Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[Da Cool Rula]

So who would you like to see as the next manager or is Mattingly, provided the Yankees aren’t in the cards, the guy?
No more of these no name guys. Have to bring in some experiance.

Actually don’t blame you if you don’t even want to answer that. Most are emotionally drained and/or mentally exhausted After this long messed up season.

 

[ACC1224]

Another thing that bugged me (and maybe I heard this wrong) but the announcers were saying afterward that some of the team would fly back to Toronto while others would just head to their homes. IMO, packing and having travel plans in anticipation of a loss is a huge 'no, no'.
Hoping I heard that wrong.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I hope Shapiro speaks. I want to know what his thoughts are.

 

[Eyedea]

This photo speaks a million words:

A little vacuous to compare Vladdy's mistakes to Yunel's. Plus what about Bo's baserunning blunder and high leverage plate appearance in g1? If you're going to be critical of one, might as well be critical of both.

 

[phillipmike]

Long-time Toronto Blue Jays coach Luis Rivera retiring

Luis Rivera, a member of the Toronto Blue Jays coaching staff since the 2011 season, is retiring, leaving the club with an opening for a third base and infield coach.

www.sportsnet.ca

Not a bad start to the offseason.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Well, yea I remember. I wish we would have kept him instead of hiring Shapiro, but I am amazed at how AA is revered around here just because of that 2015 team.

Obviously the fact that he's gone on to be the GM and President for the best team in baseball is part of it, too.

 

[DuklaNation]

Warning: very superficial analysis but I'm just going to mock their analytics fiasco. Jose Berrios worst inning during the regular season was the 4th inning, its the highest ERA of the first 6 innings for him. But let's compare good beginnings to the playoff game. 17 starts during the regular season with 3 shutout innings to start. 12 times, the 4th inning was a shutout. TB 1 run, Arizona 1 run, Baltimore 2 runs, Boston 3 runs, Yankees 2 runs (not sure if earned or not). 4 of 5 are AL East teams, the best division in baseball, no coincidence.

Trying to get Twins to replace certain hitters with a lefty out of the bullpen is completely overthinking everything for a small sample size (1 game). Twins lineup stinks and has only 1 very dangerous hitter, Lewis. If that was your strategy, why not start Kikuchi for 1 inning, then replace him with Berrios? Its just mind numbing the crap they're trying to do here.

2 basic fundamental improvements: Baserunning, get a 5th hitter thats a threat. Fix those 2, you win more games I guarantee it.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Obviously the fact that he's gone on to be the GM and President for the best team in baseball is part of it, too.

Yes, no doubt.

The whole timing of hiring Shapiro was screwed up. They were going to hire him before the team made all these moves in 2015. You gotta admit, team was stale up to that point. By then, it was too late to reverse the decision and AA didn’t want to work with/for Shapiro.

 

[Beaumaris]

Lots has to be done, the team seemed dysfunctional all year. Being around teams all my life soemtimes you get a vibe from a team that they don't like each other. Varsho, Witt, Chappy and Kiermier seemed to have a beef with Vladdy. Maybe I'm reading more into this and maybe they are all buddies.

I’m pretty sure we all had a beef with the beefy Vlad.

Useless tosser.

 

[Eyedea]

Warning: very superficial analysis but I'm just going to mock their analytics fiasco. Jose Berrios worst inning during the regular season was the 4th inning, its the highest ERA of the first 6 innings for him. But let's compare good beginnings to the playoff game. 17 starts during the regular season with 3 shutout innings to start. 12 times, the 4th inning was a shutout. TB 1 run, Arizona 1 run, Baltimore 2 runs, Boston 3 runs, Yankees 2 runs (not sure if earned or not). 4 of 5 are AL East teams, the best division in baseball, no coincidence.

Trying to get Twins to replace certain hitters with a lefty out of the bullpen is completely overthinking everything for a small sample size (1 game). Twins lineup stinks and has only 1 very dangerous hitter, Lewis. If that was your strategy, why not start Kikuchi for 1 inning, then replace him with Berrios? Its just mind numbing the crap they're trying to do here.

2 basic fundamental improvements: Baserunning, get a 5th hitter thats a threat. Fix those 2, you win more games I guarantee it.

Bolded is absolutely not true.

 

[LaP]

2 basic fundamental improvements: Baserunning, get a 5th hitter thats a threat. Fix those 2, you win more games I guarantee it.

Can't agree more.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Trying to get Twins to replace certain hitters with a lefty out of the bullpen is completely overthinking everything for a small sample size (1 game). Twins lineup stinks and has only 1 very dangerous hitter, Lewis. If that was your strategy, why not start Kikuchi for 1 inning, then replace him with Berrios? Its just mind numbing the crap they're trying to do here.

Twins had a top 5 offense overall in the 2nd half, so their lineup definitely doesn't suck.

They were also top 5 vs LHP in the final two months of the season, which made the decision even more puzzling.

 

[Hannibal]

A little vacuous to compare Vladdy's mistakes to Yunel's. Plus what about Bo's baserunning blunder and high leverage plate appearance in g1? If you're going to be critical of one, might as well be critical of both.

Bo had every right to try and score on that play. Knowing our offence, he took the right gamble. It took a incredible play by a gold glover to get him out.

Vlad, on the other hand, is just another stupid fatso.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The series was basically a microcosm of the entire season; Solid pitching, great defense, poor execution at the plate, and unnecessary base running errors.

