennecke ends up our pick. Frankly, at this point, I hope that all 3 of Demidov, Lindstrom and Iginla are gone when it's our turn to talk. Geez, might as well drop down.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Get another top 10 pick.

Every fan base wants the same. The cost would be very high this year as long as any of the top 6 D are still on the board.

 

[Whitesnake]

Been involved in hockey development for a long time. Transferring small man skills from a small man's frame to a large man's frame takes some time. His upside is among the highest of all forwards in this draft.

I think that nobody would have a problem with him around 10. It would be insane and exciting. The issue here is top 5. Again, pick him. But they better be right. We will see later if it pays off. I just have the belief right now that they are working way too hard for picks that seem easier to make. But future will tell us if the work was worth it.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Sennecke,s agility and hands will mean nothing if he's not willing to use his body and play in thie traffic. Who are the last huge guys who ended up succeeding while not using their body?

He did use his body from January on and throughout the playoffs. He was taking hits to make plays and he was blocking shots. His game truly transformed down the stretch. He's not even close to reaching his potential. Wait until he's 200 lbs in 3 years.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I think that nobody would have a problem with him around 10. It would be insane and exciting. The issue here is top 5. Again, pick him. But they better be right. We will see later if it pays off. I just have the belief right now that they are working way too hard for picks that seem easier to make. But future will tell us if the work was worth it.

He's certainly a high reward pick. His floor is lower than Iggy and Helenius but if Habs take him and believe he'll develop properly under their oversight, HUGE upside. He would electrify the crowd with his puck skills.

 

[sampollock]

Lidstrom
or
Sennecke

either of these I will be a happy camper.
get this week out of the way... this draft needs to be now.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Have you watched Sennecke? He caught my eye in the CHL Prospects Game and I've followed him closely since. He's a magician with the puck and he's like Kovalev or Spezza on 1-on-1s. You seem fixated on overall production but you're not giving any consideration to Sennecke having 5 straight months of high end play in the OHL as he figures out how to play in his rapidly stretching out frame. He also lit up the OHL playoffs when it's tougher to find space and did it against some strong OHL teams.

You seem to be ignoring or simply not aware of the context around him and how his game has evolved in his draft year. It's totally fair to say you don't want him in the top 5 but suggesting he should be down there near the bottom of the 1st round is nuts and nobody who's been to an OHL rink in 2024 would agree with that.

The draft is about where these kids will be in 3-5 years and he's heading upwards at a fast pace.

Not sure how you expect to be taken seriously when you pull that card right off the bat.

And Kovalev? Lol that’s exactly the hyperbole I’ve been talking about. Flashy dekes in the neutral zone that lead to nothing or turnovers as often as they do advantages/positives need to be taken with a huge grain of salt with junior players.

Guess who else looked really impressive doing that kind of stuff in juniors? Alex Galchenyuk. People, pro scouts included, raved about his hands, creativity, and IQ (yes, his IQ). He even had people complimenting his defensive awareness and work ethic. I never even saw anyone mention skating concerns either.

He turned out to be dumb as shit and one of the worst skaters in the league, and a turnover machine who wouldn’t quit trying to make junior style plays in the NHL. It’s easy to look impressive making flashy plays in juniors, but a whole different story at the NHL level. Thats why I’m wary of players whose game centers around that type of stuff. AG had vastly superior numbers compared to Sennecke though, so you could at least use that as an excuse in hindsight. Sennecke doesn’t even have the type of numbers to make it enticing.

The point is that you need to be really careful watching these type of players that play a flashy junior style game, especially when it’s not even consistently translating into results at the junior level as is the case with Sennecke.

Sennecke is one of those guys - he’s extremely raw and plays a real junior type game and is lacking in areas that you need to succeed in the pros.

I’m not saying Sennecke is going to turn out like Galchenyuk, but I’m saying that putting all your eggs into the flashy junior highlights basket is ill-advised. And with Sennecke, that seems to be the main selling point, along with the growth spurt thing. I wouldn’t use a top 15 pick on a player who’s main selling points are that.

 

[le_sean]

He's certainly a high reward pick. His floor is lower than Iggy and Helenius but if Habs take him and believe he'll develop properly under their oversight, HUGE upside. He would electrify the crowd with his puck skills.

Got to go with upside. 30 years of futility because the franchise rarely takes risks.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Are some fans still trying to sneak Sennecke in the 5-8 range mix when most have him 10-14? I think we need Bob's new list next week. See how much of a reach players like Iggy, Catton, Sennecke will be at 5.

I like Sennecke a lot... If I had the 10th or 11th pick. But yeah, I really do think it's a big reach to try to justify taking him 5th.

Every team keeps picking guys that would do great in 5 years. It's the nature of the draft. Yet...MOST will pick players that are also already great with a stunning draft season. We could do that with Iginla. Sennecke did not. No matter the points from January, his season was relatively close to the previous one.

It will take some imagination to prefer him to Iginla. It will take a lot of balls to pass over another legacy while the last the Habs did it, we also picked up a guy who ALSO skyrocketed the rankings.

Sennecke,s agility and hands will mean nothing if he's not willing to use his body and play in thie traffic. Who are the last huge guys who ended up succeeding while not using their body?

Anyway, I can,t wait for the behind the scenes this year if Sennecke ends up our pick. Frankly, at this point, I hope that all 3 of Demidov, Lindstrom and Iginla are gone when it's our turn to talk. Geez, might as well drop down.

