Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[Moose Head]

GM and Coach both needs to go. They just don't have it, money ball bs needs to stop in every sport
If data decides the game and decisions, why even have a coach. Still not sure why we switched pitcher but hey, I am no coach
We have seen this with the Leafs. Over coaching

Vladdy hasn't materlized into the player we thought he would be.

The data is a very useful tool to help making decisions , but you have to use human logic too, when sometimes the data just doesn’t make sense. Sort of like the pitching change last night, Belt being the jays best hitter and the real wild one, in his short time Semin was a Hab, analytics showed he was the Habs best forward. He was terrible and was released after about 20 games.

 

[ULF_55]

The Jays appear to be made up of a set of core players that can't show up in big games.

They didn't secure the wild card playoff spot themselves, they had to have help from the Rangers.

They also mirrored our Leafs by losing the wold card playoff series to a team with a worse regular season record.

Losers lose when it's the most important time to compete and win.

Just like our Leafs, this Jays team needs to make major changes to acquire talent that WANTS to win every game, and shows it during the games !!!

As you read this thread you do see Mitchy=Vlady all over it.

 

[Hellcat]

To be fair, thats a tradition that has lasted in baseball for years, but still even if thats normal, Jays went over the top IMO.

It has but when a team has played a poorly as they did, it's just a bad look. To me it looks like the Jays accomplished their goal, to make the playoffs. It feels like the goal was not to win in the playoffs, its was to just make it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but if I was on that team I would honestly be embarrassed how over the top the celebration was. If you show that video of the neon lights, booze flowing and whooping it up to a casual fan, and you ask them explain to me what you think happened, i bet most people would tell you , it looks like they won a championship.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That seems to be a contradiction.
A tough decision will need to be made, personally I don't think you can win with him leading the team.

It could occur but you have to micro manage immature babies .. he may not like being told what to do all da time .. if he falls out of line then you ship him to minors asap and trade .. there all loads of people in this world with much more talent in their baby fingers than rest of us have but they are so immature it never comes out .. i fear Vlad is one of those guys

 

[Al14]

As you read this thread you do see Mitchy=Vlady all over it..

Now that you have pointed it out, yes !!!

 

[SpezDispenser]

With a couple of bats who are threats for hr, this team can rebound. But who?

It's sad that the only player that pitchers are legit scares of now is Bo, so who can we get to scare pitchers and maybe get vlad some better pitches to hit?

And should shatkins be the ones doing this?

 

[dredeye]

So now that the season is over there seems to be a lot of reports of managers not actually making much of any decisions even in game. So the hate I have for Schneider may need to be focus on Shapiro. Whoever was responsible for those decisions in the post season is who should be fired

 

[ACC1224]

As you read this thread you do see Mitchy=Vlady all over it.

That would take some special vision to see.

 

[Hellcat]

I want Vladdy gone. Guys a loser. He’s an overrated bum. He gives zero f***s. He gives zero effort. He sucks. He’s out of shape. He has minimal power. He can’t hit for average. He sucks defensively. He hasn’t won a meaningful game in his tenure. Guys a straight up loser.

The guy has elite superstar potential he also has elite immaturity and I dont think he has his head in the game, I dont think he is a student of the game, just a gifted natural athlete.

He needs to go to Aaron's Shaman hut in the ground for a week of self reflection. This is not the first time this year he'd done something stupid on the base paths, we have to be in the double digits stupid now.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

So now that the season is over there seems to be a lot of reports of managers not actually making much of any decisions even in game. So the hate I have for Schneider may need to be focus on Shapiro. Whoever was responsible for those decisions in the post season is who should be fired

Yeah. I just read this quote, and got the sense that this went well above and beyond Schneider alone:

“It’s tough, it’s tough,” a dejected Schneider said after the loss. “(José) had arguably the best stuff he’s had all year, and coming into his former team, a place that he’s familiar with, it was tough to watch it unfold.

“But at the same time, I think that when you’re so diligent with your work and you trust the people that you’re working with … both on the field and off, you just try to make the best decision that you can for the guys that are on the field to win.”


47 pitches. 47 freakin' pitches!!! From your starter. Who was dealing and battling in a 0-0 game. Absolutely inexcusable.

