Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[Cloned]

If you let Shatkins control a baseball team for 15 years the roster would have the highest defensive WAR in history with the lowest OPS in history.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Only thing that makes sense is they know Bo is gonzo soon enough and they got Gimenez to play SS. Which is his natural position apparently. Having a gold glove SS who makes 20 per (he's owed 97 over next 5) makes a lot more sense then a 2B when they can barely hit.

 

[Discoverer]

BTV is stating the exact opposite - that they've been overpaid.

What? It's saying the market doesn't pay for defense (or at least defense-first 2B) as highly as $/WAR would suggest. Their system sees it as such a huge loss for the Jays because they did pay market value for it here.

 

[Cloned]

Also it’s going to be really annoying when Horwitz at some point puts up a 20 HR/70 RBI season with a .750+ OPS meanwhile Jimenez puts up a 5/30/.650.

It’s hilariously bad that they’re doubling down on run prevention as a focus when run scoring has been the biggest problem the last 2 years.

 

[Discoverer]

The money's already running thin, and they haven't addressed any of the key needs on the roster.

To be fair, we don't actually have the slightest clue how much they have available to spend. Reports have regularly been way off over the years when reporters try to figure it out.

 

[tmlfan98]

Ken Rosenthal had reported earlier in the day that the Jays, Yankees, Red Sox and Giants were the 4 main contenders for Burnes. Nothing confirmed yet but I think heavy reading between the lines can be done at this point with the Yankees signing Fried.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

... why would you want your favourites team best player be a tough sign because you hate the front office?

like what are we doing here.

Because the way they've handled him is a joke, trying to low ball him arbitration last year, trading guys like Teo and Gurriel Jr players who were close to him, they don't seem to care about him. Vladdy said last season he would consider the Yankees when before he never would have, him liking a post in a Red Sox uniform. Shapiro when asked if he thinks Vlad is a generational player his response "I don't know, generational player,"

So yeah hopefully he plays hardball with them, because it's a joke that they're still here. The real question is what are Shatkins doing here.

 

[Kurtz]

What? It's saying the market doesn't pay for defense (or at least defense-first 2B) as highly as $/WAR would suggest. Their system sees it as such a huge loss for the Jays because they did pay market value for it here.

Giménez is a glove-first second baseman, an archetype that we've found has historically been valued significantly lower than a straight $/WAR

What they're saying is that the defense first archetype is overvalued in $/WAR calculation (the point I've been making) - meaning the WAR figure is inflated for this archetype.

This is why they're placing such negative value on his contract. It wouldn't make sense to interpret that statement the way you are suggesting given their drastically negative valuation of the deal compared to the guy's $/WAR, which is extremely favourable at under $4m per WAR.

 

[phillipmike]

I’ll be the first to say I’m not for this trade at first glance. But this model said we won the Varsho trade which I think is an even trade but many here don’t think that.

So I wouldn’t buy into it too much;



Like the Varsho trade, Gimenez trade makes sense if you are acquiring offense shortly after. Jays didn’t do a lot of of that after the Varsho deal even though Belt turned out to be a good signing. But this only works if they do more.

Problem with Horwitz is/was his fit next season. If he is a .800+ OPS guy, then it’s a loss. But with Wagner at 2B and Vlad at 1B, Horwitz is a DH in 2025 and if he is in the mid .700s or lower, he is a bad DH.

Gimenez bat needs to improve but another elite glove, great base runner and a lefty bat is always nice to have.

It may not be great value but it makes the team better and will be seen a lot better IF they add more offensive bats.

 

[shaner8989]

Burnes would be a monster add

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Couldn't we have just played Leo Jimenez/Orelvis/Wagner and Ernie Clement in the infield, with Bo and Vlad, saved the $97 million owed to Giménez, and used that money to add a bat?

Honestly, it's hard to justify paying over $23 million in a year for a second baseman who's primarily a defensive specialist (basically Teo money in 2027), especially when the team needs two bats, a starter, and a closer.

It feels like they're running this franchise into the ground, and it's really disappointing to watch. The money's already running thin, and they haven't addressed any of the key needs on the roster.

I gotta think they're moving Bo for a haul and installing Jimenez at short. He's not as elite defensively there but still above average. I think he's at least a 2-WAR shortstop without the bat, and if he somehow remembers how to hit you got a 3.5 to 4 WAR shortstop.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

ATKINS shouldn’t be allowed to make any more deals.

