2024-25 Roster…too soon?

[TLEH]

What timeline? lol By the time they are ready to compete, Farabee is a 30 year old UFA. Rather get a 30 year old UFA now, keep the assets, and get the 25 year old in 5 years with assets.

If we’re not competing in 5 years this entire thing was a complete failure anyway.

 

[Hawkaholic]

reading this thread it’s very apparent that some of you think the plan is to ice a roster made up entirely of 23-25 year olds six years from now.

Just not realistic. They gotta add talent throughout the rebuild via trade and free agency. Signing a couple vets and adding a forward like Farabee doesn’t make this team a cup contender. They’ll still be picking 6-10 next year.

It will take 5 years to be in contention, so what's the point of trading top assets for 50pt players, right now? You can sign the 28-30 year olds for more money, for free, (cap doesn't matter) and fill that hole until you need to address it when the team gets better, and still draft the top players in the draft the next 2 years. You still have those assets in 3+ years, you can trade them for that type of talent then, when they are closer to being legit.

I think the Hawks focus on guys who aren't getting long term deals, and give them slightly more to play on a losing team, or take swings on lower line talent in free agency. Maybe trade a 2nd for a younger player in need of a scenery change, but don't see them trading top assets for 24/25 year old 50 pt players.

 

[featherhawk]

I second this. Known commodities like Farabee would be a great asset to a team that has very few. Drafting a bunch of players and hoping they turn out is a risk in itself. Look at Buffalo and Arizona. They rarely traded their picks and that resulted in eras of terribleness. They could’ve benefited by gaining other assets outside of prospects and picks.


Our prospect pool is already full of talent. We could really use some talent NOW. It’s going to be contract hell when all of our young guys become of age

so the rebuild or the success of it will hinge on the hawks to be able to reasonably acquire/sign the right guys to fill the gaps/voids.

Farabee is a guy that could be such a peice IMO, he is responsible, can score, plays a complete game and he is a Luke kinda of a guy. No issues with the potential that he brings to the rebuild as he is still pretty young but seems to play a much more mature game.

 

[HawksDub89]

It will take 5 years to be in contention, so what's the point of trading top assets for 50pt players, right now? You can sign the 28-30 year olds for more money, for free, (cap doesn't matter) and fill that hole until you need to address it when the team gets better, and still draft the top players in the draft the next 2 years. You still have those assets in 3+ years, you can trade them for that type of talent then, when they are closer to being legit.

I think the Hawks focus on guys who aren't getting long term deals, and give them slightly more to play on a losing team, or take swings on lower line talent in free agency. Maybe trade a 2nd for a younger player in need of a scenery change, but don't see them trading top assets for 24/25 year old 50 pt players.

5 years?!?!?

If this team isn’t competitive in 5 years the rebuild will have failed and KD will be gone.

The entire core will not be made up of drafted players. Trades will happen. Big FA signings could/should happen.

Sharp and Hossa were huge pieces added to the 10-15 core via trade/FA.

Also I would argue Farabee has a higher ceiling that he hasn’t reached yet. So 50 point winger who could be a 60-70 point winger on Bedards line.

 

[featherhawk]

5 years?!?!?

If this team isn’t competitive in 5 years the rebuild will have failed and KD will be gone.

The entire core will not be made up of drafted players. Trades will happen. Big FA signings could/should happen.

Sharp and Hossa were huge pieces added to the 10-15 core via trade/FA.

Also I would argue Farabee has a higher ceiling that he hasn’t reached yet. So 50 point winger who could be a 60-70 point winger on Bedards line.

and it is the only way to rebuild a team effectively, you must have the folks to plug gaps/voids. Farabee would most certainly be a name I would circle if I could acquire for the right price...

 

[WarriorofTime]

You don’t trade first round picks in a rebuild. That’s like the most valuable currency during a rebuild. For a player not even on an ELC? That had less points than Kurashev last season and is the same age? Doesn’t make sense. You’re paying a UFA price by the time you’re in a window for a player level that’s always reasonably available. There will be 27 year olds of Farabee's caliber around in three years...

 

[hockeydoug]

The idea that they build a core internally first and then bring in veteran help is crazy.

They still have to build up a way to play that works, with real NHL lines. That takes years, and there's going to be some misfires in there no matter how well they do. This needs to happen as they keep drafting.

