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Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

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dredeye said:
Did you look at his defensive numbers by chance when you looked at his numbers? He was an elite defensive fielder that they projected 30 to 35hr pop from in the al east. That’s a solid return for the package. I very much wanted Kirk to the catcher traded at the time but that doesn’t mean the jays kept Kirk over Moreno. It may have been Moreno or no deal. That stuff we’ll never know. Gurriel was a throw in coming off of an awful season who held really no value. He had a bounce back season. Good for him.
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That's assuming their projections materialize, which they didn't and may not. One season in and the D'backs package produced 1.5WAR more than our return. Varsho has 3 more seasons of control, and Moreno 6. Even if they both produce the same amount of WAR through the length of those years the D'backs win. Varsho would have to significantly outperform Moreno (+2-3WAR) over the next two years just to make the trade a wash.
 
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MK78 said:
I kept saying that they should have traded Kirk right after the all star game last year - that was when he was at his highest possible value. it was all downhill from there, and this entire season.

Should have called up Moreno and let him play along with Jansen.
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That's patently ridiculous. When was the last time a young player having a breakout MLB season at a premium position was traded after the all-star break? That's why keyboard warriors are where they are...and not in positions of influence in professional sports. Although, after the analytics driven disaster last week...I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe we should both get our resumes warmed up...
 
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barilko05 said:
That's patently ridiculous. When was the last time a young player having a breakout MLB season at a premium position was traded after the all-star break? That's why keyboard warriors are where they are...and not in positions of influence in professional sports. Although, after the analytics driven disaster last week...I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe we should both get our resumes warmed up...
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Only because of Kirk's position (catcher), short stature and body size.

Catchers break down faster than other position players. doesn't help if they're short and fat.

I don't see a long future for Kirk in the league because of it.
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
That's assuming their projections materialize, which they didn't and may not. One season in and the D'backs package produced 1.5WAR more than our return. Varsho has 3 more seasons of control, and Moreno 6. Even if they both produce the same amount of WAR through the length of those years the D'backs win. Varsho would have to significantly outperform Moreno (+2-3WAR) over the next two years just to make the trade a wash.
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Projections are assumptions champ. That’s how it works. Moreno’s power and bay were a concern with him but the dbacks bet on his projections. That’s how trading for young players works. I don’t your logic with the war part of it. I thought we should have received another piece in the deal but like you I don’t make those decisions. Gurriel Jr was a poor fielding lf who lost all his power when we moved him. Like I’ve already said he bounced back and that’s great for him.
 
dredeye said:
Projections are assumptions champ. That’s how it works. Moreno’s power and bay were a concern with him but the dbacks bet on his projections. That’s how trading for young players works. I don’t your logic with the war part of it. I thought we should have received another piece in the deal but like you I don’t make those decisions. Gurriel Jr was a poor fielding lf who lost all his power when we moved him. Like I’ve already said he bounced back and that’s great for him.
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Exactly, champ. You act like the fact that they "projected it" is enough to justify the deal. You can project up your ass till you're blue in the face, but you don't get credit for what could/should/might have been, big boy. The deal will be judged based on the results not on some hypothetical world where one set of expectations come true. So far advantage Arizona. We'll see what your Varsho can do over the next few seasons.

You don't get the logic of using WAR to determine value? Let me explain it to you big guy. WAR is the amount a player contributes to wins versus a replacement level or average player. Teams/agents/stats nerds use it to determine how valuable a player is for the purposes of trades, salary, etc. If one player gives you 2WAR a year over 6 years, that provides more value than a player providing you the same over 3 years. That's why years of control matter in trades.

You can shit on Gurriel all you want but he still produced exactly 0.1 less WAR than the main piece we got back in a trade, and he was just a throw in. If he sucks, what does that say about what we got. lol
 
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TheMadHatTrick said:
That's assuming their projections materialize, which they didn't and may not. One season in and the D'backs package produced 1.5WAR more than our return. Varsho has 3 more seasons of control, and Moreno 6. Even if they both produce the same amount of WAR through the length of those years the D'backs win. Varsho would have to significantly outperform Moreno (+2-3WAR) over the next two years just to make the trade a wash.
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Small correction but Moreno has 5 more years of control, not 6. As you correctly point out, Varsho does has 3 years left.
 
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'Just an embarrassment:' Major League Baseball managers are grossly underpaid

Of the 30 managers in baseball, only six of them are scheduled to earn at least $3M in 2024 while 15 others earned $1.75M or less this season.
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• There’s not a soul in the industry that believes Mets GM Billy Eppler simply resigned over MLB’s investigation of improper use of the injured list. This has been an ongoing practice by front offices for decades, and there hasn’t been a single warning given to teams, according to one high-ranking official.

The punishment for first-time offenders is nothing more than a wrist slap, not resigning from one of the best jobs in baseball, and perhaps out of the game forever.

The investigation originally started from an anonymous letter inside the Mets organization accusing Eppler of misconduct. MLB is expected to examine cell phones, text messages, e-mails and medical reports of Mets’ officials, while also speaking to players.

• Matt Klentak, former GM of the Philadelphia Phillies, has emerged as a candidate for the Mets’ GM opening along with former Houston Astros GM James Click, who’s working for the Toronto Blue Jays.
 
dredeye said:
Hazel hit the nail right on the head. Zero accountability for anyone. Atkins calling pulling Berrios brave is terrifying on its own.
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After all that's been learned since the Atkins conference, the average fan knows that Atkins lied and he should realize this and step down as GM.
 
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I'm really surprised the Sportsnet people really going hard at Atkins for that presser.

Rogers may have no choice but to sack him for it. Shit happens, teams lose. but take some damn accountability sometimes.
 
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