2024-25 Roster…too soon?

kmwtrucks

Registered User
Mar 11, 2014
1,858
651
yeah that's basically what Buffalo did and why they got caught in a forever rebuild with Eichel demanding out. Similar story in Arizona when Chayka was doing his thing and getting fined draft picks for illegal scouting combines
Columbus, Ottawa, also in the same boat.

I think you can upgrade the lineup. move out Raddseyh, tinordi, entwhitlse Reese johnson. Megna, TJ, blackwell, an example of guy you could get for nothing. IIlya Mikheyev making 4.75 for 2 more years. he is 4th liner on a good team and would be a upgrade for our 3rd line. my guess is you either get a small sweetner back or pay nothing just take his contract.
 

TLEH

Pronounced T-Lay
Feb 28, 2015
21,578
18,564
Bomoseen, Vermont
trading away assets to soon in a rebuild because you want to speed it up usually ends up in mediocrity. we can add 2 UFA's that are legit NHL players and make a few small trades for players that are NHL players just over paid for there production and stay healthy we will be way more competitive.
Depends on what the assets are. Missing at 20 could as easily be a problem as trading 20 for a player and wrongly accelerate the rebuild.

Not like we haven't had tons of picks. We also have 3 more 2nd round picks. We have a lot of prospects signing. You can't just only build through the draft. You need to supplement players from a variety of avenues.
 

dreadpirateroberts

Registered User
Nov 14, 2018
611
929
Seven Seas
If we got Celebrini, I would consider something like this:

Sign Kane, Stephenson and Noesen as forwards, Chatfield or Carrier for defense.

Trade Reichel, Kaiser, TBL and TOR picks for Martin Necas (Caroline could be motivated to keep other guys). Or Farabee honestly, good option too.

Noesen - Bedard - Kane
Stephenson - Celebrini - Necas
Hall (Moore) - Nazar - Kurashev
Foligno - Dickinson - AA
Donato

Vlasic - Jones
Del Mastro - Murphy
Korchinski - Chatfield
X

Mrazek
Stalock (Commesso)

This is probably too much too soon right? Otherwise we have the young core in place, and the main vets are good for another 4-5 years.

But yeah feels like fast tracking.
I think I'd rather trade for Farabee, given he's got 4 years left on his current deal. Traded Reichel, Kaiser, and 2024 1st round pick (Tampa) to Philadelphia for Farabee. Signed Stephenson, Noesen, Stolarz, and Carrier/Chatfield in FA.

I would be happy with something like this:

Farabee-Bedard-Noesen
Stephenson-Celebrini-Kurashev
Hall-Nazar-Foligno
Slaggert-Dickinson-Athanasiou
Donato

Vlasic-Jones
Korchinski-Murphy
Del Mastro-Carrier/Chatfield

Mrazek
Stolarz
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,541
20,618
Don't trade for Farabee, draft your own Farabee whose timeline lines up with Bedard. If you whiff, try again next year. If you still whiff, then acquire a Farabee level talent later on.
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
190,635
23,487
Chicagoland
Don't trade for Farabee, draft your own Farabee whose timeline lines up with Bedard. If you whiff, try again next year. If you still whiff, then acquire a Farabee level talent later on.

If 24 yr old Farabee is acquirable for futures and maybe a young kid or two that is expendable you pull trigger

4 years signed at reasonable deal and immediately gives team a top 6 LW and improves NHL roster

Also anyone you draft this year outside of top pick is years away from NHL

And again Hawks have assets to spend on young NHL talent in trades

Over the next 3 drafts we have

Hawks 2024 1st
Lightning 2024 1st
Hawks 2024 2nd
Canucks 2024 2nd
Kings 2024 2nd
Hawks 2025 1st
Leafs 2025 1st
Hawks 2025 2nd
Stars 2025 2nd
Hawks 2025 1st
Hawks 2025 2nd
Islanders 2025 2nd
Leafs 2025 2nd

Parlaying a few of these picks into NHL talent will not only help improve team but be good for kids on NHL roster to have NHL talent to play with
 

hockeydoug

Registered User
May 26, 2012
4,008
458
Besides two good players, I would say something along the lines of

Alec Martinez, William Carrier, and/or Cogliano.