It's not a wasted paper transaction if a 4 year expensive player helps the team play better and then leaves for nothing when they turn the corner.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The idea that they build a core internally first and then bring in veteran help is crazy.

They still have to build up a way to play that works, with real NHL lines. That takes years, and there's going to be some misfires in there no matter how well they do. This needs to happen as they keep drafting.

It's not a wasted paper transaction if a 4 year expensive player helps the team play better and then leaves for nothing when they turn the corner.

You can acquire players without spending 1st round picks to do so..

 

[belfour30]

The idea that they build a core internally first and then bring in veteran help is crazy.

No, that's exactly how you do it. Gotta get the core established first before bringing in veteran help. This is a long-term rebuild. This is year 1, 22-23 was year 0. Still got 3-4 years to go.

 

[HawksDub89]

You can acquire players without spending 1st round picks to do so..

The odds of the Tampa 1st turning into something like Farabee aren’t as good as you think.

No, that's exactly how you do it. Gotta get the core established first before bringing in veteran help. This is a long-term rebuild. This is year 1, 22-23 was year 0. Still got 3-4 years to go.

Yes, the 24 year old veteran.

 

[Sarava]

They need to start building towards a winner now. You can't let this 'it's ok to lose 2/3 of our games' culture continue, because it might be hard or impossible to break out of it if you think you can just flip a switch two of three years from now. If they keep kicking the can down the road and obsessing over draft picks, they're just going to be another Buffalo or Edmonton.

 

[clydesdale line]

Joel Farabee just turned 24 years old 2 months ago. He's literally a year older than Alex Vlasic. He's a few months younger than Philipp Kurashev in fact. Yet some people here think 24 is ancient and he "doesn't fit the timeline with the other players"... LOL what.

 

[TLEH]

Joel Farabee just turned 24 years old 2 months ago. He's literally a year older than Alex Vlasic. He's a few months younger than Philipp Kurashev in fact. Yet some people here think 24 is ancient and he "doesn't fit the timeline with the other players"... LOL what.

Yeah I definitely don't agree with the discourse on that. If people don't like Farabee that's one thing, but 24 isn't too old to acquire and help this team. You can't just build only through the draft.

 

[WarriorofTime]

24 is a fool’s gold as far as “young” for rebuilding teams. That’s 27 in three years, and 27 year olds are always available. The 24 year olds you’d want are the ones that are not available. What season are you even targeting him for? 2027-28 when he's an expiring UFA? You can spend a 2nd round pick for quality expiring UFAs every year...

 

[WarriorofTime]

The odds of the Tampa 1st turning into something like Farabee aren’t as good as you think.

That matters less to me than you'd think. There is a replacement value you can get out of a non-trade. You weigh it against the upside of cheap/cost-controlled/high upside of draft picks, realizing that high volume plays a big role in a good draft buildup.

Farabee has four years and then is either a UFA or extended and there's no reason to think you're going to get great value out of any UFA contract, as that's not how it generally works. His current deal is OK and can become good if he continues to improve. Let someone that plans to be in the postseason each of the next four seasons trade away a late 1st, which won't help them much those years, instead. That is, if he's even available to begin with. And if he is available, it's because the Flyers want rebuild assets and not a "hockey trade".

 

[MicronMega]

Ok Hear me out here. Big money deals on UFA's for two years then a hand shake deal for lesser money extensions.

Stamkos $8.5M x 2. Then $5M x 4 extension
Marchessault $7M x 2. Then $4.5 x 4 extension
Pesce $6.5M x 2. Then $4.5 x 5 extension
Vlasic $5.5M x 8

This leaves the Hawks with $7.6 in cap space and the flexibility of paying Bedard and company in two years.

Stamkos-Bedard-Kurashev
Hall-Celebrini-Marchessault
Reichel-Dickenson-AA
Donato-Foligno-Anderson

Vlasic-Jones
KK-Pesce
Kaiser-Murphy
EDM

Mrazek
Soderblom

That would be a fun team to watch for a couple years

 

[Chuck Testa]

Ok Hear me out here. Big money deals on UFA's for two years then a hand shake deal for lesser money extensions.

Stamkos $8.5M x 2. Then $5M x 4 extension
Marchessault $7M x 2. Then $4.5 x 4 extension
Pesce $6.5M x 2. Then $4.5 x 5 extension
Vlasic $5.5M x 8

This leaves the Hawks with $7.6 in cap space and the flexibility of paying Bedard and company in two years.

