Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[Suntouchable13]

So he's a liar too? This is a bold faced lie. Just trying to protect his ass. I don't like this one bit.

 

[stickty111]

"I know players went into John's office after the game and basically said we know it wasn't your decision to pull Berríos." - Dan Shulman on Blair & Barker yesterday.


Someone is lying here. Or being mislead.

It's bad either way. If it was Schneider's call which it wasn't completely, so why are we bringing the manager back who makes a decision like that?
If it wasn't his call, then Atkins isn't taking ownership.

 

[GoonieFace]

This thread is like something out of the Real Housewives series.

No one was thrown under the bus. They provide the data and probably have plans in place, but ultimately it’s the managers call in game. Schneider may have felt some pressure to pull him there, but he certainly wasn’t forced to. Not sure how many analytic models endorse pulling out a starting pitcher who just threw 39 pitches in 3 dominant innings.

 

[Eyedea]

It's bad either way. If it was Schneider's call which it wasn't completely, so why are we bringing the manager back who makes a decision like that?
If it wasn't his call, then Atkins isn't taking ownership.

Atkins defended Schneider, Mattingly, and Walker by saying the pitching management was a strength all season long including that game. Even though the decision was “unique”, the pitching gave up two runs. He put the blame on himself for placing too much belief in the offence turning it around.

 

[capfit9]

It’s not a good sign when the press doesn’t believe the story the gm is putting out there


If this is even remotely true he should be fired on that call alone. I don’t trust it was his decision but whoever made it should not be back. No consequences for that decision is unacceptable. Looks like I won’t be watching next year. Also it wasn’t a brave call it was a horrible call to pull Berrios. I’d feel the same even if Kikuchi had a clean inning

According to Atkins, Kikuchi allowing two runs was a solid outcome in that situation. Go figure.

 

[Cloned]

Jays are gonna fumble the bag with this core, just like Cheveldayoff did in Winnipeg.

Although the Jays don’t have the excuse of tiny market and small budget that the Jets did.

Keeping both Atkins and Schneider is such a loser move. One of them (at least) had to go.

 

[Dave92]

Jesus christ fire this guy

 

[capfit9]

It's bad either way. If it was Schneider's call which it wasn't completely, so why are we bringing the manager back who makes a decision like that?
If it wasn't his call, then Atkins isn't taking ownership.

trust in this organization has been irreparably damaged from fans to management to coaches to players to the media.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Shapiro better step in and do something or say something. Ultimately, this on him .

 

[Dave92]

"I know players went into John's office after the game and basically said we know it wasn't your decision to pull Berríos." - Dan Shulman on Blair & Barker yesterday.


Someone is lying here. Or being mislead.

If the players really went in and talked to the manager about a pitching change after they scored 1 run in 2 games he should have just laughed at them.

 

[stickty111]

Atkins defended Schneider, Mattingly, and Walker by saying the pitching management was a strength all season long including that game. Even though the decision was “unique”, the pitching gave up two runs. He put the blame on himself for placing too much belief in the offence turning it around.

What do the overall pitching and offense have to do with that decision? It was a bad decision. Other aspects being good or bad doesn't mean that decision was good. Good on him for admitting offense wasn't good when the season is over. He had a chance to add offense and didn't. He doesn't get credit for that.

 

[Suntouchable13]

In defence of Atkins, there wasn't much out there to add in terms of bats.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I think the "assurance" of Schneider is hollow for the time being because it is possible Atkins gets fired and the new GM gets to make his decision.

(I say this knowing Atkins is Shapiro's guy, so the chances of that are slim)

 

[Hannibal]

Atkins is a *****.

 

[tmlfan98]

I think ownership will mandate Shapiro to fire both Atkins and Schneider, likely resulting in Shapiro promoting James Click to GM. What's Shapiro going to do, refuse? Schneider specifically being a mandated firing by Shapiro from ownership frees Click of having to weigh whether to hold Schneider to start and save a bullet in his chamber.

 

[PanniniClaus]

I felt the only way back for John was if the front office took responsibility for the Berrios issue... It would have made John look weak but would have made some sense. I still don't feel any self respecting baseball person would have pulled Berrios , so if John made that decision then he can't continue. But yet he will.

 

[MK78]

I admit I will watch on tv but promise not to attend a single game (I usually attend a half dozen games a season) cause I’m a Jays fan since I attended their opening game in 1977. Only when avg attendance dips below an avg of 18 000 will ownership get rid of Shatkins.

Yes, I agree that the attendance will probably suffer, especially if there are not some changes made.

 

[Eyedea]

What do the overall pitching and offense have to do with that decision? It was a bad decision. Other aspects being good or bad doesn't mean that decision was good. Good on him for admitting offense wasn't good when the season is over. He had a chance to add offense and didn't. He doesn't get credit for that.

They did try, I think they just got stuck with their secondary options. Bellinger and Yoshida in the offseason, a reunion with Teo midseason. Those were in the cards but never came to fruition. Probably for the better in Yoshida’s case.

And the decision to switch pitchers is only getting significant traction because the Jays gave up 2 runs afterward and lost the game by that score. If the offence had done their job there would’ve been a game 3. It’s the same criticism that fell on Cash for pulling Snell.

 

[Cloned]

This front office is completely dysfunctional. It’s unreal that both Atkins and Schneider will be back, even moreso since the former just threw the latter under the bus.

 

[Eyedea]

The comment that spoke most volumes to me was that Atkins said they erred on the side of not enough information (for game planning hitters). The too many cooks in the kitchen idiom is irrelevant because it looks like the cooks didn’t even use a recipe.

 

[Hellcat]

That was not a ballpark weiner...

 

[horner]

Some is not telling the truth.

 

[tmlms13]

I hate this team even more now.

If this really was 100% on Schneider Atkins should at least give the token answer and deflect some blame onto himself. That's what good bosses do when when they see their employee getting torched in the media.

If this was a decision pushed by Atkins and analytics dept and he just fed us an hour of bullshit he should be fired on the spot.

Either way I now officially hate Atkins with every part of my body. He tried to make himself completely blameless and is coming off even worse.

I hope Schneider responds to this getting thrown under the bus.

 

[Cloned]

The players probably have no trust in this front office anymore.

Next season could be disastrous. Atkins completely fumbled the bag here. If it wasn’t an actual clusterf*** before, it definitely is now.

Watching perpetually rebuilding teams like the Orioles and Diamondbacks pass us like a stranded motorist. Texas re-entered suckage at around the same time the Jays did, and they’ve already made it further. Watch KC win a playoff game before we do, lol.

 

[KapG]

what a gutless presser.

I will do my best to not watch a single inning outside of some jays in 30 episodes