dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,492
- 3,155
I love that every Toronto beat writer is pooping on the front office. It’s the best thing to come of all of this. They aren’t holding back
Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray
- Thread starter The Nemesis
- Start date
I love that every Toronto beat writer is pooping on the front office. It’s the best thing to come of all of this. They aren’t holding back
I don't know how anyone can bear watching/listening to Atkins speak at this point. Reading it is hard enough.
The media is crapping on management so Rogers might be more open to some changes.
Although hockey starting might be a cover for them.
I don’t know about that man. This isn’t like it’s a fringe minority of people who are crapping on them. As a matter of fact It actually seems nearly unanimous… and something the media or the fans will not soon forget.
Hockey starting up may mask that for a couple of months but I can’t imagine the fans forgiving and forgetting come spring training next March.
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the valiant effort
settle down, bud
- Apr 17, 2017
- 5,158
- 6,330
I don’t know how you can follow this team over the last few seasons and conclude the club has been in a positive space regarding leadership and accountability. This is a perforated organization floating miles from land.
TheMadHatTrick
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2008
- 7,120
- 3,274
It’s almost like we knew. Weird eh. I can’t believe these morons are still running this team. Absolute f***ing mockery.
Where’s all the idiots saying….. but but Varsho this and Varsho that. Good times.
They're catchers NOT back catchers. It does look like they did get rid of the wrong catcher unless Kirk can get back to 2022 allstar level again.
GoonieFace
Registered User
Calling it a train wreck is a bit of an exaggeration. I mean, there is no doubt that the call in game was Schneiders call. I guess some people just like to drum up the drama
MK78
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2023
- 2,538
- 1,736
Kirk was only gonna get fatter, and he did. lol.
While he's not a liability behind the plate yet, his offense has been crap, an almost instant double play whether he's at 1st base or batting with a runner on 1st, and then just a liability on the bases not being able to score from 2nd or a sac fly on anything but a ball caught at the warning track.
I'm trying to recall who, during the 2022 season, a lot of posters were saying in this thread they wouldn't trade Kirk for, considering him near untouchable. It was a really good player too, but the name is eluding me.
I personally never understood the Kirk fascination. He's a short, portly, slow catcher with marginal offensive capabilities and respectable defensive abilities. He's useful, but definitely not untouchable.
I personally never understood the Kirk fascination. He's a short, portly, slow catcher with marginal offensive capabilities and respectable defensive abilities. He's useful, but definitely not untouchable.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,492
- 3,155
Just gonna put it out there that the Dbacks don’t exactly have other good catchers which is why they wanted him.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
It's not drama. This situation has been universally mocked by knowledgeable baseball people and media alike. It will be remembered as one of the most boneheaded moves a team has ever made. And Atkins didn't help matters throwing Schneider under the bus. There is no doubt this was an organizational decision to take out Berrios. Hence, "trainwreck" is a perfect word to describe this situation.
That actually makes it worse imo. Somehow we got fleeced trading the best catching prospect in MLB by a team desperate for a catcher...
???????….. It’s not a trainwreck??? Really???
Atkins openly throws Schneider under the bus saying that the decision to pull Berrios was Schneider‘s idea (Which I don’t believe BTW but that’s another rant for another time) And then after admitting that, he announces Schneider is coming back 10 minutes later…. and that’s not a trainwreck????
That doesn’t help Shatkins case. In fact it makes them look worse.
So, they got hosed in a trade by a team who was desperate for a catcher????
Just said almost the exact same thing before seeing your message. Lol.
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Rude Dog
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2008
- 4,331
- 3,447
I couldn’t stand that trade from the moment it was announced. If it was a package for a legit star or front of the rotation pitcher I could justify it. But when I looked at Varsho’s numbers i was confused. Obviously I was missing something. Hoping this isn’t the Jays Version of Pogge over Rask. And Shapiro blasted AA for trading prospects.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,333
- 21,930
AA traded for pending FA's and/or players on the downside. Shapiro/Atkins deserve every bit of the criticism they get and more, but this is not the same at all. It was prospect for young controllable player.
LaP
Registered User
Not only that but the Jays gave them a player who could offensively replace Varsho in the trade. So they were only losing Varsho defense for this season as Gurriel offensively is as good as Varsho.
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GoonieFace
Registered User
Yes media is what we should rely on for their knowledge of situations. This team is hardly a trainwreck, consider yourself lucky you don’t cheer for a lot of other major league teams. It was not an organizational decision to pull Berrios there. There was scenarios laid out for sure, but I bet none of them said pull him if he is dominating after 3 innings. That was Schneiders call.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
The post you responded to stated "what a trainwreck this situation is". The taking out of Berrios is what he was alluding to. The team is not a trainwreck, not with that pitching staff and having won 89 games with that offence, manager and general manager.
The management is undoubtedly a trainwreck, particularly after having heard Atkins being so obtuse with regards to knowing about the plans. Kikuchi was warming up from the first inning, the plan was for him to come into the game because Berrios doesn't pitch well to left handers. Schneider is an idiot for not having pride to stand up and change a plan that should not have been executed once Berrios was pitching so well.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,492
- 3,155
No it doesn’t. We traded from a position of strength as did the Dbacks.
You were both wrong
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,492
- 3,155
Did you look at his defensive numbers by chance when you looked at his numbers? He was an elite defensive fielder that they projected 30 to 35hr pop from in the al east. That’s a solid return for the package. I very much wanted Kirk to the catcher traded at the time but that doesn’t mean the jays kept Kirk over Moreno. It may have been Moreno or no deal. That stuff we’ll never know. Gurriel was a throw in coming off of an awful season who held really no value. He had a bounce back season. Good for him.
tmlms13
Registered User
I think the problem was not that we got rid of the wrong one it's that we couldn't get anything useful for Kirk. Only way to get something useful was trading Moreno.
This has real Pogge vs Rask vibes though.
MK78
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2023
- 2,538
- 1,736
I kept saying that they should have traded Kirk right after the all star game last year - that was when he was at his highest possible value. it was all downhill from there, and this entire season.
Should have called up Moreno and let him play along with Jansen.
