Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread
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KelVarnsen
Registered User
So does Mctavish…..and I’d argue Hughes offense is better than Mctavish’s offense. Mctavish seems pretty uninterested in defense as well. I’d take Hughes all day!
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Mac's offense is more advanced than Hughes' offense, especially when comparing rosters. This past season, Mac proved that he can produce offense despite playing like shit. Why he was playing was shit is still to be determined. I think he was playing injured and partly this coaching staff. Under Eakins, Mac was more reserved offensively and better defensively. This season, he would be cheating offensively by taking off early in the Dzone.
A healthy Mac actually carried Vatrano and Strome to start the season. That's pretty impressive.
Hopefully, Mac can dial up his focus on defense for this off-season.
KelVarnsen
Registered User
I disagree and take Hughes over Mac.
I do hope, like you do, that Mac can improve defensively. I also hope he actually makes it to 75+ games this year.
I had Hughes at #1 even over Power. So you're preaching to the choir... But saying McTavish was a bad pick over someone picked behind him that is better is kind of dumb. It isn't a science. Was Pat LaFontaine a bad pick because he went the pick before Stevie Y? I don't think so.
But yes, the whole point is I have learned to trust our scouts. It doesn't mean they are always right (Tracey) but there are a lot more times we they went "off the board" and we thought they were wrong (Lindholm, Montour, etc) that turned out not to be true.
Short memories about McTavish...in the first 20 or so games last year he was a dominant player at over a PPG pace until the injuries began. If he and Zegras both have healthy years I could see 60 and 80 points, respectively from them.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
If that’s the approach then like every Ducks first rounder outside of Kariya and maybe/probably Getzlaf are bad picks. Lindholm might not go top 10 in a 2012 redraft, was he a bad pick? I definitely wouldn't say so. If a pick hits I always think that makes it a good one.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
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duxfan1101
Registered User
The points were good, but he was still a heavy minus during that period. He was giving up more than he was getting.
Mac so far has seemed ill-equipped for the length of an NHL season.
Depending on how you value goalies and what you think of Morgan Rielly and Jacob Slavin, Lindholm is between the 4th and 8th best player from the 2012 draft. He's behind Hellebuyck, Vasilevskiy, and Forsberg for sure. After that, he's right there with anyone else. He's definitely not falling out of the top ten.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
Most ones I’ve seen have him out. Definitely up for debate in a lot of spots but IMO not in the top six at the very least. That isn’t the point though, one of the guys definitively in front of him was someone a lot of people wanted in that spot at the time, yet I just can’t say that’s a bad pick.
He’s definitely behind Slavin as well and I don’t really see the argument for being over Reilly. I never said he wasn’t right there with others but I can easily see how someone would have five others ahead of him.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I dunno about that.
Mac
2022-23: 80 games, ATOI = 15:22 (Rookie season, D+2)
2023-24: 64 games, ATOI = 16:17
Only five players played more games than Mac in 2022-23: Fowler (82 games), Strome (82), Zegras (81), Vatrano (81), and Silf (81).
This past season, only three players played in 80 or more games: Vatrano (82 games), Fowler (81), and Silf (81). Crazily enough, Mac's 64 games played ranked as the 11th most on the team.
IMO, I think Mac pushed himself too much last year, including playing through injury until he couldn't. For example, I know he hurt his back in game 20, but played an additional 4 more games. In that fourth game, he played only 2:33. We all witnessed Mac wearing a boot one day in the Ducks' suite and the next day was on the ice. That's not normal to be playing through injury, but it is under Verbeek.
It made it more astounding hearing Minty and Carlsson also playing through injury while stating it was the first time they have ever had to do it during a Duck Stream podcast. Minty played 63 games as a rookie (D+2), far fewer games than Mac as a rookie. Carlsson got injured while being on load mgmt.
The only youth healthy for the whole season was LaCombe, iirc. The only reason he didn't notch 82 games was because he was put onto a rotation, not because of injury.
I don't see it. Lindholm's undoubtedly one of the top 10 players from that draft. His defensive value surpasses Rielly's offensive value, which has been artificially boosted by playing with elite offensive players.
But even if you have him behind Slavin and Rielly, I don't see a legitimate argument for anyone else. You'd have to ignore defensive value, in which case, you'd have to ignore Slavin as well. He has been an absolute defensive beast for all of his career, and his offense has been decent.
Even in hindsight, Lindholm isn't going later than 8th in that draft, and I'd be perfectly happy drafting him 6th again.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Utilizing Hockey-Reference's Point Share rating, Lindholm ranks 5th overall - ahead of Rielly and Slavin. The top-3 are all goalies: 1. Hellebuyck, 2. Vasilevsky, and 3. Freddy Andersen (Ducks drafted).
Terry Yake
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2013
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The Lindholm selection has been heralded for years as being a savvy and shrewd move around here. Lindholm was a nice player but his time here is celebrated too much by our forum IMO. As @AngelDuck said, Forsberg would’ve been a better choice. Rielly going a slot before makes sense because he’s better IMO and definitely brings a rarer skillset (ie, it’s easier to find guys like Hampus)
I guess i just don’t agree at all with giving the Lindholm pick a lot of praise while criticizing the McTavish pick when it perhaps was the better of the two.
I guess i just don’t agree at all with giving the Lindholm pick a lot of praise while criticizing the McTavish pick when it perhaps was the better of the two.
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Sean Garrity
Quack Quack Quack!
I agree with your point TMDM, but IMO He’s closer to discussion for #1 overall than being outside the top 10. I’d take Vasi over him, but next closest arguments are Reilly, Helly, Slavin, and Forsberg.
DavidBL
Registered User
Ya I count 8 guys total who are even close and 2 of them are goalies. Others are guys like Trouba and Pelech who I take Hampus before forsure. The only guys forsure are Vasi, Halebuck, Reilly, and Forsberg.
70sSanO
Registered User
Not criticizing the Lindholm pick.
We would never pick him that high, and despite the hate, putting Tom Wilson in the 2015 playoffs against Chicago would have been worth it.
John
Edit added: Or anytime against the Kings.
We would never pick him that high, and despite the hate, putting Tom Wilson in the 2015 playoffs against Chicago would have been worth it.
John
Edit added: Or anytime against the Kings.
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Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Using TOI to argue he can handle the rigors of an NHL season is like using TOI to argue that Fowler can handle the rigors of being an elite top pairing defenseman. McTavish’s play and production has dramatically fallen off both years come the second half of the season. Injuries cut both ways - it can be an excuse for a drop in the production, but also evidence that his body isn’t ready for the rigors of the amount of hockey he’s been tasked with.
I think it’s actually very normal for NHL players to be playing while not 100%, and there are quite a number of them saying it, they use phrases like “hurt but not injured”.
As would I. I mentioned him above as being definitely ahead of Lindholm. Sorry, my last comment might have been misleading without that context.
I would take Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, Forsberg, and maybe Slavin over Lindholm in that draft. Rielly is good and I understand why people like him, but I prefer Lindholm. After that, there are some good names, but none I'd take over Hampus.
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