Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[Clark4Ever]

I agree with the criticism of Schneider's management of the pitching staff, but that's not why we lost the series.

Scoring 1 run in 2 playoff games is not going to get it done under any circumstances.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah, it's probably not a coincidence that Canadian MLB fans who grew up on Don Cherry thinking and who idolize players like Captain Serious Jonathan Toews as their athlete ideal get extra triggered by things that go against this but are perfectly culturally normal in another sport.

The reaction to the HR jacket was absolutely insane. Every single other MLB team was doing something like this (and the vaunted Orioles do something much sillier) and the Jays were the only team that had to stop because fans got upset about players having fun. And this year's HR jacket is now that the players had a totally standard party, and the expectation appears to again be that they should be the only team not celebrating or having fun.

People may consider your opinion if you weren't insulting them in the opening sentence. Do better, stop being so insecure.

 

[LaP]

What would you guys think of a trade of Vladdy to SD for one of their 4 shortstops? Seong-Kim + prospects then move Bichette to 3B or 2B?

I think unless the prospect would be a high quality first base prospect ready to play this would be a Varsho like trade i.e. a trade who would rely on Kim being able to replicate a career year and become a late bloomer which imo is wishful thinking. Kim on average is a pretty average hitter and far worse than Vlad. Maybe he is a late bloomer but betting on it would be extremely risky. He's also 28 so if he's a late bloomer it will be short lived like Smoak.

There was lot of talk about Varsho being offensively better than Gurriel at the beginning of the season. But most of it was based on Varsho (career year) and Gurriel (career low in term of HR and RBI) last season. In career Gurriel on average (over 162) has better offensive stats than Varsho and it's not that close when it comes to RBI in favor of Gurriel. That trade was going to be good only if Varsho was able to replicate a career year. Yeah the sample size of 3 seasons was thin but usually after 3 seasons you start to have a good idea of what a player in his prime is capable of doing.

 

[MS]

People may consider your opinion if you weren't insulting them in the opening sentence. Do better, stop being so insecure.

How is that insulting?

Don Cherry thinking is incredibly ingrained into Canadian sports fandom.

I include myself in that even, and I catch myself defaulting to those sorts of positions fairly often just because I've been surrounded by that mentality my whole life.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think unless the prospect would be a high quality first base prospect ready to play this would be a Varsho like trade i.e. a trade who would rely on Kim being able to replicate a career year and become a late bloomer which imo is wishful thinking. Kim on average is a pretty average hitter and far worse than Vlad. Maybe he is a late bloomer but betting on it would be extremely risky. He's also 28 so if he's a late bloomer it will be short lived like Smoak.

There was lot of talk about Varsho being offensively better than Gurriel at the beginning of the season. But most of it was based on Varsho (career year) and Gurriel (career low in term of HR and RBI) last season. In career Gurriel on average (over 162) has better offensive stats than Varsho and it's not that close when it comes to RBI in favor of Gurriel. That trade was going to be good only if Varsho was able to replicate a career year. Yeah the sample size of 3 seasons was thin but usually after 3 seasons you start to have a good idea of what a player in his prime is capable of doing.

Not that I want Kim, but I don’t think you’re correct. Bautista bloomed at like 30, and did not fall off till he was 37. EE, I think at 28 and did not fall off till about 36-37. Smoak just wasn’t a good player who had a fluky year once. If Kim is a late bloomer, I don’t think it’s that much of a gamble that it will be short lived.

 

[justashadowof]

That's just not remotely true.

Yes Atlanta had a lot of talent, but he's the guy that acquired MVP candidate Matt Olson, All-Star catcher Sean Murphy, closer Iglesias, Ozuna, Arcia, Rosario, etc. And he gave up relatively little for all of those guys and signed all of their key guys to great contracts.

Atlanta's 2021 World Series team consisted almost entirely of talented inherited by AA. Yes he's successfully raided the A's since then.

 

[MS]

Atlanta's 2021 World Series team consisted almost entirely of talented inherited by AA. Yes he's successfully raided the A's since then.

The Olson signing was also not really a big move forward as much as it was a great recovery from bungling the re-signing of Freeman who wanted to stay there.

 

[justashadowof]

How is that insulting?

Don Cherry thinking is incredibly ingrained into Canadian sports fandom.

I include myself in that even, and I catch myself defaulting to those sorts of positions fairly often just because I've been surrounded by that mentality my whole life.

I enjoy the sight of the athletes I root for acting cool in triumph not like 8 year olds on a sugar high. I also admire acting out respect for your opposition rather than taunting them. Is that Don Cherry thinking? I just thought it was grown ass adult thinking.

When I agree wholeheartedly with Sid Seixeiro on something, you know it was a catastrophic f*** up. LMFAO.