 

[Hellcat]

So now that the season is over there seems to be a lot of reports of managers not actually making much of any decisions even in game. So the hate I have for Schneider may need to be focus on Shapiro. Whoever was responsible for those decisions in the post season is who should be fired

Lots has to be done, the team seemed dysfunctional all year. Being around teams all my life soemtimes you get a vibe from a team that they don't like each other. Varsho, Witt, Chappy and Kiermier seemed to have a beef with Vladdy. Maybe I'm reading more into this and maybe they are all buddies.

 

[hoglund]

That seems to be a contradiction.
A tough decision will need to be made, personally I don't think you can win with him leading the team.

He's not the leader, I'd say it's Bichette. Vladdy had an off year, still better than the average mlb player, but definitely below his norm. He needs to improve his base running too. Getting rid of him on an off year would get very little in return and could backfire like I gave examples of the TigerCats.

 

[LaP]

That seems to be a contradiction.
A tough decision will need to be made, personally I don't think you can win with him leading the team.

What makes you think other GMs don't think the same as you? And if they do then why would they offer the moon for who would soon become an average DH? Only way you get a good return is if a GM thinks he can still develop into the player people thought he would be. Honestly it should not be the priority to trade Vlad unless he wants to be paid like a top player. There's more urging problem to solve imo. Jays must improve the offense and if you trade your guy with the most HR and RBI it's kind of counter productive unless you can get a guy better which would be a solid 35+ HR and 100+ RBI guy, one who can do it pretty much all heathy season and i don't see how you get that guy for Vlad. Priority should be to move Varsho to center field and find a better left fielder one who can bat behind Vlad and Bo and do a better job than the guys did this year. The batting behind Vlad and Bo was god damn awful all year long specially in playoffs. As bad as Vlad has been this year the batting behind him was even worse.

The 2nd priority should be to improve base running. Possibly moving away from Kirk and maybe replace Belt by a guy with either more power or faster on base (not talking about stealing base here but just the ability to advance an extra base when possible and score from a single from 2nd base). I still strongly believe Belt is vastly overrated around here. He used to be good but he's okaish at best today. Slow on base. Very susceptible to SO against the best pitchers (the ones you face every day in playoffs). There's no 4th and 5th pitchers in playoffs and you face guys like Duran almost all series. If you can't beat guys like Gray and Duran you're already out of the playoffs before it even begin. Jays have 0 hitter behind BO and Vlad who can beat the best pitchers you'll face every days in playoffs. This is a major issue imo.

Jays also have to be more aggressive on base. This is on the coaching staff though not the players. Jays got on base 20 times in two games and did not attempt to steal a single base. As someone who grew up watching Felipe Alou coached teams i find this extremely disgusting. Jays finished 22nd for stolen base and 16th for home runs. Anyone who think this can work is living in la la land. You either needs to hit with power and be fast on base. If you're slow and have no power forget about it. This is on the GM and coaching staffs not the players. Being slow on base is on the GM but not being aggressive is on the coach. I don't remember which game but there was a game in September where the Jays had a runner at 1st who was not slow with Springer at bat and 2 outs. This is a situation where you should attempt to steal the base 100% of the time all day every night and the call should come from the coach not the guy on base. This is unacceptable imo and it happened often this year.

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah I get that it was bad but at least it had thought behind it. Not paying attention at that point in the game is inexcusable. To me it highlights his entire time here, no game face.

I have no doubt they will fire the manager, they weren’t going to do it last night.

They didn't bring in Mattingly to carry Schneiders water ... whoever does not see that move from day one is in a coma.

 

[Kurtz]

As you read this thread you do see Mitchy=Vlady all over it.

That's a bit silly imo. Mitch is a top 10 player in hockey and gets better every year. Vlad has been getting worse and this year wasn't even a top 10 player at his position.

 

[hoglund]

On a side note thank you for Calvillo. One of the best in the history of the league XD

I'm sure some Winnipeg fan will thank me for Collaros and the Yankees or Red Sox fans will be thanking the Bluejays for Vladdy if they trade him for little.

 

[ULF_55]

That would take some special vision to see.

Perhaps, but I don't love either player.

 

[ACC1224]

He's not the leader, I'd say it's Bichette. Vladdy had an off year, still better than the average mlb player, but definitely below his norm. He needs to improve his base running too. Getting rid of him on an off year would get very little in return and could backfire like I gave examples of the TigerCats.

I'm sure there are lots of examples of deals made that didn't backfire.
I don't follow closely but when I do watch it always seems like Vladdy is the ring leader for all fun stuff going on, Bichette seems kind of quiet.