Depth from draft picks isn't going to matter for a while. The team prepared like crap all year, and they were an emotional hot mess on the ice looking like a different group one period to the next. The lockerroom should be shaken up beyond just skill since this coaching staff is still going to be here fumbling about.

System has one more year before it's too big to manage well, so now is the last time for vets.

With a coaching staff still fumbling, and leadership in the locker room not having much winning or high expectations in their history, at least get some credible voices in there. Murphy and Foligno aren't going to be much healthier than they were this year.

Martinez will be banged up enough to not be in the way of too many shifts. Carrier is a real life NHL player and Cogliano has seen just about everything a wing can see in different roles and different scenarios with different systems and coaches while still staying healthy and knows how to prepare for a longer year. Maybe start getting some better habits going associated with expectations of winning in a few years from players with multiple long recent playoff runs under their belts.

I don't trust the health of Hall or AA too much as well. Vlasic took on a massive workload, so I think they should hedge against a little regression or wear and tear as well with a Martinez type.
 
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WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,541
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If 24 yr old Farabee is acquirable for futures and maybe a young kid or two that is expendable you pull trigger

4 years signed at reasonable deal and immediately gives team a top 6 LW and improves NHL roster
For right price, but his contract is free of any restrictions on trade, why wouldn't other teams be interested? It's a similar discussion with Batheron, with Farabee a bit younger, signed a year longer and on the flipside, being a bit less proven.
 
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Castle8130

Registered User
May 9, 2017
3,025
2,537
If you whiff twice and Bedard is 22 and you still suck, you probably don't have a job.
I second this. Known commodities like Farabee would be a great asset to a team that has very few. Drafting a bunch of players and hoping they turn out is a risk in itself. Look at Buffalo and Arizona. They rarely traded their picks and that resulted in eras of terribleness. They could’ve benefited by gaining other assets outside of prospects and picks.


Our prospect pool is already full of talent. We could really use some talent NOW. It’s going to be contract hell when all of our young guys become of age
 
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kmwtrucks

Registered User
Mar 11, 2014
1,858
651
KD said that finishing 2nd worst in the league was not acceptable for next year. but that did not mean playoffs. he is being realistic. he wants us to be more competitive. we can go from 52 to77 and cut our +/- in half to -55.5 and still be the 5-7th worse team in the league. we are not at a point to trade valuable assets. we are at point to understand that 25 year old fringe NHL players we can probably upgrade by using our cap space either by over paying on deals on players that are not at the point in age to get 4-5 year deals. 32/33 + guys. or take on contracts for players that are NHL players. kotkaniemi is younger farabee, is signed one more year plays center and has put up slightly less # in about 4-5 mins less per game. you could get him for basically nothing. is he worth 4.85 no. is a upgrade of entwhistle and raddyseh? Yes.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
32,339
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London, Ont.
I don't see the need to trade valuable assets for 24+ year old 50pt players. You can get 50pt players for free in UFA, you can overpay them a couple million bucks and only sign them for 2-3 years. Monahan, Drouin, Toffoli, Tarasenko, Domi, Kane, Bertuzzi, Sprong, etc. No need to trade valuable assets for these guys when you can have their talent for free.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,541
20,618
Look at Buffalo and Arizona. They rarely traded their picks and that resulted in eras of terribleness. They could’ve benefited by gaining other assets outside of prospects and picks.
July 1, 2014To Montreal Canadiens

MIN's 2nd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Josh Gorges
[13]
July 9, 2014To Winnipeg Jets

Conditional 7th-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Jordan Samuels-Thomas
[14]
[15]
February 11, 2015To Winnipeg Jets

Tyler Myers
Drew Stafford
Brendan Lemieux
Joel Armia
1st-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Evander Kane
Zach Bogosian
Jason Kasdorf

June 26, 2015To Ottawa Senators

NYI's 1st-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Robin Lehner
David Legwand
[17]
June 26, 2015To Colorado Avalanche

Nikita Zadorov
Mikhail Grigorenko
J. T. Compher
2nd-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Ryan O'Reilly
Jamie McGinn
June 20, 2016To Nashville Predators

MIN's 3rd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Jimmy Vesey (rights)
June 25, 2016To Florida Panthers

Mark Pysyk
2nd-round pick in 2016
STL's 3rd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Dmitry Kulikov
VAN's 2nd-round pick in 2016
[11]
July 2, 2016To St. Louis Blues