I'm not watching anything that abomination of a human being says because it may change my mind out of the desire to never think like that mental midget.

 

[MS]

I enjoy the sight of the athletes I root for acting cool in triumph not like 8 year olds on a sugar high. I also admire acting out respect for your opposition rather than taunting them. Is that Don Cherry thinking? I just thought it was grown ass adult thinking.

Whether it's right or wrong you have to be aware of your thinking in the context of the sport you're watching and that sport's culture.

Diving and faking injury is dumb and embarrassing ... but if I get angry every time a player on my favourite soccer team dives, I'd just be permanently miserable following the sport and want every player sold every year. It is what it is.

Caribbean baseball culture is different than Canadian hockey culture and having fun and personal expression is part of it. And endlessly complaining about ingrained MLB culture that every team has/does is pretty bloody counterproductive.

Baltimore fans : Our silly HR celebration is so much fun!

Toronto fans who grew up on Don Cherry mocking Jaromir Jagr for goal celebrations : Our silly HR celebration is juvenile and stupid and it's making us lose games! Get rid of it!

 

[justashadowof]

Whether it's right or wrong you have to be aware of your thinking in the context of the sport you're watching and that sport's culture.

Diving and faking injury is dumb and embarrassing ... but if I get angry every time a player on my favourite soccer team dives, I'd just be permanently miserable following the sport and want every player sold every year. It is what it is.

Caribbean baseball culture is different than Canadian hockey culture and having fun and personal expression is part of it. And endlessly complaining about ingrained MLB culture that every team has/does is pretty bloody counterproductive.

Baltimore fans : Our silly HR celebration is so much fun!

Toronto fans who grew up on Don Cherry mocking Jaromir Jagr for goal celebrations : Our silly HR celebration is juvenile and stupid and it's making us lose games! Get rid of it!

There was a time that Caribbean baseball players were as stoic as American baseball players.

 

[mikeyz]

I enjoy the sight of the athletes I root for acting cool in triumph not like 8 year olds on a sugar high. I also admire acting out respect for your opposition rather than taunting them. Is that Don Cherry thinking? I just thought it was grown ass adult thinking.



I'm not watching anything that abomination of a human being says because it may change my mind out of the desire to never think like that mental midget.

He wasn’t wrong at all.

People may consider your opinion if you weren't insulting them in the opening sentence. Do better, stop being so insecure.

He compared Brandon Belt to Babe Ruth yesterday.

Don’t take him seriously. He’s in no position and has lost all credibility to be critical of ANYBODY’S takes on sports.

 

[Hellcat]

Obviously the fact that he's gone on to be the GM and President for the best team in baseball is part of it, too.

To be fair Atlanta sucked for awhile before AA and was able to stockpile a pretty decent farm system, he deserves credit too for his trades and FA signings but this is not all AA.

 

[the valiant effort]

I swear the consensus last year in game 2 was that Gausman was pulled too late, and then questionably replaced by Mayza, who was then one of the worst relievers in MLB with inherited runners (bases loaded)

 

[Hellcat]

Whether it's right or wrong you have to be aware of your thinking in the context of the sport you're watching and that sport's culture.

Diving and faking injury is dumb and embarrassing ... but if I get angry every time a player on my favourite soccer team dives, I'd just be permanently miserable following the sport and want every player sold every year. It is what it is.

Caribbean baseball culture is different than Canadian hockey culture and having fun and personal expression is part of it. And endlessly complaining about ingrained MLB culture that every team has/does is pretty bloody counterproductive.

Baltimore fans : Our silly HR celebration is so much fun!

Toronto fans who grew up on Don Cherry mocking Jaromir Jagr for goal celebrations : Our silly HR celebration is juvenile and stupid and it's making us lose games! Get rid of it!

We have a culture too and the Latin American, Canadian, American, Japanese, Korean, Australian players who act like clowns in the dugout or on the field are seen through our lens because they play in our country. When in Rome right? The 3 guy outfield circle jump that those goofs did after every win, was so freaking childish and stupid. The Carrot Top accessories that wait for you in the dugout after a HR is stupid, Trident? Dinner jacket? Samurai helmet? WTF does that have to do with baseball.

Don Cherry has nothing to do with this.

 

[GreytWun]

Lol at the people downplaying AA success. Why am I not surprised it’s the same posters I would have imagined.

 

[Eyedea]

Lol at the people downplaying AA success. Why am I not surprised it’s the same posters I would have imagined.

Don't downplay the hate AA had while he was here then. Plenty of people wanted him gone after 2013/14.

 

[GreytWun]

Don't downplay the hate AA had while he was here then. Plenty of people wanted him gone after 2013/14.

