2024-25 Roster…too soon?

[WarriorofTime]

The model is not Buffalo's worthless 27 point improvement to "bring in quality vets, give the kids a non-losing environment" as they grinded out a season to finish middle of the road in goals against. They got some quality goaltending out of Chad Johnson as well... that may have been the most worthless and costly part of their whole failed rebuild. Took them out of Matthews/Laine/Dubois/Keller/Tkachuk land and they got Alex Nylander at 8th instead with no excess 1st round pick and no excess 2nd round pick. So they got nothing out of that Draft other than drafting but not signing Hagel for some reason.

 

[TLEH]

The model is not Buffalo's worthless 27 point improvement to "bring in quality vets, give the kids a non-losing environment" as they grinded out a season to finish middle of the road in goals against. They got some quality goaltending out of Chad Johnson as well... that may have been the most worthless and costly part of their whole failed rebuild. Took them out of Matthews/Laine/Dubois/Keller/Tkachuk land and they got Alex Nylander at 8th instead with no excess 1st round pick and no excess 2nd round pick. So they got nothing out of that Draft other than drafting but not signing Hagel for some reason.

If your argument is that Buffalo lacks talent then I would strongly disagree with that argument. That team should be good, they just haven’t been. Coaching has been a massive problem there, and so has goaltending. Their prospect pool is amazing and their roster is full of talented young players as well.

If anything they need more veterans to lead their group, not less.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hawks previous rebuild added high priced FA's (Khabibulin, etc)

cost nothing in assets, only cap sapce

and saw them make big trades for Handzus

cost a 27 year old Kyle Calder

and Havlat

cost a 26 year old Mark Bell

to provide NHL talent for kids to play with and for team to improve

Handzus played 8 games and got injured, the Hawks won the draft lotto after that season and got Patrick Kane. Thankfully they didn't improve too much and end up with like Sam Gagner or Zach Hammill and the Hawks are still setting on a since 1961 Cup drought.

If your argument is that Buffalo lacks talent then I would strongly disagree with that argument. That team should be good, they just haven’t been. Coaching has been a massive problem there, and so has goaltending. Their prospect pool is amazing and their roster is full of talented young players as well.

If anything they need more veterans to lead their group, not less.

They are probably about a forward away in present day from getting good, it's been a bumpy road though, and I was talking about back in 2015-16. All those "kids in non sucky tanky environment" aren't even there anymore.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Name one guy Farabee played with on that team that is even close to Bedard as a talent.

According to leftwinglock, his most common lines mates were Couturier/Koneckny, and Frost/Atkinson. Sure, give him 15 more points playing with Bedard. So he's a 65pt player. Kurashev is a 60pt player with Bedard. He's not miles better, in any aspect.

And the trade for Farabee wasn't jsut a 1st like I mentioned with Kurashev, it also had us adding Reichel AND Kaiser. lol

Then we’re talking about guys that fit the timeline and then talking about adding Teuvo or someone else for 5 years rather than give up a 1st rounder. That fits the timeline??

Big difference, TT would be a UFA add, not trading top assets for him. I dont think anyone has issues with adding older guys for free.

 

[HawksDub89]

They need to start building towards a winner now. You can't let this 'it's ok to lose 2/3 of our games' culture continue, because it might be hard or impossible to break out of it if you think you can just flip a switch two of three years from now. If they keep kicking the can down the road and obsessing over draft picks, they're just going to be another Buffalo or Edmonton.

Bingo

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Teuvo Teravainen, that’s the guy you want in free agency. Would cost a pretty penny but would be excellent on Bedard’s wing.

Some of you went to Stan Bowman school of asset management. Pieces being moved better be for something better than a second line winger.

 

[Hawkaholic]

They need to start building towards a winner now. You can't let this 'it's ok to lose 2/3 of our games' culture continue, because it might be hard or impossible to break out of it if you think you can just flip a switch two of three years from now. If they keep kicking the can down the road and obsessing over draft picks, they're just going to be another Buffalo or Edmonton.

Not every team that does this turns into Buffalo or Edmonton, no UFA wants to go to those places, they would want to come to Chicago, massive difference.

 

[BHawk21]

Reichel 19th and 3rd for Necas Signed 8x8
Sign Chandler Stephenson 3 years 5 million
Sign Patrick Kane 3 years 5 million
Sign Ilya Lyubushkin 1 year 2 million
Sign Illya Samsonov 1 year 4 million
Draft Levshunov

Kurashev-Bedard-Necas
Stephenson-Nazar-Kane
Hall-Dickinson-Anthansiou
Foligno-Donato-Anderson
Blackwell

Vlasic-Jones
Korchinski-Murphy
Del Mastro-Lyubushkin
Kaiser

Mrazek
Samsonov

 

[WarriorofTime]

Then we’re talking about guys that fit the timeline and then talking about adding Teuvo or someone else for 5 years rather than give up a 1st rounder. That fits the timeline??