It's going to be an interesting off season.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

A little vacuous to compare Vladdy's mistakes to Yunel's. Plus what about Bo's baserunning blunder and high leverage plate appearance in g1? If you're going to be critical of one, might as well be critical of both.

I wasn't comparing Vladdy's mistakes to Yunel's (if you're insinuating the homophobic slur), as I was comparing their mental lapses that contradict their all-world talent.

Bo's baserunning blunder? The one he got picked off at home? If so, I didn't mind the aggressiveness on a broken play.

 

[DuklaNation]

Twins had a top 5 offense overall in the 2nd half, so their lineup definitely doesn't suck.

They were also top 5 vs LHP in the final two months of the season, which made the decision even more puzzling.

That's nice. Put them in the AL EAST then. They wouldn't even sniff the playoffs.

 

[MK78]

So who would you like to see as the next manager or is Mattingly, provided the Yankees aren’t in the cards, the guy?
No more of these no name guys. Have to bring in some experiance.

Well, I was sure as hell that Boone would be fired in New York by now, but it seems not? I'm sure Mattingly was counting on it.

A part of me would like Mattingly to give it a shot with the Jays, but part of me says he sat on the bench thruout this year and this playoffs and how come he didnt try to influence some of these decisions. Or maybe he has, and thats how it turned out.

I would like a more old school manager. dare to say someone like Buck Showalter, but someone else lol.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

I still got Jays in 3.
Never give up hope!

 

[MK78]

That's nice. Put them in the AL EAST then. They wouldn't even sniff the playoffs.

Absolutely. Sure the schedule was a little more balanced, but still they played the most in their crappy division.

AL East has had 4 teams above .500 for the past 3 seasons. No other division even came close.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Luis Rivera is retiring.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Didn't say that, but coming in here like the world is ending gets tiring to read. They couldn't get hits, I get it, it sucks, but going through the late 90's and all the way to 2015 with no playoff baseball sucked even more than the last 2 years. There are issues to fix, but also players didn't play like we expected them to, and they have to figure that out. The fat shaming is also appalling. I guess Babe Ruth, Papi, Cecil and Prince Fielder were the model of athleticness.

Expecting professional athletes to somewhat at least look like they can see/touch their toes (or other parts for that matter) shouldn’t be an expectation that is met with cries of “fat shaming”.
I say this a fat guy with very liberal/progressive beliefs. No one’s fat shaming, we just expect better and can see the shortcomings.
I’m 40, and have been invested in the jays since 1989, sorry if I haven’t been here griping daily. For me this is mainly a hockey forum and frankly the toxicity of a long leafs season often means wanting a break from what this place provides day to day.

I hope Shapiro speaks. I want to know what his thoughts are.

patio bars in the 500 level coming spring 2026

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

That's nice. Put them in the AL EAST then. They wouldn't even sniff the playoffs.

They'd probably be where the Jays are at. They held their own vs teams >.500 at 37-36 while the Jays went 42-50. Both sucked vs AL East teams

 

[Eyedea]

I wasn't comparing Vladdy's mistakes to Yunel's (if you're insinuating the homophobic slur), as I was comparing their mental lapses that contradict their all-world talent.

Bo's baserunning blunder? The one he got picked off at home? If so, I didn't mind the aggressiveness on a broken play.

Taking the homophobic slur out of the situation, I still wouldn't compare their mental lapses as being similar. Yunel was by far the worst player when it came to arguing balls and strikes, and his petulant attitude was always on full display during a game. He didn't care, and he never looked like someone that enjoyed playing or being in the dugout with his teammates. I don't see that in Vladdy. Honestly I see a kid that loves the game and cares a lot, but sometimes he tries to do too much and it negatively impacts the team.

And yes, Bo made a blunder. These are the distinctions often made between Vladdy and Bo. One is lazy, the other is aggressive. Vladdy tries to get a big lead at 2nd to score on any groundball through the infield, LAZY. Bo tries to outrun a ball that was being picked up by Correa before he even made it halfway from 3B to home, AGGRESSIVE. They're both baserunning blunders.

 

[DuklaNation]

They'd probably be where the Jays are at. They held their own vs teams >.500 at 37-36 while the Jays went 42-50. Both sucked vs AL East teams

Their record vs AL East sucked. Boost the number of games and remove their own division and they'd be maybe .500 or less probably around Boston level.

Don't cherry pick data. That's Jays analytics stuff.

 

[stats1]

So who would you like to see as the next manager or is Mattingly, provided the Yankees aren’t in the cards, the guy?
No more of these no name guys. Have to bring in some experiance.

Actually don’t blame you if you don’t even want to answer that. Most are emotionally drained and/or mentally exhausted After this long messed up season.

First off they have to fire Atkins because it’s quite obvious Schneider was managing off the analytical data given to him from the higher ups. If you’re going to hire a new manager you have to allow him to actually manage. It’s unreal that this team were making pitching decisions before the game was even being played… it’s bonkers

It’s crazy that John went to Berrios and told him look dude we might pull you in the 4th… this is the plan… who runs a team like this!!! John even said Berrios was well aware this might happen. This whole thing is crazy to me. Over analysis = paralysis

It’s also very clear that last 2 choices for managers were just puppets of Atkins and the analytics. That has to stop right now. Next manager can’t be a rookie, you need someone with some experience