Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

Who you got?


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Jimmy Firecracker

Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Mar 30, 2010
38,020
39,782
Mississauga
This team just needed to win 3 out of their last 6 games at home to secure a playoff spot. Couldnt even do that. They celebrated because another team lost No one is surprised by the way this all unfolded. But it poured gas on all the incompetence we have seen all summer.

I'm hoping the ritual of celebrating the clinching of a wildcard spot with champagne dies, not just for the Jays but all of the teams. It's one thing if you win the division at the end of 162 games, but a WC spot where you just squeaked in and could potentially be going home 3-4 days later is no reason to be popping bottles.
 

saska sault

Registered User
Jun 5, 2010
4,614
3,936
Sault Ste. Marie
It’s definitely not easy, but if we synthesize 150 years of data on overweight, 25 year-old sons of Hall of Famers with a lack of seriousness on the field we should be able to come up with something.

Other than Vlad, who do you think can seriously rebound?

They lack real talent and that’s on the guy that build this team

Jansen if healthy is a top catcher. He has had injury problems but I keep him and give him a nice raise. His numbers if he can get 500 ab's would be great production, think he's much more aware and has the baseball IQ,
Kirk is a wild card. He lost all his power and is a liability besides his contact rate.
Bo is a no brainer, give him the contract Vlad wanted asap and give Vlad some motivation for the summer. Don't let him dwell on it, make him and Manoah see that you can earn deals with some production over multiple years.
Varsho should be better next year and has 3 or 4 years control. With basically an increase in ability to hit a high fastball. Defense and base running is great, has power.. spend all summer on that pitch and hole is your swing.
Springer.. eh.... he isn't going to be elite but 20hr-20sb-70 ribi's and a couple clutch hits and less solo lead off homers and it's within reach.
Pitching shouldn't fine and with room for improvement with Ryu's money freed up.
I'd package our depth guys in a heart beat for a hefty contract on an established guy, teams get guys like Arenado all the time for less then most usually imagine. Not saying him specifically but someone in that realm.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,443
6,666
Jansen if healthy is a top catcher. He has had injury problems but I keep him and give him a nice raise. His numbers if he can get 500 ab's would be great production, think he's much more aware and has the baseball IQ,
Kirk is a wild card. He lost all his power and is a liability besides his contact rate.
Bo is a no brainer, give him the contract Vlad wanted asap and give Vlad some motivation for the summer. Don't let him dwell on it, make him and Manoah see that you can earn deals with some production over multiple years.
Varsho should be better next year and has 3 or 4 years control. With basically an increase in ability to hit a high fastball. Defense and base running is great, has power.. spend all summer on that pitch and hole is your swing.
Springer.. eh.... he isn't going to be elite but 20hr-20sb-70 ribi's and a couple clutch hits and less solo lead off homers and it's within reach.
Pitching shouldn't fine and with room for improvement with Ryu's money freed up.
I'd package our depth guys in a heart beat for a hefty contract on an established guy, teams get guys like Arenado all the time for less than most usually imagine. Not saying him specifically but someone in that realm.
I am talking about the bat. Bo and Vlad can be better but that’s about it. Jansen has never been a consistent producer. You can’t just extrapolate numbers and assume it would happen. If he can do it , it’s a bonus . It’s not something you can go into next year expecting and have success
 
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Kurtz

Registered User
Jul 17, 2005
10,462
7,621
Jansen if healthy is a top catcher. He has had injury problems but I keep him and give him a nice raise. His numbers if he can get 500 ab's would be great production, think he's much more aware and has the baseball IQ,
Kirk is a wild card. He lost all his power and is a liability besides his contact rate.
Bo is a no brainer, give him the contract Vlad wanted asap and give Vlad some motivation for the summer. Don't let him dwell on it, make him and Manoah see that you can earn deals with some production over multiple years.
Varsho should be better next year and has 3 or 4 years control. With basically an increase in ability to hit a high fastball. Defense and base running is great, has power.. spend all summer on that pitch and hole is your swing.
Springer.. eh.... he isn't going to be elite but 20hr-20sb-70 ribi's and a couple clutch hits and less solo lead off homers and it's within reach.
Pitching shouldn't fine and with room for improvement with Ryu's money freed up.
I'd package our depth guys in a heart beat for a hefty contract on an established guy, teams get guys like Arenado all the time for less then most usually imagine. Not saying him specifically but someone in that realm.

