Pre-Game Talk: 2024 Draft Thread

[tfriede2]

I haven’t been following this year’s draft class very closely, but in reading scouting reports and the main boards, it appears to be a rather weak class. Opinions will obviously vary, but any input on this?

 

[kimzey59]

I haven’t been following this year’s draft class very closely, but in reading scouting reports and the main boards, it appears to be a rather weak class. Opinions will obviously vary, but any input on this?

It's weak compared to last year.
But last year was an exceptionally strong draft. It's not exactly a fair comparison.

I'm not going to say it's an outstanding year, but it's on par with most recent Drafts. In fact, it's starting to look startling similar to the 2019 Draft(minus Spencer Knight).

All of the pieces you would expect to find in a good Draft are there.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I haven’t been following this year’s draft class very closely, but in reading scouting reports and the main boards, it appears to be a rather weak class. Opinions will obviously vary, but any input on this?

At this point, I don't think this class measures up against the last couple, at least in terms of impact players. The talk about this class for last several years is that is great defensive class, and there is some defensive depth in the roughly 20-50 range, but look at the top 12 in 2022, where there were 5 defensemen picked. i'd be surprised if at draft time we have 5 d who are as good as those 5m but a lot can happen in next 6 months.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Another D that needs to be thrown in that mix is Charlie Elick. Big, phenomenal skater, has the defensive portion figured out. His bottom is a top 6. If Jiracek can be a high pick on tools alone, then this guy should as well.

Pulkkinen looked pretty darn good at the WJCs. He has good size and impressive tool kit.

I’m warming up to Parekh as he is quite dynamic offensively and there is usually one that is THE guy smallish stud. I think it’s him. Better have a damn good Gunnarsson type partner.

Run from Mews…

Freij is also in that picture for me. Creeping up much like Willander did last year. Similar tool kit.

 

[LogosBlue]

That is interesting question. I've been watching lots of games (and highlights when I can't find games) of d prospects to try to get my arms around this. Currently there are 2 guys who I am confident have top pair upside (doesn't mean they will reach it, just that it's not that hard to squint and see it without anything crazy happening). Those are Dickinson and Silyaev and neither are likely to be around past top 5-7 picks (if they make it that long).

The next few guys all have a lot more questions about them-

Levshunov is most likely going to go in top 10, maybe top 5, but I am not yet convinced. He has prototypical size, is putting up great stats in NCAA, and skates quite well for his size. But every time I watch him he looks like a disaster in his own end, is sloppy with the puck, and leaves me with more questions than answers. Now, 2 years ago he was playing in Belarus and is 3rd youngest guy in NCAA, so I anticipate there is still quite a bit of runway here with him. He COULD be a stud #1 guy. Or he could be much, much less. This is guy who you want to watch every month or so to see his progress, bc if it clicks for him he could be exactly who you are looking for. By the teens I think risk is worth it. At 5-7 range I'm not there, yet.

Buium is probably the next best guy. He is 2nd youngest guy in NCAA (after Celebrini) and reminds me a lot of Shatty. I think he will be very good NHL player and is appropriate value in 10-12 range if not a bit higher. is lefty but is playing right side. however, i think he is ideally the anchor of 2nd pair with easier minutes and not the 1st pair stud we are ideally seeking. that said, if he is best guy on board when we pick i would take him.

after that, it gets a lot more jumbled. you have parekh and yakemchuck who are both really good offensively and kind of a mess defensively. they can improve on d and become what you are looking for, but will they? at some point the upside makes it worth it and if all they are is tyson barrie types it's not the worst outcome, but not at 10-12.

you have a couple of european guys who were highly touted but were having rough seasons before getting hurt. i think kiviharju will be back at some point this season, but jiricek won't. kiviharju looks to have great hockey sense but is only 5'10". Jiricek (younger brother of cbj young stud) has all the tools and good size (less than his brother who was top 10 pick couple years ago), but for every nice play he makes there is 1 that makes you wonder if he will ever be decent nhl player. lots of folks like him, but i get bust vibes from him.

Beyond those guys, I don't yet have any d at a level that would merit serious consideration in top 12 picks or so. There are still some intriguing guys who i think i would be comfortable taking later in 1st or at least in 2nd (LSW and Freij from Sweden, Shuravin perhaps, Skahan and Emery from NTDP, and multiple intriguing guys in CHL led by Mews). D tend to develop slower than forwards, so it's not unusual for them to be risers as we get closer to draft so this is something to continue to monitor in the months ahead.