5th-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Anders Nilsson
June 17, 2017To Montreal Canadiens

3rd-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Nathan Beaulieu
[12]
June 21, 2017To Vegas Golden Knights

6th-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Expansion draft considerations[a]
[13]
June 30, 2017To Minnesota Wild

Tyler Ennis
Marcus Foligno
3rd-round pick in 2018
To Buffalo Sabres season

Jason Pominville
Marco Scandella
4th-round pick in 2018
[14]
October 4, 2017To Montreal Canadiens

Nicolas Deslauriers
To Buffalo Sabres

Zach Redmond
[15]
December 4, 2017To Detroit Red Wings

5th-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Scott Wilson
June 27, 2018To Pittsburgh Penguins

Conditional 4th-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Conor Sheary
Matt Hunwick
August 2, 2018To Carolina Hurricanes

Cliff Pu
2nd-round pick in 2019
3rd-round pick in 2020
6th-round pick in 2020
To Buffalo Sabres

Jeff Skinner
February 24, 2019To Anaheim Ducks

Brendan Guhle
Conditional 1st-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Brandon Montour
June 28, 2019To Vegas Golden Knights

STL's 2nd-round pick in 2021
5th-round pick in 2022
To Buffalo Sabres

Colin Miller
[93]
July 1, 2019To New York Rangers

3rd-round pick in 2021
To Buffalo Sabres

Jimmy Vesey
January 2, 2020To Calgary Flames

4th-round pick in 2020
To Buffalo Sabres

Michael Frolik
February 24, 2020To New Jersey Devils

Conditional 5th round pick in 2021
To Buffalo Sabres

Wayne Simmonds
 

Kevin Musto

Hard for Bedard
Feb 16, 2018
22,575
29,257
I don't see the need to trade valuable assets for 24+ year old 50pt players. You can get 50pt players for free in UFA, you can overpay them a couple million bucks and only sign them for 2-3 years. Monahan, Drouin, Toffoli, Tarasenko, Domi, Kane, Bertuzzi, Sprong, etc. No need to trade valuable assets for these guys when you can have their talent for free.
The guys you get in free agency are going to be older and won't fit the timeline. You're also not getting them locked up for 5M per.
 
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Paul Allen

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
682
363
Los Angeles
I see no problem with trading some draft assets and a prospect for an actual NHL forward. Along with signing a couple guys like Tuevo, Stephenson or Marchessault.

I wouldn't consider any of those moves "accelerating" the rebuild. They can't be bottom of the barrel one year, then contenders the next, got to take the steps to the top. Accelerating the rebuild would mean trading the likes of Nazar, Vlasic, Moore, or our first the next two years for someone that doesn't deserve that kind of return. Tampa's pick is on the table for me, for every Pastrnak taken in that range there are 10 Mark McNeills.
 

kmwtrucks

Registered User
Mar 11, 2014
1,858
651
July 1, 2014To Montreal Canadiens

MIN's 2nd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Josh Gorges
[13]
July 9, 2014To Winnipeg Jets

Conditional 7th-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Jordan Samuels-Thomas
[14]
[15]
February 11, 2015To Winnipeg Jets

Tyler Myers
Drew Stafford
Brendan Lemieux
Joel Armia
1st-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Evander Kane
Zach Bogosian
Jason Kasdorf
June 26, 2015To Ottawa Senators

NYI's 1st-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Robin Lehner
David Legwand
[17]
June 26, 2015To Colorado Avalanche

Nikita Zadorov
Mikhail Grigorenko
J. T. Compher
2nd-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Ryan O'Reilly
Jamie McGinn
June 20, 2016To Nashville Predators

MIN's 3rd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Jimmy Vesey (rights)
June 25, 2016To Florida Panthers

Mark Pysyk
2nd-round pick in 2016
STL's 3rd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Dmitry Kulikov
VAN's 2nd-round pick in 2016
[11]
July 2, 2016To St. Louis Blues

5th-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Anders Nilsson
June 17, 2017To Montreal Canadiens

3rd-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Nathan Beaulieu
[12]
June 21, 2017To Vegas Golden Knights

6th-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Expansion draft considerations[a]
[13]
June 30, 2017To Minnesota Wild