I like the Arenado idea. He makes same money as Ryu and St Louis would likely be interested in one of our 3B prospects if they are indeed rebuilding.
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
27,251
34,204
I'm hoping the ritual of celebrating the clinching of a wildcard spot with champagne dies, not just for the Jays but all of the teams. It's one thing if you win the division at the end of 162 games, but a WC spot where you just squeaked in and could potentially be going home 3-4 days later is no reason to be popping bottles.
To be fair, thats a tradition that has lasted in baseball for years, but still even if thats normal, Jays went over the top IMO.
 

Jimmy Firecracker

Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Mar 30, 2010
38,020
39,782
Mississauga
To be fair, thats a tradition that has lasted in baseball for years, but still even if thats normal, Jays went over the top IMO.

Yeah but at least back in the day it's more understandable because it was more of a rarity to make it. Just one of those traditions that doesn't make all that much sense anymore but is still done.
 
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rdogg

I cry your pardon
Aug 4, 2010
3,999
2,063
PEI
Is AA not one of the best current GM in the MLB?

No man. Ask any blue jays fan. He lucked into his position with the Braves and got to where he is solely on inheriting a good team. Forget his amazing trades and signings. I mean, it was AA who talked to Vladdy's mom in French that helped convince him to sign with Toronto. But none of that matters, he's a terrible GM. Atkins on the other hand really knows his stuff. He'll turn it around in no time
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
81,757
71,932
What the f*** sort of lunacy is this?

There are plenty of things that should be examined and criticized. There are clearly mistakes that were made.

But posting reactionary drivel where EVERYTHING IS BAD and that they should have scratched Matt Chapman for a rookie in a 2-35 slump is just wasting everyone’s time.

Today f***ing sucked. Somebody has to be held accountable for the bizarre pitching decision that was made. But this is also not the Mets or the Padres, either.
I didn’t say everything is bad. I said you can’t assume that everything is good with this group because they haven’t done anything to deserve that benefit of the doubt. Thus every move they make needs to be examined with a healthy dose of skepticism.
 

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Jul 15, 2010
10,362
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I'm hoping the ritual of celebrating the clinching of a wildcard spot with champagne dies, not just for the Jays but all of the teams. It's one thing if you win the division at the end of 162 games, but a WC spot where you just squeaked in and could potentially be going home 3-4 days later is no reason to be popping bottles.
It looks ridiculous.
 

Ciao

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To be fair, thats a tradition that has lasted in baseball for years, but still even if thats normal, Jays went over the top IMO.
Winning the pennant? YES!

Winning a division? Well, okay.

Backing into the last wild card spot with a loss while the fourth--place finisher lost just one more? They needed the batting cage, not champagne.
 

Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
3,152
2,882
Agree though this team ain’t close to that one in terms of talent. A few too many holes. They are better then they are playing though.

I think they are what they are, the pitching may have overachieved a bit and the hitting under achieved, the manager clearly relies too much on computer printouts. There was a guy in the dugout that never saw playing time, even when the Twink's had fireballers and that guy feasts on the fastball, exchanging Schneider for Chapman, would have put a threat at the plate every Schneider AB, Chapman had multiple AB with runners on and did not cash them in. Schneider is not a bad infielder, while Chappy is one of the best defensive 3B in the league, offensively since the 2nd month he's been horrid, the addition of Schneider at the plate far outweighs the defensive loss from Chappy sitting on the bench..

Belt 0-8, Varsho 0-5, Biggio 1-8, Guerrero 1-7, Chapman 1-7, Springer 2-9 = .135 BA is the story in a nutshell.

When you have a choke job of a team, like the Jays, make the playoffs, those of us who've seen these types of teams before know, it was not an accomplishment to make the playoffs. They just sucked one game less than Seattle. This team making the playoffs is like running a race with 2 other people, and winning a bronze.... Those of us who understand the game, knew what the Jays were going to do. I said as much on Saturday, I was told they had a chance, I was told I was a hater, I was told that I was wrong when I said TB was the easier path.
 

Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
3,152
2,882
Only a moron warms guys up every inning while his #2 is pitching decently.

(Not to mention objectively worse relievers)

That was a case of the Advance stat nerds dictating the game, The Jays rely heavily on computer projections to manage the game. Which is odd because no matter how shitty Vlad, Varsho and Chapman were at the plate, they continued to trot them out as regulars. In the lexicon of my 40+ years playing and coaching, I've never seen a coach remove a pitcher so early, who was basically on cruise control for another pitcher who was a starter. The one thing about baseball is if you think you've seen everything, your bound to be proven wrong.

We dont know if Berrios would have fallen apart after that walk or strike out the side but I think Berrios did enough in that game to be allowed another batter.
 

Brown Dog

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
5,832
5,127
I'm hoping the ritual of celebrating the clinching of a wildcard spot with champagne dies, not just for the Jays but all of the teams. It's one thing if you win the division at the end of 162 games, but a WC spot where you just squeaked in and could potentially be going home 3-4 days later is no reason to be popping bottles.

100%. The champagne celebration made sense when only 4 teams qualified for the postseason. Winning a division was a legit accomplishment that only the best teams pulled off and had the gravity of a playoff series win.
 

Brown Dog

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
5,832
5,127
That was a case of the Advance stat nerds dictating the game, The Jays rely heavily on computer projections to manage the game. Which is odd because no matter how shitty Vlad, Varsho and Chapman were at the plate, they continued to trot them out as regulars. In the lexicon of my 40+ years playing and coaching, I've never seen a coach remove a pitcher so early, who was basically on cruise control for another pitcher who was a starter. The one thing about baseball is if you think you've seen everything, your bound to be proven wrong.

We dont know if Berrios would have fallen apart after that walk or strike out the side but I think Berrios did enough in that game to be allowed another batter.

Varsho is the ultimate JAG. Astonishing that we gave up one of the top prospects in baseball--at a premium position and MLB-ready no less!--for this lump. And threw in a serviceable bat in Gurriel to boot!
 

fancy lad

Registered User
Nov 22, 2021
727
1,032
What was worse? Vladdy getting picked off or changing pitchers?

For me it’s Vladdy easily, that was brutal.
Pitching change easily.

The pitching change was calculated and planned by a guy whose job it is to make these decisions. It was intentional. Even a casual baseball fan knew better than to take out a pitcher who was dealing and it was still in a relatively early part of the game.

That decision alone IS enough to lose a job over.

In soccer world cup, it's customary if a big team underachieves and gets knocked out early, the manager tends to resign the next day.

sometimes other sports could learn from each other.
 

shaner8989

Registered User
Aug 6, 2005
23,703
5,888
I want Vladdy gone. Guys a loser. He’s an overrated bum. He gives zero f***s. He gives zero effort. He sucks. He’s out of shape. He has minimal power. He can’t hit for average. He sucks defensively. He hasn’t won a meaningful game in his tenure. Guys a straight up loser.
 

justashadowof

Registered User
Aug 15, 2020
4,025
4,230
No man. Ask any blue jays fan. He lucked into his position with the Braves and got to where he is solely on inheriting a good team. Forget his amazing trades and signings. I mean, it was AA who talked to Vladdy's mom in French that helped convince him to sign with Toronto. But none of that matters, he's a terrible GM. Atkins on the other hand really knows his stuff. He'll turn it around in no time
AA is not a terrible GM, he's a good one, but he's got many equal peers throughout baseball. Mock all you want, that Atlanta team is entirely built on elite talent AA inherited. It's a matter of record.
 

CabanaBoy5

Registered User
Feb 17, 2013
3,827
4,478
Woodbridge
This pathetic management has now thrust their analytics driven philosophy to a loss two post seasons in a row. Gausman being taken out last season when he’s still pitching well, and Berrios out this season after 47 pitches and pitching the best of this season. OUT with Atkins and Schneider at the very least.
 
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