Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[ToneDog]

It's not me that framed games 5,6,7 as the only games that count, so you are saying that there is more to a player than just 3 isolated games every series? this pitch fork crowd cant even agree upon what is and isn't relevant... talk amongst yourselves and then come back to us on what you feel is important...it's really a just a simple binary choice.

All games are important, it is just that games 5-7 seem to be harder to win because there is a shorter runway. Mitch, Panarin, Johnny Hockey (and possibly Petey) are similar players who's games have not translated well to the playoffs. Mitch's problem is that he does not have a prime Crosby and Malkin like Kessel did. Crosby never laughed when he was rag dolled and Malkin could step up when Crosby was out.

IMO none of the 3 amigos are alphas. They can be successful in the playoffs but not as a trio IMO. I mean if they were good enough, you'd think they would get together and say enough is enough boys. Let's show the non believers and get this f***ing monkey off our backs. But here we are about to try for a 9th time.

 

[GoonieFace]

Yes, and he still led them in points, truly an amazing player.

Kind of like leading the Washington Generals in scoring I guess.

Raw points are such a terrible way to gauge performance. But you guys can keep pumping his playoff tires.

 

[Hellcat]

All games are important, it is just that games 5-7 seem to be harder to win because there is a shorter runway. Mitch, Panarin, Johnny Hockey (and possibly Petey) are similar players who's games have not translated well to the playoffs. Mitch's problem is that he does not have a prime Crosby and Malkin like Kessel did. Crosby never laughed when he was rag dolled and Malkin could step up when Crosby was out.

IMO none of the 3 amigos are alphas. They can be successful in the playoffs but not as a trio IMO. I mean if they were good enough, you'd think they would get together and say enough is enough boys. Let's show the non believers and get this f***ing monkey off our backs. But here we are about to try for a 9th time.

So McDavid who scored zero points in game 6 and 7 is not an Alpha?

I've heard that Mitch's PPG over the last three years comes with and asterisk because , he scored in bunches, because he didn't perform well in games 5, 6, 7 does McDavids scoring this past playoffs also comes with and asterisk?

- Matty zero points game 5, zero points game six, a measly assist in game 7 - asterisk
- JT a measly assist in game 5, zero points game six, zero points in game 7 - asterisk

We should probably turf them to the garbage heap, the only person who showed up was Willie, 3 goals games 6 and 7, ipso facto by Pitch Fork definition Wille > McDavid...

Kind of like leading the Washington Generals in scoring I guess.

Raw points are such a terrible way to gauge performance. But you guys can keep pumping his playoff tires.

Especially when you have an untenable position and the raw points dont support your position. Your thoughts on the Art Ross Trophy?

 

[Leafs87]

Just speculation and probably not unique at that but seems we reached that point where he is being forced out. He banned media from his event. Really hope the Leafs have a plan here. Otherwise we’ll lose him for nothing.

 

[Nineteen67]

17 points in 18 games.

Sure, i’ll take your word on the stats.

We know why you won’t evaluate his play even though it’s obvious that you agree with everyone else. You saw it too and know it wasn’t good enough.

 

[Nineteen67]

Dude you lose all credibility when you use McDavid to defend Marner in the playoffs. That MOFO dragged a team with a goalie and defense as bad as ours to game #7 of the SCF. Mitch dragged the Leafs to the first tee.

The funniest part is they agree with us that Marner et al have never been good enough. There’s no one person that watched the Boston series this year that felt Marner had a great series. Nobody! But for some reason they refuse to say it out loud. Another thing, they didn’t say squat immediately after the series when it was fresh in their minds.

It doesn’t matter, looks like the Leafs are giving the core another crack and it could be devastating to the franchise if they bow out in round one, he walks next July and they get nothing for him. I would not want to put my hopes in Matthews and Nylander going forward.

 

[Sypher04]

So McDavid who scored zero points in game 6 and 7 is not an Alpha?

I've heard that Mitch's PPG over the last three years comes with and asterisk because , he scored in bunches, because he didn't perform well in games 5, 6, 7 does McDavids scoring this past playoffs also comes with and asterisk?