Stamkos-Bedard-Kurashev
Hall-Celebrini-Marchessault
Reichel-Dickenson-AA
Donato-Foligno-Anderson

Vlasic-Jones
KK-Pesce
Kaiser-Murphy
EDM

Mrazek
Soderblom

That would be a fun team to watch for a couple years

Sure would be a fun team to watch.

 

[HjamSandwich]

Why not hand out $4.1 million offer sheets instead of trading future 1sts? Cost you only a 2nd.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Why not hand out $4.1 million offer sheets instead of trading future 1sts? Cost you only a 2nd.

$4.1 million is pretty cheap and will get matched for anyone worth offer sheeting. Issue with offer sheeting is you have to really up the value to. make the original team consider not matching, at which point the comp becomes too high. That's why it doesn't play out that often.

 

[Hawkaholic]

5 years?!?!?

If this team isn’t competitive in 5 years the rebuild will have failed and KD will be gone.

The entire core will not be made up of drafted players. Trades will happen. Big FA signings could/should happen.

Sharp and Hossa were huge pieces added to the 10-15 core via trade/FA.

Also I would argue Farabee has a higher ceiling that he hasn’t reached yet. So 50 point winger who could be a 60-70 point winger on Bedards line.

They may make the playoffs in 3 years, but I doubt they are one of the top teams for 5 years or so. It isn't even that outlandish of a claim, really. Trades will happen, but I highly doubt they will involve prospects/1st round picks for at least a couple of more years.

Hossa wasn't signed until 4 years after Toews was drafted, but they already had a good stable of players when Toews and Kane were drafted, they have almost nothing at this point compared to that.

The idea that they build a core internally first and then bring in veteran help is crazy.

That's literally how the Hawks dynasty was built.

Joel Farabee just turned 24 years old 2 months ago. He's literally a year older than Alex Vlasic. He's a few months younger than Philipp Kurashev in fact. Yet some people here think 24 is ancient and he "doesn't fit the timeline with the other players"... LOL what.

Would you trade a 1st round pick for Kurashev?

 

[clydesdale line]

Would you trade a 1st round pick for Kurashev?

Name one guy Farabee played with on that team that is even close to Bedard as a talent.

 

[u2wojo]

Unless Philly wants to move on from Farabee or Frost for a 2nd and a redundent piece from the prospect pool, I am hard passing on the concept of a 1st, a former first that is not even 22 (Reichel) and another piece.

You can easily land a similar player as a UFA if you are offereing 4 years at 5 per among Stephenson, Teuvo, Lindholm, Kane, Duchene, Marchessault, DeBrusk, Drouin, Monohan, Domi, Toffoli, Tarasenko, Henrique and a dozen other UFA's that cost you nothing in assets, cost you similar money, fill a similar role (of trying to have a roster capable of winning more and helping the prospects coming in develop at the NHL level).

For the arguement of name a guy as good as Bedard Farabee played with the counter is Bell Calder and Arneson didn't play with anyone of Bedard's caliber either and put up numbers on a shit team too.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Hawks previous rebuild added high priced FA's (Khabibulin, etc) and saw them make big trades for Handzus and Havlat to provide NHL talent for kids to play with and for team to improve

This idea you stay terrible for years and then just flip switch is not realistic and being terrible for years and having kids endure that toxic atmosphere is how you end up like Buffalo

There is a reason most guys flourish away from that dumpster fire organization

 

[TLEH]

Kurashev scored 25 points without Bedard what are we talking about here.

Farabee’s most common linemates were Cates and Brink at 5v5. He’s miles better than Kurashev.

Then we’re talking about guys that fit the timeline and then talking about adding Teuvo or someone else for 5 years rather than give up a 1st rounder. That fits the timeline??

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Hawks previous rebuild added high priced FA's (Khabibulin, etc) and saw them make big trades for Handzus and Havlat to provide NHL talent for kids to play with and for team to improve

This idea you stay terrible for years and then just flip switch is not realistic and being terrible for years and having kids endure that toxic atmosphere is how you end up like Buffalo

There is a reason most guys flourish away from that dumpster fire organization

That’s fine. But with those Havlat and Hadzus trades, the Hawks didn’t give up jack to acquire them. I’m not trading a first and Reichel for f***ing Farabee.

You can sign a free agent just as good as Farabee and keep the assets.