If Buium is available when we use our 1st, that would be my pick. His stock keeps rising. Skahan is also a nice late round 1st / early 2nd pick.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I haven’t been following this year’s draft class very closely, but in reading scouting reports and the main boards, it appears to be a rather weak class. Opinions will obviously vary, but any input on this?

I’ve been keeping track with the spreadsheet of all the prospect ratings and it is such a seesaw this year with guys. Heck. We may end up with Silayev before it’s all over. He doesn’t put up points and all of a sudden he’s not very good. As if that means anything….

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Another D that needs to be thrown in that mix is Charlie Elick. Big, phenomenal skater, has the defensive portion figured out. His bottom is a top 6. If Jiracek can be a high pick on tools alone, then this guy should as well.

Pulkkinen looked pretty darn good at the WJCs. He has good size and impressive tool kit.

I’m warming up to Parekh as he is quite dynamic offensively and there is usually one that is THE guy smallish stud. I think it’s him. Better have a damn good Gunnarsson type partner.

Run from Mews…

Freij is also in that picture for me. Creeping up much like Willander did last year. Similar tool kit.

Elick is absolutely one I've been watching. Guys like the NTDP pair, Elick, and Fischer still look a bit underbaked to me. All are in the late 1st group for me at this point, but have size and tools to rocket way up the list. For the CHL guys I'm eager to see their top prospect game in 2 weeks. It's on NHL network in US if anyone wants to watch on 1/24.

Pulkikinen is interesting too. I don't love his feet. He is 2nd or 3rd round for me and I don't expect him to rise much beyond that given his age and agility limitations.

Parekh is having huge year and has great shot and goal scoring instincts. I'd like to see him show more defensively before I put him in top 10, but he ain't likely to last much beyond it for reasons you say. EDIT- another question i have on him is skating. not whether it is good, but how good? i am sold on the smoothness of it, but still trying to understand whether he has the explosive skating of a hughes or makar, because if he can do that, he is a top 10 pick even if he doesn't defend that well.

What is it about Mews that scares you?

Freij I didn't love my viewings on at Hlinka, but that team was rather a mess. I'm not sure that he has the explosiveness that Willander has, the not just good but fantastic skating. I'm eager to see how he develops though, as both he and his j20 teammate LSW could both end up in top 20 or higher by time u18s wrap up.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Two sites and podcasters I follow one being the Sick podcast are not big fans of Mews and also mentioned he isn’t as tall as he lists either. They have lots of reports on him and just don’t give him the blessing.

I also really like Colton Roberts who is a very talented rough and abrasive defender with some offensive skill.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Dickinson and Silayev are the two I want. But the Blues are going to have to drop in the standings to get one of those two.

I liked Jiricek and really wanted to see how he measured up in the WJC but that meany Pekarcik took him out the first game. But he’s definitely going to drop now that he’s out for the season with knee surgery. He’s not as good as his brother but definitely has some tools. A potential late 1st steal.

Buium is probably at the top of my “next tier” list now. I see a 2nd pairing guy with him. Keep in mind he’s a late ‘05 so he has an extra development year under his belt compared to the ‘06s.

I watched some of Parekh early on in the season but not really the last couple months. I’ll have to see more of him but I’m warming up to the idea of him. Definitely a boom or bust type.

Levhsunov looked fine in the 2 games I’ve seen him play. I’ll have to watch more as I didn’t see why he was ranked top 3-4 at the time.

I really liked Kiviharju last season but haven’t seen him this season as he’s been injured. But he’s so dang small.

Same with Cole Hutson. Lots of similarities to his brother but can they actually utilize those skills in the NHL to be more than a sheltered 3rd pairing guy? IDK.

All that said, I’d say I’m much more comfortable evaluating forwards than d-men. I played forward and I find it hard to evaluate d-men on video as so many of the little things that make for a good d-man don’t happen on the screen. ie. then reading the play and getting into position to pinch or thwart a breakout or whatever. The view might be focused in the corner while the d-man adjusts to what he sees…and we don’t see that. The d-men then makes what appears to be a routine play a couple seconds later but we don’t see why he was able to be in the right place at the right time. Same for the exact opposite when he doesn’t make the read quickly enough. Much prefer viewings in person for that reason but it is what it is.

I’m also not against taking a forward if that’s the BPA when it’s the Blues turn to pick.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Dickinson and Silayev are the two I want. But the Blues are going to have to drop in the standings to get one of those two...