- Matty zero points game 5, zero points game six, a measly assist in game 7 - asterisk
- JT a measly assist in game 5, zero points game six, zero points in game 7 - asterisk

We should probably turf them to the garbage heap, the only person who showed up was Willie, 3 goals games 6 and 7, ipso facto by Pitch Fork definition Wille > McDavid...

I’ve agreed with a lot of what you’ve said re: Marner, and I also don’t agree with putting asterisks on his production either. However I’m not sure where you are going with this part about Matthews exactly?

If you’re pointing to this past playoff only, then Matthews didn’t play either game 5 or 6 because he was out with injury, so he didn’t have 0 in these games. He didn’t participate.

If you’re looking at the last 3 years then it’s just wrong.

Last 3 years:
Game 5s: 3gp, 2g, 0a (TBL, TBL, FLA)
Game 6s: 2gp, 2g, 0a (TBL, TBL)
Game 7s: 2gp, 0g, 2a (TBL, BOS)

 

[Hellcat]

I’ve agreed with a lot of what you’ve said re: Marner, and I also don’t agree with putting asterisks on his production either. However I’m not sure where you are going with this part about Matthews exactly?

If you’re pointing to this past playoff only, then Matthews didn’t play either game 5 or 6 because he was out with injury, so he didn’t have 0 in these games. He didn’t participate.

If you’re looking at the last 3 years then it’s just wrong.

Last 3 years:
Game 5s: 3gp, 2g, 0a (TBL, TBL, FLA)
Game 6s: 2gp, 2g, 0a (TBL, TBL)
Game 7s: 2gp, 0g, 2a (TBL, BOS)

lustrating that selective framing can tell any story you want it to tell.

 

[Nineteen67]

lustrating that selective framing can tell any story you want it to tell.

How would you evaluate his play in those games?

Put it on a scale of 1-10 if you want.

 

[keonsbitterness]

How would you evaluate his play in those games?

Put it on a scale of 1-10 f you want.

37

 

[Nineteen67]

37

That’s a pretty good score.

If the GMs around the league had the same evaluation it’s surprising they couldn’t move him.

 

[francis246]

Just speculation and probably not unique at that but seems we reached that point where he is being forced out. He banned media from his event. Really hope the Leafs have a plan here. Otherwise we’ll lose him for nothing.

He banned the media because he wanted the focus to be on the charity event and what they are raising the money for. He doesn’t want it to become all about his status with the leafs and trade talk. Training camp will be filled with that and he will be obligated to answer those questions then. But right now he’s doing something for a good cause, there really isn’t a need to invite that type of negativity into the event.

Don’t really see a problem with that.

 

[Racer88]

He banned the media because he wanted the focus to be on the charity event and what they are raising the money for. He doesn’t want it to become all about his status with the leafs and trade talk. Training camp will be filled with that and he will be obligated to answer those questions then. But right now he’s doing something for a good cause, there really isn’t a need to invite that type of negativity into the event.

Don’t really see a problem with that.

He banned them because…….he is a god and they are mere mortals

 

[Gabriel426]

Our playoffs records sucks.
Our 10mil plus forwards over the past 6 playoffs choked.
Congrats to the best of those three, as the tallest of the hobbits is still half the size of an alpha.

 

[Leaf Fans]

That’s a pretty good score.

If the GMs around the league had the same evaluation it’s surprising they couldn’t move him.

That is just made up. It is unclear whether the Leafs have any interest in moving him.

 

[Antropovsky]

That is just made up. It is unclear whether the Leafs have any interest in moving him.

If you didn't want to move Marner...you wouldn't let him take the harassment/heat he's currently taking.

If Marner had been approached about a new deal (as speculated) he could easily say, "my agent and Leafs are talking and I want to be here forever..we will see how's things go". He's no longer saying this (like he did at the end of the playoffs)...he's gone completely silent. If he was offered something, even low balled, at least he could relieve some of the heat on himself by saying we've talked about an extension.

Both sides are quiet.... obviously there is some tension between Treliving and Marner camp.