A 1st rounder that's a year younger than Bedard and the same age as 2024 Top 4 Pick fits the timeline better than a player 5 years older than Bedard and 6 years older than 2024 Top 4 Pick.

Not every team that does this turns into Buffalo or Edmonton, no UFA wants to go to those places, they would want to come to Chicago, massive difference.

Some of these Edmonton takes are outdated. They've been one of the best teams in the League for a while. If they win the Cup this year, I doubt their fans will be upset that it took about 25 straight years of picking top 10 to get there and end up with a McDavid/Draisaitl out of it.

 

[TLEH]

According to leftwinglock, his most common lines mates were Couturier/Koneckny, and Frost/Atkinson. Sure, give him 15 more points playing with Bedard. So he's a 65pt player. Kurashev is a 60pt player with Bedard. He's not miles better, in any aspect.

And the trade for Farabee wasn't jsut a 1st like I mentioned with Kurashev, it also had us adding Reichel AND Kaiser. lol


Big difference, TT would be a UFA add, not trading top assets for him. I dont think anyone has issues with adding older guys for free.

Farabees most common linemates 5v5 were Cates and Brink according to what I see. Played with Konecny and Couts on the PP.

Also you can definitely get players in the later half of the first round. I wouldn’t exactly call this draft the one that is going to have a high hit rate after 20. We also three second rounders. It’s not like trading 20 for a proven player is a horrible thing that’s going to screw the timeline on everything.

 

[HawksDub89]

The model is not Buffalo's worthless 27 point improvement to "bring in quality vets, give the kids a non-losing environment" as they grinded out a season to finish middle of the road in goals against. They got some quality goaltending out of Chad Johnson as well... that may have been the most worthless and costly part of their whole failed rebuild. Took them out of Matthews/Laine/Dubois/Keller/Tkachuk land and they got Alex Nylander at 8th instead with no excess 1st round pick and no excess 2nd round pick. So they got nothing out of that Draft other than drafting but not signing Hagel for some reason.

You keep saying “the model”

There isn’t a specific fool proof model here. Just assuming that being awful will lead to this unbelievable core in 5 years isn’t the grand plan you might think. This isn’t NHL 24. Players will leave and you’ll have a helluva time convincing FAs to come here under an established culture of losing. Not to mention there will be draft misses.

I whole heartedly agree in building through the draft, full stop. But Kyle has literally said that draft picks will also be used as “currency to add pieces to the roster” which is exactly what Farabee would be.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Teuvo Teravainen, that’s the guy you want in free agency. Would cost a pretty penny but would be excellent on Bedard’s wing.

Some of you went to Stan Bowman school of asset management. Pieces being moved better be for something better than a second line winger.

Good luck getting more than a second line winger with the 20th pick.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

You keep saying “the model”

There isn’t a specific fool proof model here. Just assuming that being awful will lead to this unbelievable core in 5 years isn’t the grand plan you might think. This isn’t NHL 24. Players will leave and you’ll have a helluva time convincing FAs to come here under an established culture of losing. Not to mention there will be draft misses.

I whole heartedly agree in building through the draft, full stop. But Kyle has literally said that draft picks will also be used as “currency to add pieces to the roster” which is exactly what Farabee would be.

Agree to disagree I guess.



Good luck getting more than a second line winger with the 20th pick.

Or we can keep the pick and and get a winger for quite literally free.

What is wrong with you people? Why are we so desperate to trade away picks during a rebuild? The roster is already pretty full next year, it’s so unnecessary.

 

[TLEH]

Or we can keep the pick and and get a winger for quite literally free.

What is wrong with you people? Why are we so desperate to trade away picks during a rebuild? The roster is already pretty full next year, it’s so unnecessary.

Full of ass players lol. 20 in this draft aint no guarantee either.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You keep saying “the model”

There isn’t a specific fool proof model here. Just assuming that being awful will lead to this unbelievable core in 5 years isn’t the grand plan you might think. This isn’t NHL 24.

This is a strawman. It's not trade a 1st for Farabee or do nothing but suck and tank for 5 more years and hope draft picks are good. You can sign free agents, acquire cap dumps for nothing, make prospect for prospect swaps, as well.

Players will leave and you’ll have a helluva time convincing FAs to come here under an established culture of losing. Not to mention there will be draft misses.

And a player that has been turned by their original drafting team into a merc that is here for four years won't consider leaving? Shocker, a 2nd line winger doesn't turn you from loser to winner. I don't care about draft misses. That's why you have pick volume. When you don't have pick volume, that's when draft misses become harmful. Your draft picks aren't able to leave for a much longer time period, at which point it becomes easier for them to establish roots, pressure on being a "one team guy", a group coming up together, etc.

I whole heartedly agree in building through the draft, full stop. But Kyle has literally said that draft picks will also be used as “currency to add pieces to the roster” which is exactly what Farabee would be.

