Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency - Offseason Edition

[the_fan]

So what is exactly a player assistance program? It’s just go do whatever you want for 6 months you just don’t get paid and can’t play in the NHL?

 

[The Abusement Park]

He's a cap dump for Boston, not for us that is coming off a horrible playoff run. How hard is it for you to understand this? Blud, do I need to send you some Kumon gift cards?

Boston has 20mil in cap space and only has Debrusk and Swayman as major re signings? He’s just not in buyout/cap dump territory all.

 

[Bender]

So what is exactly a player assistance program? It’s just go do whatever you want for 6 months you just don’t get paid and can’t play in the NHL?

Sounds like it. Big surprise....

Would love to know what happens if he gets seriously injured in a game playing in that league while he's suspended from the NHL. What happens to his contract then?

 

[Murzu]

If the Preds do re-sign Saros, trade Rants to them for Askarov and all the other futures

I have to make sure that I got what you mean here. You're not saying "Askarov and a lot of other futures", you're saying "Askarov and all the other futures"?

 

[henchman21]

So what is exactly a player assistance program? It’s just go do whatever you want for 6 months you just don’t get paid and can’t play in the NHL?

It varies by what the issue and stage is. Some players may just need time away and a therapist... some may need full Betty Ford. Many players enter stage 1 without missing a game or fans even knowing about it. Stage 2 is undefined in time, but no pay. Stage 3 triggers the minimum suspension and the first application for reinstatement. Stage 4 increases the suspension and another application for reinstatement, with clearly less of a chance of being approved... though there has to be a chance or there would just be a cutting off.

 

[the_fan]

It varies by what the issue and stage is. Some players may just need time away and a therapist... some may need full Betty Ford. Many players enter stage 1 without missing a game or fans even knowing about it. Stage 2 is undefined in time, but no pay. Stage 3 triggers the minimum suspension and the first application for reinstatement. Stage 4 increases the suspension and another application for reinstatement, with clearly less of a chance of being approved... though there has to be a chance or there would just be a cutting off.

It just seems like it’s not a player assistance program, it’s just a suspension without pay

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sounds like it. Big surprise....

Would love to know what happens if he gets seriously injured in a game playing in that league while he's suspended from the NHL. What happens to his contract then?

Feel like termination would be an easier case in the scenario no?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I have to make sure that I got what you mean here. You're not saying "Askarov and a lot of other futures", you're saying "Askarov and all the other futures"?

I want Askarov as the primary piece....as well as all their other future pieces

 

[henchman21]

It just seems like it’s not a player assistance program, it’s just a suspension without pay

It's kinda both... and the latter is why some players refuse to enter. Scott Darling's opinion is pretty widely shared.

 

[chet1926]

I want Askarov as the primary piece....as well as all their other future pieces

Like what? Their prospect pool outside Askarov is mid to bad, their picks are middling, and their young roster talent is middling at best.

They are literally the most mid team ever. Outside Askarov they have no interesting moveable pieces. They aren't moving Josi, Forsberg, or Saros which are the only interesting pieces outside Askarov.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Like what? Their prospect pool outside Askarov is mid to bad, their picks are middling, and their young roster talent is middling at best.

They are literally the most mid team ever. Outside Askarov they have no interesting moveable pieces. They aren't moving Josi, Forsberg, or Saros which are the only interesting pieces outside Askarov.

Matt Wood, Svechkov, L'Heureux, Evangelista, Kemell

 

[AslanRH]

It just seems like it’s not a player assistance program, it’s just a suspension without pay

Except there is a modicum of negotiated job protection.
In Val's case, it is possible that he could have been deemed "unable/unfit to play" by the team which prompted the entry to PAP again. Without the PAP, since it would be the 2nd time during the playoffs no less that he is unfit due to a non-play related injury, the Avs could likely use that as the grounds for termination without much pushback from the NHLPA.

 

[the_fan]

It's kinda both... and the latter is why some players refuse to enter. Scott Darling's opinion is pretty widely shared.

Yeah but if the player is allowed to go anywhere he wants, even to another country, and do anything he wants when he has drug problems, what type of assistance is the program giving him and why is it called a player assistance program? Don’t they have some kind of drug counseling or something that will actually help the player get off drugs?

 

[chet1926]

Matt Wood, Svechkov, L'Heureux, Evangelista, Kemell

Those guys move the needle for you? Yikes.

If they move Rants it better for a solid already established younger roster player (like 60 pts forward) and a top prospect at minimum.

You can't just give away a 100 pts forward for prospects and hope it works.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah but if the player is allowed to go anywhere he wants, even to another country, and do anything he wants when he has drug problems, what type of assistance is the program giving him and why is it called a player assistance program? Don’t they have some kind of drug counseling or something that will actually help the player get off drugs?

It depends, but typically drug related issues go outpatient, inpatient rehab, longer inpatient rehab, then even longer inpatient rehab. The length will vary widely... there isn't a one size fits all for the different drug addictions that can be stipulated... and even if they could, it likely wouldn't be allowed by the NHLPA.

 

[Balthazar]

So what is exactly a player assistance program? It’s just go do whatever you want for 6 months you just don’t get paid and can’t play in the NHL?