My opinion

Tree approached him... "Mitch controls alot of this whole thing" ... and Marners camp said absolutely not - hell no...hence Berube "looking forward to coaching him".

 

[arso40]

If you didn't want to move Marner...you wouldn't let him take the harassment/heat he's currently taking.

If Marner had been approached about a new deal (as speculated) he could easily say, "my agent and Leafs are talking and I want to be here forever..we will see how's things go". He's no longer saying this (like he did at the end of the playoffs)...he's gone completely silent. If he was offered something, even low balled, at least he could relieve some of the heat on himself by saying we've talked about an extension.

Both sides are quiet.... obviously there is some tension between Treliving and Marner camp.

My opinion

Tree approached him... "Mitch controls alot of this whole thing" ... and Marners camp said absolutely not - hell no...hence Berube "looking forward to coaching him".

exactly

 

[Leaf Fans]

If you didn't want to move Marner...you wouldn't let him take the harassment/heat he's currently taking.

If Marner had been approached about a new deal (as speculated) he could easily say, "my agent and Leafs are talking and I want to be here forever..we will see how's things go". He's no longer saying this (like he did at the end of the playoffs)...he's gone completely silent. If he was offered something, even low balled, at least he could relieve some of the heat on himself by saying we've talked about an extension.

Both sides are quiet.... obviously there is some tension between Treliving and Marner camp.

My opinion

Tree approached him... "Mitch controls alot of this whole thing" ... and Marners camp said absolutely not - hell no...hence Berube "looking forward to coaching him".

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Confucius]

If you didn't want to move Marner...you wouldn't let him take the harassment/heat he's currently taking.

If Marner had been approached about a new deal (as speculated) he could easily say, "my agent and Leafs are talking and I want to be here forever..we will see how's things go". He's no longer saying this (like he did at the end of the playoffs)...he's gone completely silent. If he was offered something, even low balled, at least he could relieve some of the heat on himself by saying we've talked about an extension.

Both sides are quiet.... obviously there is some tension between Treliving and Marner camp.

My opinion

Tree approached him... "Mitch controls alot of this whole thing" ... and Marners camp said absolutely not - hell no...hence Berube "looking forward to coaching him".

Not a very good negotiating tactic is it? I love your house and want to live there forever. Do you want to sell? How much?

 

[Hellcat]

If you didn't want to move Marner...you wouldn't let him take the harassment/heat he's currently taking.

If Marner had been approached about a new deal (as speculated) he could easily say, "my agent and Leafs are talking and I want to be here forever..we will see how's things go". He's no longer saying this (like he did at the end of the playoffs)...he's gone completely silent. If he was offered something, even low balled, at least he could relieve some of the heat on himself by saying we've talked about an extension.

Both sides are quiet.... obviously there is some tension between Treliving and Marner camp.

My opinion

Tree approached him... "Mitch controls alot of this whole thing" ... and Marners camp said absolutely not - hell no...hence Berube "looking forward to coaching him".

LOL, dude you live in a fantasyland, what is daddy Tree going to say to stop all the speculation click bait and the idiot fans who are obsessively fixated on Mitch? Tree says something the wackos dont like and now they are fixated on him. You only have to look at this thread as proof positive that the pitch fork crowd does not listen to facts, reason or common sense. Their bloodlust for trading a winger who is in the top 10 of scoring since he entered the league is as illogical as it sounds the problem.

Tree has already said that Mitch is a super star and don't believe the rumors you hear about Mitch, does that sound like a GM that intent on trading one of the best wingers in the game? Berube has said he looks forward to coaching Mitch, doesn't sound like a coach that expects Mitch to be traded. For most reasonable people this would be enough.

“No update on Mitch,” Treliving said via Terry Koshan of the Toronto Sun. “Mitch is a great player. We’re lucky to have him … Craig (Berube) alluded to it at his last press availability. He’s excited to coach him and we move forward. Mitch is training, preparing, getting ready for the season.”​

​

“The thing I would say is, be very, very careful of what you read out there,” Treliving told LeBrun. “Mitch is a hell of a player. He’s going into the last year of his contract. We’re not going to comment on any players. Any business that we conduct, we’ll do that between (Marner’s agent) Darren Ferris and us. We’re not going to do play-by-play on it. We’ve got to look at every possible way for our team to be better.​

​

"I'd caution us to not pay too much attention to some of the noise," Treliving told reporters, according to TSN's Chris Johnston. "We can't react to all of the noise. ... Mitch knows how I feel about him as a player."​

Is the bold part clear enough for you?