I’m also not against taking a forward if that’s the BPA when it’s the Blues turn to pick.

I think you hit on something key in that last line (I agree with the rest so not much to say on that) that we as a group too often overlook.

The clearest path to becoming a contender again is by accumulating the best players that we can. by reaching for need in the draft you set the organization back, often significantly. You can fill organizational needs through other means, as we were reminded again by ducks-flyers trade this week. the particulars of the trade were so interesting (Kevin Hayes!) that has gotten a bit overlooked. At it's core, this deal is similar to the Seth Jones-RyJo deal, the Shanny-Pronger deal, or untold others where team's were able to get stud d by trading stud f.

If we don't get Dickinson or Silayev but can get someone like lindstrom or helenius versus a defenseman like yak or someone who is a tier or 2 lower in our ratings, then we should 100% take the F and find another way to get that d. and it doesn't have to be immediately, as none of these guys are likely to help next year. perhaps we could deal our pick or one of our stud prospect like dvo or snuggy or whatever for reinbacher or clarke or nemec or david jiricek or whomever we feel is the stud d we need.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I think you hit on something key in that last line (I agree with the rest so not much to say on that) that we as a group too often overlook.

The clearest path to becoming a contender again is by accumulating the best players that we can. by reaching for need in the draft you set the organization back, often significantly. You can fill organizational needs through other means, as we were reminded again by ducks-flyers trade this week. the particulars of the trade were so interesting (Kevin Hayes!) that has gotten a bit overlooked. At it's core, this deal is similar to the Seth Jones-RyJo deal, the Shanny-Pronger deal, or untold others where team's were able to get stud d by trading stud f.

If we don't get Dickinson or Silayev but can get someone like lindstrom or helenius versus a defenseman like yak or someone who is a tier or 2 lower in our ratings, then we should 100% take the F and find another way to get that d. and it doesn't have to be immediately, as none of these guys are likely to help next year. perhaps we could deal our pick or one of our stud prospect like dvo or snuggy or whatever for reinbacher or clarke or nemec or david jiricek or whomever we feel is the stud d we need.

No defensemen named Liberatore please….

I think a forward may be our best pick as the chips are falling but I would consider reaching for Elick if he is there.

 

[Memento]

Parekh would absolutely be my first choice, especially if we deal someone like Faulk or Krug.

I’d love to take Mews with a high second, though; he’s had a bad year, and he’s smaller than you’d like, but like Jake Walman, Mews used to be a forward, and he’s still really learning the nuances of the position.

Either way, we really need to rebuild the right-hand side of our prospect pool. Parekh and Mews would do that.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Parekh puts up Coffeyesque numbers, but I don’t see Coffeyesque skating ability. Scores a lot of goals…. Flop or rock star?l

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

New central scouting list came out for prospects

 

[kimzey59]

New central scouting list came out for prospects

First thing that sticks out: Buium and Yakemchuk over Dickinson.
Not buying that one at all.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Eiserman at 8? With no Euros?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

First thing that sticks out: Buium and Yakemchuk over Dickinson.
Not buying that one at all.

the only real issues i have with the list are yak and dickinson. not that i agree with everything else (i haven't put my rankings together yet anyway, still working on tiers), but those are 2 on NA list that stand out. Yak feels at least 10 spots too high and dickinson i would put up on level with lindstrom. everyone else makes more sense. like i wouldn't pick buium or connelly that high, but i get why someone would and wouldn't be surprised if they end up being worth those spots. on the euro list, i think the swedish d are both too low but otherwise it generally makes sense.

Eiserman at 8? With no Euros?

i'm just not feeling him. i'm thinking as of now i would at least take celebrini, demidov, lindstrom, helenius, and maybe catton all above him among forwards.

 

[Thallis]

I think you hit on something key in that last line (I agree with the rest so not much to say on that) that we as a group too often overlook.

The clearest path to becoming a contender again is by accumulating the best players that we can. by reaching for need in the draft you set the organization back, often significantly. You can fill organizational needs through other means, as we were reminded again by ducks-flyers trade this week. the particulars of the trade were so interesting (Kevin Hayes!) that has gotten a bit overlooked. At it's core, this deal is similar to the Seth Jones-RyJo deal, the Shanny-Pronger deal, or untold others where team's were able to get stud d by trading stud f.