Tyler Ennis
Marcus Foligno
3rd-round pick in 2018
To Buffalo Sabres season

Jason Pominville
Marco Scandella
4th-round pick in 2018
[14]
October 4, 2017To Montreal Canadiens

Nicolas Deslauriers
To Buffalo Sabres

Zach Redmond
[15]
December 4, 2017To Detroit Red Wings

5th-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Scott Wilson
June 27, 2018To Pittsburgh Penguins

Conditional 4th-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Conor Sheary
Matt Hunwick
August 2, 2018To Carolina Hurricanes

Cliff Pu
2nd-round pick in 2019
3rd-round pick in 2020
6th-round pick in 2020
To Buffalo Sabres

Jeff Skinner
February 24, 2019To Anaheim Ducks

Brendan Guhle
Conditional 1st-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Brandon Montour
June 28, 2019To Vegas Golden Knights

STL's 2nd-round pick in 2021
5th-round pick in 2022
To Buffalo Sabres

Colin Miller
[93]
July 1, 2019To New York Rangers

3rd-round pick in 2021
To Buffalo Sabres

Jimmy Vesey
January 2, 2020To Calgary Flames

4th-round pick in 2020
To Buffalo Sabres

Michael Frolik
February 24, 2020To New Jersey Devils

Conditional 5th round pick in 2021
To Buffalo Sabres

Wayne Simmonds
AZ is one of the worst run franchise in all of sports using them as a way to look how to grow into a good team is not very smart. When you look at the Buff trades they were almost all bad. that why they have not had a 4-5 year rebuild they have had a 15 year rebuild. we are in year 2. Farabee is going to have no effect on us winning another stanley cup. Nazar, moore, rinzel, greene, Kantersov, who ever we take with our top 3 picks this year. you want to put serviceable players around them but you also want to add 2-3 young players to the mix.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,541
20,618
AZ is one of the worst run franchise in all of sports using them as a way to look how to grow into a good team is not very smart. When you look at the Buff trades they were almost all bad. that why they have not had a 4-5 year rebuild they have had a 15 year rebuild. we are in year 2. Farabee is going to have no effect on us winning another stanley cup. Nazar, moore, rinzel, greene, Kantersov, who ever we take with our top 3 picks this year. you want to put serviceable players around them but you also want to add 2-3 young players to the mix.
AZ traded a bunch of picks for like Stepan, Raantaa, Hall, Illegal Draft Combine, etc
 
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hockeydoug

Registered User
May 26, 2012
4,008
458
As long as they're 27 or younger, I'm good with a more serious acquisition.

3 picks in the top 50 is plenty to build a pool from given Danny spends plenty on hockey ops and fully to the cap limit. They're going to have extra prospects to acquire more picks.

Keep their own first and 2nd and then one extra in the 20-50 range per year and put all the rest of the picks in play for top 4/9 type talent. They'll be very lucky to land 1 top 6 out of all of those 4 extra picks the next 3 years anyway.

Nothing wrong with a few good older players on the roster with a young core.
 

Castle8130

Registered User
May 9, 2017
3,025
2,537
July 1, 2014To Montreal Canadiens

MIN's 2nd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Josh Gorges
[13]
July 9, 2014To Winnipeg Jets

Conditional 7th-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Jordan Samuels-Thomas
[14]
[15]
February 11, 2015To Winnipeg Jets

Tyler Myers
Drew Stafford
Brendan Lemieux
Joel Armia
1st-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Evander Kane
Zach Bogosian
Jason Kasdorf
June 26, 2015To Ottawa Senators

NYI's 1st-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Robin Lehner
David Legwand
[17]
June 26, 2015To Colorado Avalanche

Nikita Zadorov
Mikhail Grigorenko
J. T. Compher
2nd-round pick in 2015
To Buffalo Sabres

Ryan O'Reilly
Jamie McGinn
June 20, 2016To Nashville Predators

MIN's 3rd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Jimmy Vesey (rights)
June 25, 2016To Florida Panthers

Mark Pysyk
2nd-round pick in 2016
STL's 3rd-round pick in 2016
To Buffalo Sabres

Dmitry Kulikov
VAN's 2nd-round pick in 2016
[11]
July 2, 2016To St. Louis Blues

5th-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Anders Nilsson
June 17, 2017To Montreal Canadiens