 

[habamillions]

Burnes would be a monster add

Yes would make the jays rotation top 5 in the league. But they would still need to add more money on the offense as that is the biggest need

 

[Dr.Funk]

Yes would make the jays rotation top 5 in the league. But they would still need to add more money on the offense as that is the biggest need

I would expect a Bassitt trade if we signed Burnes

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

'We'll miss him': Atkins on dealing home-grown Horwitz to Guardians

1:15 | December 10, 2024

Ross Atkins speaks to Hazel Mae about losing Spencer Horwitz in a trade for Andres Gimenez and Nick Sandlin, lists his tenure with the Blue Jays organization, and shares his reaction upon hearing the news.



Atkins praises Gimenez's defence, Sandlin after Blue Jays acquire duo

1:22 | December 10, 2024

Watch as Ross Atkins confirms the latest additions of Andrés Giménez and Nick Sandlin from the Guardians and what each brings to the Blue Jays.

Just listening to this guy is so annoying now, he just says the same crap every year.

 

[habamillions]

I would expect a Bassitt trade if we signed Burnes

Definitely. Im sure they try to trade springer too but that will be harder

 

[Canada4Gold]

Another negative in this trade is going to be the amount of confusion between Leo Jimenez and Gimenez. It's going to be so awful. Like just give Leo away because I don't want to deal with it kind of annoying. People are so so bad at spelling names correctly.

 

[habamillions]

Another negative in this trade is going to be the amount of confusion between Leo Jimenez and Gimenez. It's going to be so awful. Like just give Leo away because I don't want to deal with it kind of annoying. People are so so bad at spelling names correctly.

Imagine buck martinez

 

[Ale Brew]

I would expect a Bassitt trade if we signed Burnes

Would have to be, unless Rogers is really pushing for a competitive team and agreed to up the budget significantly.

I think we’re around $225 right now, with a $240 first tax bracket. A Burnes signing alone likely puts us at $255-260, which is close to the second threshold. And we still haven’t added a bat, which we absolutely NEED. So Bassitt is gone or we have a much bigger budget than they’ve let on.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Ken Rosenthal had reported earlier in the day that the Jays, Yankees, Red Sox and Giants were the 4 main contenders for Burnes. Nothing confirmed yet but I think heavy reading between the lines can be done at this point with the Yankees signing Fried.

I watched Burnes very closely this past year. He strikeout rate plummeted and he was an extremely mediocre pitcher for the bulk of the summer. Had a good start and had a decent finish to September.

I said in August that I would not want to be the team that overpays him. Here we are.

I'll add that a plummeting K rate will require good D so perhaps there is a connection.

I agree with others that Bo walks as well.

 

[habamillions]

I watched Burnes very closely this past year. He strikeout rate plummeted and he was an extremely mediocre pitcher for the bulk of the summer. Had a good start and had a decent finish to September.

I said in August that I would not want to be the team that overpays him. Here we are.

I'll add that a plummeting K rate will require good D so perhaps there is a connection.

I agree with others that Bo walks as well.

I agree. Thia contract will age like springers. Maybe get 2-3 years of solid play

 

[matand]

Burnes would be a monster add

Him and sasaki are the 2 guys they jays really need to go after, also getting rid of bassit if you can.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm not a huge fan of Burnes(I almost spelled that incorrectly after my last post, oops) but this management group has earned my trust when dealing with FA starting pitching. Despite my hesitation I'm way more confident it would work out than any bat they sign for that reason alone.

 

[matand]

Would have to be, unless Rogers is really pushing for a competitive team and agreed to up the budget significantly.

I think we’re around $225 right now, with a $240 first tax bracket. A Burnes signing alone likely puts us at $255-260, which is close to the second threshold. And we still haven’t added a bat, which we absolutely NEED. So Bassitt is gone or we have a much bigger budget than they’ve let on.

If they were willing to sign soto at 46m a year that means we do have a bigger budget as long as it makes the jays competitive every year I am sure Rogers will give them the budget they need.

 

[Starry Knight]

Trading away Horwitz, you kind of need to add a high-impact DH or it doesn't make sense. Horwitz was slightly flawed as a platoon bat, which would make someone like Santander more efficient in that roster spot. At the same time Horwitz made peanuts and Santander is probably going to get paid for his home run numbers.

Not a big fan of the trade, but it's not the end of the world. Don't think it makes the Jays more or less competitive -- just different.