I talked about it in the other thread, no player with addiction should ever ask for help since the PAP may (and will) use it against you to suspend you without pay.

Teams, on the other hand, not only won't suspend you but they'll protect your ass as much as they can to keep it under the rug.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[the_fan]

It depends, but typically drug related issues go outpatient, inpatient rehab, longer inpatient rehab, then even longer inpatient rehab. The length will vary widely... there isn't a one size fits all for the different drug addictions that can be stipulated... and even if they could, it likely wouldn't be allowed by the NHLPA.

Outpatient rehab still requires counseling and drug testing. Does the NHL PAP has that if the player is allowed to go to another country while being in the program? That’s what i don’t get

 

[henchman21]

Outpatient rehab still requires counseling and drug testing. Does the NHL PAP has that if the player is allowed to go to another country while being in the program? That’s what i don’t get

We clearly don't know the details, but I'd be shocked if there were not options in other countries.

 

[Balthazar]

We clearly don't know the details, but I'd be shocked if there were not options in other countries.

In Russia though? Come one now.

 

[henchman21]

In Russia though? Come one now.

Why wouldn't there be options in Russia? The NHL is an international game where ~6-7% of the league is Russian. It would make sense to have an option for those players in their native country. Just the same as Sweden, Finland, Canada, etc. There's likely a difference in care (which is a whole different debate)... but we shouldn't pretend that drug addiction and thus acceptable rehabilitation only exists in NA.

 

[LOFIN]

I talked about it in the other thread, no player with addiction should ever ask for help since the PAP may (and will) use it against you to suspend you without pay.

Teams, on the other hand, not only won't suspend you but they'll protect your ass as much as they can to keep it under the rug.

Absolutely rubbish. If the player doesn't go to the program, that's essentially a free pass for the team to terminate the contract. You don't have to keep addicts (or mental health cases) in your team. If they apply for the program, you have to. This is basically how it is an all trades that have programs for substance abuse. You get caught once, you might not get fired but forced to enter a program. Refuse to do it, you are fired.

The NHL/NHLPA program is there to help players keep a hold on to their contracts. That's why all these players enter it. If they didn't, the NHLPA couldn't do shit if they get terminated, I doubt they would even bother to grieve because that would be a legal suicide.

 

[henchman21]

Absolutely rubbish. If the player doesn't go to the program, that's essentially a free pass for the team to terminate the contract. You don't have to keep addicts (or mental health cases) in your team. If they apply for the program, you have to. This is basically how it is an all trades that have programs for substance abuse. You get caught once, you might not get fired but forced to enter a program. Refuse to do it, you are fired.

The NHL/NHLPA program is there to help players keep a hold on to their contracts. That's why all these players enter it. If they didn't, the NHLPA couldn't do shit if they get terminated, I doubt they would even bother to grieve because that would be a legal suicide.

It is really both... contracts can be terminated (when active) even if a player has gone through the PAP, but players with issues do get a modicum of protection if they can get their shit together.

Scott Darling has a very biased perspective on the program, but he's clearly been through it and has been loud on his opinion as to why players should avoid it.

 

[LOFIN]

It is really both... contracts can be terminated (when active) even if a player has gone through the PAP, but players with issues do get a modicum of protection if they can get their shit together.

Scott Darling has a very biased perspective on the program, but he's clearly been through it and has been loud on his opinion as to why players should avoid it.

We are not going to get over another fight over this. But my point is rather that if the player refuses to get help via the NHLPA program, they don't have a case to grieve if the contract is terminated. No, you don't have too keep drug addicts who refuse to seek help in your organization. Not in any field of business. And if the PA would grieve, there would absolutely be a court case all the way through, to establish this fact. No matter what the cost. Because the club would have all the fodder, the PA would have f***ing nothing on the case.

If they seek help, that's a completely another story. And the reason why the players do get help. This is why these programs exist, and not just in the NHL. For basically your average Joe jobs as well.

 

[henchman21]

We are not going to get over another fight over this. But my point is rather that if the player refuses to get help via the NHLPA program, they don't have a case to grieve if the contract is terminated. No, you don't have too keep drug addicts who refuse to seek help in your organization. Not in any field of business. And if the PA would grieve, there would absolutely be a court case all the way through, to establish this fact. No matter what the cost. Because the club would have all the fodder, the PA would have f***ing nothing on the case.

If they seek help, that's a completely another story. And the reason why the players do get help. This is why these programs exist, and not just in the NHL. For basically your average Joe jobs as well.

Fight seems aggressive

There is almost no case where it is a free case of termination. There are cases of fringe players not being fought for, but most any player with term and money on the contract gets fought for. The NHLPA can fight any termination, for any grounds even if it is legitimate. Whether they win or not is a completely different story. If a player refuses to go, or arguably worse enters the program and leaves… it still sets up for a battle. It doesn’t change the ability to grieve.

 

[LOFIN]

There is almost no case where it is a free case of termination.

Because the players would like to have their money. So they comply and go into the program.

it still sets up for a battle. It doesn’t change the ability to grieve.

Sure, you can grieve anything and sue anyone for anything. Whether that makes sense is another topic.