3rd-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Nathan Beaulieu
[12]
June 21, 2017To Vegas Golden Knights

6th-round pick in 2017
To Buffalo Sabres

Expansion draft considerations[a]
[13]
June 30, 2017To Minnesota Wild

Tyler Ennis
Marcus Foligno
3rd-round pick in 2018
To Buffalo Sabres season

Jason Pominville
Marco Scandella
4th-round pick in 2018
[14]
October 4, 2017To Montreal Canadiens

Nicolas Deslauriers
To Buffalo Sabres

Zach Redmond
[15]
December 4, 2017To Detroit Red Wings

5th-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Scott Wilson
June 27, 2018To Pittsburgh Penguins

Conditional 4th-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Conor Sheary
Matt Hunwick
August 2, 2018To Carolina Hurricanes

Cliff Pu
2nd-round pick in 2019
3rd-round pick in 2020
6th-round pick in 2020
To Buffalo Sabres

Jeff Skinner
February 24, 2019To Anaheim Ducks

Brendan Guhle
Conditional 1st-round pick in 2019
To Buffalo Sabres

Brandon Montour
June 28, 2019To Vegas Golden Knights

STL's 2nd-round pick in 2021
5th-round pick in 2022
To Buffalo Sabres

Colin Miller
[93]
July 1, 2019To New York Rangers

3rd-round pick in 2021
To Buffalo Sabres

Jimmy Vesey
January 2, 2020To Calgary Flames

4th-round pick in 2020
To Buffalo Sabres

Michael Frolik
February 24, 2020To New Jersey Devils

Conditional 5th round pick in 2021
To Buffalo Sabres

Wayne Simmonds
The past 14 drafts, they have used and had atleast 1 pick in the top 15 of the draft. A lot of those trades you mentioned were for really poor assets or they were later picks. They drafted plenty of good long-term NHLers, but had to trade them away for more picks because they failed to build around them. Farabee could be a long-term asset
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
32,339
11,973
London, Ont.
The past 14 drafts, they have used and had atleast 1 pick in the top 15 of the draft. A lot of those trades you mentioned were for really poor assets or they were later picks. They drafted plenty of good long-term NHLers, but had to trade them away for more picks because they failed to build around them. Farabee could be a long-term asset
He could also be in that same type of chart, with other teams saying ,wtf did the Hawks, in the middle of a rebuild, trade top assets for Farabee? What a waste!
 

HawksDub89

Registered User
Apr 17, 2019
1,754
1,923
I'd do the Tampa 1st, Reichel, and whatever LD that's stuck in the logjam.

Farabee is good.

I think he’s better than he’s played the past two seasons. I think there’s more there. And sticking him next to Bedard would elevate his game.

I’d consider the Tampa 1st for him. (And a b prospect)
 

HawksDub89

Registered User
Apr 17, 2019
1,754
1,923
Don't trade for Farabee, draft your own Farabee whose timeline lines up with Bedard. If you whiff, try again next year. If you still whiff, then acquire a Farabee level talent later on.

This draft sucks. Drafting your own Farabee at 20 is going to be much harder than you think.

Tampa 1st isn’t an overpay fora 50-60 point cost controlled player.
 

HawksDub89

Registered User
Apr 17, 2019
1,754
1,923
reading this thread it’s very apparent that some of you think the plan is to ice a roster made up entirely of 23-25 year olds six years from now.

Just not realistic. They gotta add talent throughout the rebuild via trade and free agency. Signing a couple vets and adding a forward like Farabee doesn’t make this team a cup contender. They’ll still be picking 6-10 next year.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,541
20,618
reading this thread it’s very apparent that some of you think the plan is to ice a roster made up entirely of 23-25 year olds six years from now.

Just not realistic. They gotta add talent throughout the rebuild via trade and free agency. Signing a couple vets and adding a forward like Farabee doesn’t make this team a cup contender. They’ll still be picking 6-10 next year.
That's not what anyone is saying at all, I'm saying be patient, players become available later and you don't have to jump right in before you're ready. Foregoing the draft process because the player you pick may not be too good is lazy, you need to draft with quantity to form a nucleus. From there, you can fill in the holes based on where your prospect pool is lacking. Filling in holes prematurely doesn't make sense, you're not ready to compete yet and you don't know which prospects are going to come through.
 

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