I am talking about in Atlanta.

 

[Kurtz]

Atlanta's 2021 World Series team consisted almost entirely of talented inherited by AA. Yes he's successfully raided the A's since then.

Didn't he rebuild their entire outfield at the deadline that year or am I thinking of a different year?

 

[MS]

He wasn’t wrong at all.


He compared Brandon Belt to Babe Ruth yesterday.

Don’t take him seriously. He’s in no position and has lost all credibility to be critical of ANYBODY’S takes on sports.

You : BRANDON BELT IS BAD AT BASEBALL BECAUSE HE STRIKES OUT LOTS!

Me : Actually, strikeouts aren't a great measure of whether a player is good or not. As an example, the best player in MLB history led the league in strikeouts 5 times.

You : OMG YOU'RE COMPARING BRANDON BELT TO BABE RUTH!

... and you're just continuing to double down on this. I actually can't even. How old are you?

There was a time that Caribbean baseball players were as stoic as American baseball players.

We have a culture too and the Latin American, Canadian, American, Japanese, Korean, Australian players who act like clowns in the dugout or on the field are seen through our lens because they play in our country. When in Rome right? The 3 guy outfield circle jump that those goofs did after every win, was so freaking childish and stupid. The Carrot Top accessories that wait for you in the dugout after a HR is stupid, Trident? Dinner jacket? Samurai helmet? WTF does that have to do with baseball.

Don Cherry has nothing to do with this.

I really don't have to say anything more than this. Thank you both for making my point for me.

 

[GreytWun]

Didn't he rebuild their entire outfield at the deadline that year or am I thinking of a different year?

Nope you are correct and those pieces were huge in the playoffs. But we will just ignore that. I mean Soler was only the WS MVP

 

[Eyedea]

That's just not remotely true.

Yes Atlanta had a lot of talent, but he's the guy that acquired MVP candidate Matt Olson, All-Star catcher Sean Murphy, closer Iglesias, Ozuna, Arcia, Rosario, etc. And he gave up relatively little for all of those guys and signed all of their key guys to great contracts.

Is the Murphy trade a win though? Contreras had a pretty similar year and doesn't hit arb until next year. A's got fleeced but Brewers made out like bandits.

AA's been great at extending guys early though. The only thing I wish the Jays actually tried doing more of rather than let these guys go through year by year arb.

 

[GreytWun]

Is the Murphy trade a win though? Contreras had a pretty similar year and doesn't hit arb until next year. AA's been great at extending guys early though. The only thing I wish the Jays actually tried doing more of rather than let these guys go through year by year arb.

AA had extended the core of his team for at least 5+ years. That team will be dangerous for awhile because he locked those guys on ridiculous good contracts.

 

[mikeyz]

You : BRANDON BELT IS BAD AT BASEBALL BECAUSE HE STRIKES OUT LOTS!

Me : Actually, strikeouts aren't a great measure of whether a player is good or not. As an example, the best player in MLB history led the league in strikeouts 5 times.

You : OMG YOU'RE COMPARING BRANDON BELT TO BABE RUTH!

... and you're just continuing to double down on this. I actually can't even. How old are you?





I really don't have to say anything more than this. Thank you both for making my point for me.

Again, you’re really good at backpedaling and adding in comments afterwards to cover your ass. Because that’s not what you originally said and you know it.

 

[Kurtz]

Is the Murphy trade a win though? Contreras had a pretty similar year and doesn't hit arb until next year. A's got fleeced but Brewers made out like bandits.

AA's been great at extending guys early though. The only thing I wish the Jays actually tried doing more of rather than let these guys go through year by year arb.

On the one hand I agree, but on the other just imagine the disaster that Vlad/Manoah megadeals would be right now had they been proffered.

 

[MS]

Again, you’re really good at backpedaling and adding in comments afterwards to cover your ass. Because that’s not what you originally said and you know it.

That's literally exactly how the conversation went.

You said that Belt was garbage, because he strikes out lots. You asked for an explanation of how he could lead the league in strikeouts and not be bad. I explained that his numbers were 36% better than league average, and gave Babe Ruth as an example to show that leading the league in strikeouts doesn't necessarily mean a player is bad.

Then you showcased the reading comprehension of a baby giraffe and started claiming that I was comparing Brandon Belt to Babe Ruth.

Belt is total f***ing garbage.

136 OPS+ would indicate otherwise.

It's almost like baseball is a sport where failing 7 times in 10 is still very good.

Then explain how he was projected to lead the league in strikeouts over a 162 Game season this year.

Babe Ruth led the league in strikeouts 5 times.

Belt takes a ton of walks and hits for a ton of power, and is 36% better than a league average hitter.