I certainly hope there isn't some artificially imposed time pressure and the GM gets desperate for no reason because he's worried about job security. That's almost a certainty to get things off the rail.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Fair enough

 

[TLEH]

If it was last year I wouldn't even entertain moving the pick. But its the 2024 draft. This draft sucks overall.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Every draft can't be terrible. Go excess selections 2022-2026 Drafts, make picks, do stuff in the meantime that doesn't hurt your draft capital... Profit

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Full of ass players lol. 20 in this draft aint no guarantee either.

Are the Hawks trying to make the playoffs this year? They’re trying not to be bottom three, sure.

But Farabee isn’t the answer here. If the Hawks go into next year with Bedard, Nazar, Kurashev, Teuvo, Reichel and Celebrini luck permitting, or any other solid free agent instead of Teuvo, that’s a solid group going into next year.

Continue with the rebuild, do not throw assets away. You are just lacking patience.

 

[u2wojo]

No one is advocating the Buffalo you have to suck forever model (I don't think). There is nothing wrong with hoping you add a Bedard/Vlassic (upper half of an NHL roster) pair from your prospect pool and have a young guy that struggled/or was not what we envisioned take a leap ala Kurashev. Add a good (even if just a bottom pairing) RHD, a top 6 wing, middle 6 center (someone that can take faceoffs especially PK) and the waiver wire plugs/AHL level players like Entwhistle, Johnson, Anderson, Raddysh, Zaitsev, Tinordi, Menga go away from the lineup making the team better. Certainly not playoff better, but an incremental step where kids have more to develop with in the NHL, your prospect pool gets to marinate further, you add 7 more top 100 draft picks to the prospect pool (where hopefully 1 or 2 are only a year or so out from arrival). Next Summer you take another incremental step where you replace Hall, Anthanasiou, & Donato on the roster with a combo of kids and MAYBE...just maybe, if everything went well over the next year we can start fishing at the top end of the UFA market and be attractive enough to bring in a finishing piece the prospect pool has not developed internally (along with adding another good NHL player or two from the prospect pool).

There is a sweet spot in the middle between trying to cheat/short cut a rebuild by trying to trade away futures for immediate results a year and a half into it and going the continual rebuild for a decade plus mode.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Farabees most common linemates 5v5 were Cates and Brink according to what I see. Played with Konecny and Couts on the PP.

Also you can definitely get players in the later half of the first round. I wouldn’t exactly call this draft the one that is going to have a high hit rate after 20. We also three second rounders. It’s not like trading 20 for a proven player is a horrible thing that’s going to screw the timeline on everything.

I still dont get the thought of trading top assets for a 2nd line player, when you can get a 2nd line player for free in UFA. It just makes zero sense at this stage of the rebuild.

 

[TLEH]

Are the Hawks trying to make the playoffs this year? They’re trying not to be bottom three, sure.

But Farabee isn’t the answer here. If the Hawks go into next year with Bedard, Nazar, Kurashev, Teuvo, Reichel and Celebrini luck permitting, or any other solid free agent instead of Teuvo, that’s a solid group going into next year.

Continue with the rebuild, do not throw assets away. You are just lacking patience.

I don't expect them to be good next year and I don't lack patience I just think that adding a young forward that can play for the 20th pick is actually a good move. I expect them to pick 5th-9th next year. They're still going to be bad.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

I still dont get the thought of trading assets for a 2nd line player, when you can get a 2nd line player for free in UFA. It just makes zero sense at this stage of the rebuild.

Another note, Farabee has 4 years left on his deal, but it might take the Hawks three years to get to where they want to be. At that point, you’re having to re-sign Farabee. It just makes no sense.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Another note, Farabee has 4 years left on his deal, but it might take the Hawks three years to get to where they want to be. At that point, you’re having to re-sign Farabee. It just makes no sense.

Yeah, and his stats are bloated playing with Bedard, so you are probably overpaying for the player he actually is.

 

[TLEH]

I still dont get the thought of trading top assets for a 2nd line player, when you can get a 2nd line player for free in UFA. It just makes zero sense at this stage of the rebuild.

Well I don't think Farabee has become the player he can become and I think he can be a 70 point player in this league. You can sign 2nd liners but guys who already are who they are. Teuvo is who he is. DeBrusk is who he is.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Well I don't think Farabee has become the player he can become and I think he can be a 70 point player in this league. You can sign 2nd liners but guys who already are who they are. Teuvo is who he is. DeBrusk is who he is.

You could argue Farabee is what he is though. Maybe you don't think that's what he is, but chances are, it is. He had his best season to date this year, and it was still underwhelming. And if he does get better, it will be on the back of Bedard, so how much would it be him, and how much would it be Bedard. And then you are paying for that when we are actually ready to compete.

 

[TLEH]

You could argue Farabee is what he is though. Maybe you don't think that's what he is, but chances are, it is. He had his best season to date this year, and it was still underwhelming.

I mean I guess you could but I wouldn't buy that a players 23/24 year old season is the best he can be.

Konecny for example. Tage Thompson.