If we don't get Dickinson or Silayev but can get someone like lindstrom or helenius versus a defenseman like yak or someone who is a tier or 2 lower in our ratings, then we should 100% take the F and find another way to get that d. and it doesn't have to be immediately, as none of these guys are likely to help next year. perhaps we could deal our pick or one of our stud prospect like dvo or snuggy or whatever for reinbacher or clarke or nemec or david jiricek or whomever we feel is the stud d we need.

Honestly I think I'd rather trade up/down, considering our current organizational needs. The reality of the cap means teams are very reluctant to trade their high caliber prospects, this Guathier-Drysdale deal is one of the only ones I can remember of prospects who aren't struggling in some capacity. In theory, the idea of generate the most value makes intuitive sense, but in practice you need a dance partner for that and once someone is drafted it means that organization has someone going to bat for the prospect.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Honestly I think I'd rather trade up/down, considering our current organizational needs. The reality of the cap means teams are very reluctant to trade their high caliber prospects, this Guathier-Drysdale deal is one of the only ones I can remember of prospects who aren't struggling in some capacity. In theory, the idea of generate the most value makes intuitive sense, but in practice you need a dance partner for that and once someone is drafted it means that organization has someone going to bat for the prospect.

i don't disagree with the sentiment, but how many trades during last year's 1st round? zero? teams generally only move down (in top 10 at least) if they don't have anyone left on the tier they were looking for. like how if dvo was gone we were gonna drop down a few spots and pick up a 2nd from sabres. so if the clear top guy left when we pick is forward we could move down a few spots and take a d later. or preferably, if we still have one d at a level above others but other forwards at that level remain, we may be able to move up a couple spots for a 2nd. but that requires a bit of perfect storm too.

Often the sweet spot is where there isn't what you describe, "once someone is drafted it means that organization has someone going to bat for the prospect". in philly-ducks deal both teams had changed gm since drafting the guy. i would keep an eye on a team like columbus, who has drafted lots of d high last few years and will likely have a new gm before draft. or ottawa who just changed gm and wants to reconfigure their core. something like that.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

the only real issues i have with the list are yak and dickinson. not that i agree with everything else (i haven't put my rankings together yet anyway, still working on tiers), but those are 2 on NA list that stand out. Yak feels at least 10 spots too high and dickinson i would put up on level with lindstrom. everyone else makes more sense. like i wouldn't pick buium or connelly that high, but i get why someone would and wouldn't be surprised if they end up being worth those spots. on the euro list, i think the swedish d are both too low but otherwise it generally makes sense.


i'm just not feeling him. i'm thinking as of now i would at least take celebrini, demidov, lindstrom, helenius, and maybe catton all above him among forwards.

I remember another one trick pony who had far less other skills that we picked up in a trade for Rob Ramage. Cole has that ability

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I remember another one trick pony who had far less other skills that we picked up in a trade for Rob Ramage. Cole has that ability

i honestly haven't spent much time on him because we actually much more need the next rob ramage than the next cole caufield. now, if he is gonna be brett hull, sure, would love that on blues. but what if he is kiefer bellows or wahlstrom or owen tippet or.. his chance to be elite goal scorer is why he is still in top 10, but the doubts about and beyond that are why he isn't top 3.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

If we can somehow acquire a late 1st and now land Jiricek with it, we could set ourself up for back-2-back monster drafts. Still hoping BPA for where our own 1st lands is a Dman. But damn, Lindstein, Jiricek, and another top D prospect all added to the pool within 2 years sounds like a recipe for future success. Get this ship correcting course with an eye on being competitive in 2026-27.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Two sites and podcasters I follow one being the Sick podcast are not big fans of Mews and also mentioned he isn’t as tall as he lists either. They have lots of reports on him and just don’t give him the blessing.

I also really like Colton Roberts who is a very talented rough and abrasive defender with some offensive skill.

central scouting likes roberts too, up to 24 among na skaters.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

central scouting likes roberts too, up to 24 among na skaters.

I saw that. Plan on deep diving today. Check out some of the unfamiliar. Listen to a podcaster or two rip the list…haha

Someone who has fell off the radar is Will Felicio. I think he’s too small but he was pushed early as a potential 1st.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I saw that. Plan on deep diving today. Check out some of the unfamiliar. Listen to a podcaster or two rip the list…haha

Someone who has fell off the radar is Will Felicio. I think he’s too small but he was pushed early as a potential 1st.

I was able to watch good bit of Vancouver Giants game last night. Roberts is super intriguing. Moves well for his size, seemed comfortable with puck, had look of future nhl d. Now is that top pair? Bottom? Need to dive deeper, but if we get another 1st he is kind of guy that could be great fit there.