Isn't this his second down year from his peak?

 

[Dr Pepper]

That's a bit silly imo. Mitch is a top 10 player in hockey and gets better every year. Vlad has been getting worse and this year wasn't even a top 10 player at his position.

They're both franchise cornerstones though.

Mitchy is to the Leafs what Vladdy is to the Jays - even if their impact relative to the rest of the league seems to be growing at very different rates these past few seasons.

 

[ACC1224]

What makes you think other GMs don't think the same as you? And if they do then why would they offer the moon for who would soon become an average DH? Only way you get a good return is if a GM thinks he can still develop into the player people thought he would be. Honestly it should not be the priority to trade Vlad unless he wants to be paid like a top player. There's more urging problem to solve imo. Jays must improve the offense and if you trade your guy with the most HR and RBI it's kind of counter productive unless you can get a guy better which would be a solid 35+ HR and 100+ RBI guy, one who can do it pretty much all heathy season and i don't see how you get that guy for Vlad. Priority should be to move Varsho to center field and find a better left fielder one who can bat behind Vlad and Bo and do a better job than the guys did this year. The batting behind Vlad and Bo was god damn awful all year long specially in playoffs. As bad as Vlad has been this year the batting behind him was even worse.

The 2nd priority should be to improve base running. Possibly moving away from Kirk and maybe replace Belt by a guy with either more power or faster on base (not talking about stealing base here but just the ability to advance an extra base when possible and score from a single from 2nd base). I still strongly believe Belt is vastly overrated around here. He used to be good but he's okaish at best today. Slow on base. Very susceptible to SO against the best pitchers (the ones you face every day in playoffs). There's no 4th and 5th pitchers in playoffs and you face guys like Duran almost all series. If you can't beat guys like Gray and Duran you're already out of the playoffs before it even begin. Jays have 0 hitter behind BO and Vlad who can beat the best pitchers you'll face every days in playoffs. This is a major issue imo.

Jays also have to be more aggressive on base. This is on the coaching staff though not the players. Jays got on base 20 times in two games and did not attempt to steal a single base. As someone who grew up watching Felipe Alou coached teams i find this extremely disgusting. Jays finished 22nd for stolen base and 16th for home runs. Anyone who think this can work is living in la la land. You either needs to hit with power and be fast on base. If you're slow and have no power forget about it. This is on the GM and coaching staffs not the players. Being slow on base is on the GM but not being aggressive is on the coach. I don't remember which game but there was a game in September where the Jays had a runner at 1st who was not slow with Springer at bat and 2 outs. This is a situation where you should attempt to steal the base 100% of the time all day every night and the call should come from the coach not the guy on base. This is unacceptable imo and it happened often this year.

My post was in response to someone who believes he will be an MVP if traded.
I have no idea of the value of players, I've said that in other posts. I just believe you can't win with him leading the way.

 

[ULF_55]

That's a bit silly imo. Mitch is a top 10 player in hockey and gets better every year. Vlad has been getting worse and this year wasn't even a top 10 player at his position.

Both players taking the blame though.

One being careless with the puck over the glass/being caught unaware at 2nd. based.

If only Vlad/marner could elevate in the tough games.

 

[ACC1224]

That's a bit silly imo. Mitch is a top 10 player in hockey and gets better every year. Vlad has been getting worse and this year wasn't even a top 10 player at his position.

Yeah was a pretty dumb comparison.

 

[hoglund]

I'm sure there are lots of examples of deals made that didn't backfire.
I don't follow closely but when I do watch it always seems like Vladdy is the ring leader for all fun stuff goinon, Bichette seems kind of quiet.

Isn't this his second down year from his peak?

Yes, 2021 was his best year, but he's only 24 and probably hasn't hit his prime. He has regressed the last 2 years, but his stats are still above most mlb players. He needs to learn proper base running.

 

[MK78]

Vladdy needs to work on his fitness and his footwork. he often looks so unbalanced at the plate, same thing on the bases whether running or defending. i've seen him this year just putting his foot on the middle of the bag instead of touching the corner when fielding a tough throw from 3rd or SS, and the out not being made because he didn't stretch.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes, 2021 was his best year, but he's only 24 and probably hasn't hit his prime. He has regressed the last 2 years, but his stats are still above most mlb players. He needs to learn proper base running.

He needs to learn a lot more than that, IMO.