I don’t see a shrinking violet out there.

Score like Sennecke, hit like Lindros? Hell, no.

But I don’t see him playing scared out there.

I can think of a LOT of high-end forwards that would have me combing Youtube for weeks trying to find ‘that game’ where they delivered a noteworthy bodycheck.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Every team keeps picking guys that would do great in 5 years. It's the nature of the draft. Yet...MOST will pick players that are also already great with a stunning draft season. We could do that with Iginla. Sennecke did not. No matter the points from January, his season was relatively close to the previous one.

It will take some imagination to prefer him to Iginla. It will take a lot of balls to pass over another legacy while the last the Habs did it, we also picked up a guy who ALSO skyrocketed the rankings.

Sennecke,s agility and hands will mean nothing if he's not willing to use his body and play in thie traffic. Who are the last huge guys who ended up succeeding while not using their body?

Anyway, I can,t wait for the behind the scenes this year if Sennecke ends up our pick. Frankly, at this point, I hope that all 3 of Demidov, Lindstrom and Iginla are gone when it's our turn to talk. Geez, might as well drop down.

Sennecke plays in traffic like the deaf kid down the street, he's constantly attacking the middle of the ice.

I prefer Iginla as well (brought him up to number 4 on my list after Celebrini, Demidov, Buium), but Sennecke absolutely uses his body and plays in traffic. Iginla just does it better.

Also again, you really can't just hardwave away the difference between his first and second half, especially when there's a very reasonable explanation for why it took him until then to get going.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

For my exposure therapy I’m picturing Carey Price on stage saying “with the 5th overall selection in the 2024 NhL Draft the Montreal Canadiens are proud to select from the London Knights of the Ontario Hockey League, Sam ahhh errrr umm….”

 

[Garbageyuk]

Sennecke plays in traffic like the deaf kid down the street, he's constantly attacking the middle of the ice.

He doesn’t do it at all consistently enough. Some games he does, some games he plays like Marner, only he doesn’t have the vision or passing skills to make the same kind of things happen from there like Marner can.

It’s either a motivation issue, or it’s that he only is willing to get into the middle and into traffic against teams where he thinks he can get away with it, and he shies away from those areas against teams with bigger more physical players. With the puck on his stick, he’ll about try anything. Without is another story.

Seems like more of a motivation thing.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Not sure how you expect to be taken seriously when you pull that card right off the bat.

And Kovalev? Lol that’s exactly the hyperbole I’ve been talking about. Flashy dekes in the neutral zone that lead to nothing or turnovers as often as they do advantages/positives need to be taken with a huge grain of salt with junior players.

Guess who else looked really impressive doing that kind of stuff in juniors? Alex Galchenyuk. People, pro scouts included, raved about his hands, creativity, and IQ (yes, his IQ). He even had people complimenting his defensive awareness and work ethic. I never even saw anyone mention skating concerns either.

He turned out to be dumb as shit and one of the worst skaters in the league, and a turnover machine who wouldn’t quit trying to make junior style plays in the NHL. It’s easy to look impressive making flashy plays in juniors, but a whole different story at the NHL level. Thats why I’m wary of players whose game centers around that type of stuff. AG had vastly superior numbers compared to Sennecke though, so you could at least use that as an excuse in hindsight. Sennecke doesn’t even have the type of numbers to make it enticing.

The point is that you need to be really careful watching these type of players that play a flashy junior style game, especially when it’s not even consistently translating into results at the junior level as is the case with Sennecke.

Sennecke is one of those guys - he’s extremely raw and plays a real junior type game and is lacking in areas that you need to succeed in the pros.

I’m not saying Sennecke is going to turn out like Galchenyuk, but I’m saying that putting all your eggs into the flashy junior highlights basket is ill-advised. And with Sennecke, that seems to be the main selling point, along with the growth spurt thing. I wouldn’t use a top 15 pick on a player who’s main selling points are that.

I'm sorry man but when you talk about Sennecke being all flash and dash, I can't help but question whether you watched him play in the 2nd half other than the highlights you mentioned. Not only does it go against the eye test but the people around the OHL were raving about the switch that went off in his game and how he played far more physical and was sacrificing his body. His team shot up the standings and then knocked off a couple of teams in the OHL largely because of his play. This went on for 5 months at the end of his draft cycle. This isn't someone who got hot for a couple of weeks.

Galchenyuk had a lot of non-hockey factors that led to his career going down the toilet. I don't know anything about Sennecke the person but if he has a good head on his shoulders and his willing to put in the work, someone may land a sexy gem with size in a draft that doesn't have a lot of forwards with top line upside.

 

[austin316]

They're only passing on Demidov for Lindstrom. The chances are neither are there anyways.

One of them will be available at 5

 

[WeThreeKings]

One of them will be available at 5

I felt that way until today. Chicago will go Demidov.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm sorry man but when you talk about Sennecke being all flash and dash, I can't help but question whether you watched him play in the 2nd half other than the highlights you mentioned.

…okay.

people around the OHL were raving about the switch that went off in his game and how he played far more physical and was sacrificing his body.

Source/link? Because that’s not what I saw. I saw a player who maybe looked more engaged and motivated to make things happen more consistently (i.e., getting into traffic, getting to the dirty areas), mostly just with the puck on his stick though. His engagement and effort away from the puck was as inconsistent and fleeting as it’s always been.

I didn’t see him playing physical or using his body to gain advantage much at all. That’s not his game and he’s never played like that to any significant extent.