 

[Hellcat]

Good time to pause and take a look at this living legends HOF career.

(Club ranking)

445 career assists - 5th all time leader
0.79 assists per game - 2nd all time leader
639 points - 8th all time leader
110+ 8th all time leader
1.11 points per game 5th all time leader
51.7 Offensive point share 6th all time

As Brad says .. "We are lucky to have him" ... Kudos Mitch on your great career!

 

[ACC1224]

Good time to pause and take a look at this living legends HOF career.

(Club ranking)

445 career assists - 5th all time leader
0.79 assists per game - 2nd all time leader
639 points - 8th all time leader
110+ 8th all time leader
1.11 points per game 5th all time leader
51.7 Offensive point share 6th all time

As Brad says .. "We are lucky to have him" ... Kudos Mitch on your great career!

Has his playoff performance, particularly games 5-7 been mentioned yet?

 

[Hellcat]

Not a very good negotiating tactic is it? I love your house and want to live there forever. Do you want to sell? How much?

LOL , right?

How much for the car?

I dunno I'm really desperate, I need to sell it right away, I'm really rich and I dont need the money so what ever you feel is fair I will take, I guess?

 

[Hellcat]

Has his playoff performance, particularly games 5-7 been mentioned yet?

I dunno.. I'm so confused on the moving goal posts ... I think games 5 through 7 only count if you are Mitch ... Games 1 through 82 count for any other elite goal scorer... if you are not Mitch and have great playoff stats that counts but not for Mitch... he is selfish but yet clearly there are multiple videos of him blocking shots shots when the game is on the line but that does not count because .. Mitch. He comes back from a high ankle sprain but that does not count because ... Mitch... He scores at a PPG for the last 3 years and I guess a PPG is not good because ...Mitch... He is not focused on his nutrition and the gym.. except for all the news articles on Mitch's dedication to the gym and nutrition but those article do not count because ... Mitch... he is greedy and selfish except for his charities and his charity work but that does not count... because you guessed it ...Mitch ... he scores in bunches ..that is apparently bad but every other elite scorer does this that is good ... but not for Mitch ... aggregate career stats are not a good measurement for Mitch but they are for other players .... the team has failed 8 years in a row but it is only Mitch's fault.. the other guys get a pass because their name is not Mitch ... He cant shoot but his career shooting percentage is around 13%, 10% is generally considered good but not for Mitch... I guess that is supposed to make sense .... up is down down is up.... what is real anymore?

 

[Shooter2x]

Dude you lose all credibility when you use McDavid to defend Marner in the playoffs. That MOFO dragged a team with a goalie and defense as bad as ours to game #7 of the SCF. Mitch dragged the Leafs to the first tee.

McDavid had a rough 3 year stretch relative to his talents before popping off for 33 points in 16 games.

9 points in 13 games

Only 1 win against the Hawks in qualifiers

Only 1 goal and swept by the Jets.

Then you need to consider one thing: Our core will NEVER miss the playoffs (excluding 3 month layoff covid), whether as rookies, in their prime or trailing off in their Tavares years. Harder division as well. McDavid can't say the same thing. He hasn't made the playoffs in all his seasons. His overall game (200ft) isn't as superior as matthews and marner to overcome flaws in D and G that end up knocking the Oilers out.

If you want to weigh everything, McDavid does take the W due to the massive points when he does pop off in the playoffs, but overall we shouldn't ditch our core because it's fully possible and should be expected that they dominate the playoffs at least once or twice before they retire. There is a Cup to be had here before we abandon them.

Who knows maybe next season is their "McDavid" season where the sweep to the Jets finally woke him up to putting up video game stats in the playoffs. Things are bad for the core right now, next playoffs will be their chance for redemption.