Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[canucksfan]

No I don't have proof, but I remember that being quite widely discussed at the time.

Shapiro wanted a guy he can influence easily. Atkins was the guy. and he's still here.

AA's foot was out the door once they were bringing in a new president regardless of who it was. He was loyal to Beeston.

His work in Toronto wasn't excellent as he stumbled a lot, especially in his early years. After the 2014 season there was talk about letting him go.

He is a smart guy though so he went to LA and learned from Friedman, the best in the business. Then, he went to a team that was on the upswing and had a ton of young talent.

 

[Nineteen67]

But but but the offense is good and and and belt is good and and and Varsho was the right trade and and and we don’t need Moreno and and chapman was so good for 2 months

Oh those were good times

f*** this team

I’ll say it again, that was Rogers marketing department selling tickets.

 

[Hannibal]

I liked AA, but why are we still talking about a GM that left 8 years ago?

Because he was so much a better option than that terrible duo we have.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I liked AA, but why are we still talking about a GM that left 8 years ago?

Because the team he went on to build is a WS Champion juggernaut while his replacements and their "philosophy" haven't won a playoff game in 8 years?

 

[canucksfan]

Because he was so much a better option than that terrible duo we have.

He wasn't even an option though. Once Beeston was gone, AA was leaving.

Furthermore, I doubt he turns into what he is today if he stayed in Toronto. He learned a lot from Friedman.

 

[dredeye]

Him saying it’s these kind of decisions that’s taking away from managers is very telling. I can’t stand Schneider as a manager but it may have just been exposed that he like Montoyo were just managers in name only. If Shapiro or Atkins had any involvement in those in game decisions I would like both of them fired this off season. With the Reno’s underway one of the two is safe at least. Going back to back on rookie managers makes a lot more sense if you want to control in game decisions. I can’t wrap my head around the decisions that took place in this series.

 

[Maestro84]

Here's my comments on how I feel about each player.

Springer - he's the glue to this team in many ways, hopefully his offensive production rebounds next year (a shame because this was the healthiest season he's ever had)

Bo - you're a god and the face of this franchise

Vlad - he's obviously a good player but he's a much more flawed player than we would've thought in 2021. Has a lot to prove in next couple years if he wants that career-long contract

Belt - if we can find someone like him next year who can play full-time that would be great. Shame he was platooned so much as he was very productive when he was actually in the lineup (terrible playoff series tho)

Kirk - he's still young but man there's no doubt in my mind that we gave away the wrong catcher. Kirk should've been traded last year and NOT Moreno. Kirk's offensive dropoff was a huge reason for this team's offensive blackhole but it also makes that Varsho-Moreno trade look even worse than it already is

Chapman - got unlucky this series but I'm glad we won't be seeing all his strikeouts next year, someone will be overpaying him in the offseason

Varsho - I really hope he can bounce back offensively because otherwise we're stuck with this dude for god knows how long...his lack of production played a big role in this offense being so bad as he had major expectations. As of now, I cant believe we traded our #1 prospect (who was the number one prospect in all of baseball last yr) for a glorified Bradley Zimmer

KK - really hope we can bring this guy back for a couple more years. Every team needs a guy like him

Whitt/Espinal - wouldn't mind Espinal as a bench player but we need an upgrade from an aging Merrifield who is an FA

Biggio - I'm not a fan of him but I understand why they still keep him.

Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt/Kikuchi - you guys carried this team all year please be this good next year too

Manoah - idk what's your deal man but if you don't want to pitch here someone else will...

Hicks/Green - plz bring these two guys back

Richards - you need to be cut

Rest of bullpen - please be good again too they were unhittable for the latter part of the year. Unlike other Jays fans, I'm fine with Romano in the back-end he isn't smooth sailing but he gets it done most of the time

Ryu - thanks for everything but it's time to move on I hope he lands another nice contract

 

[EpochLink]

The front office cannot sell this shit again next year, making the playoffs only to be sent home early. They need to improve the hitting, it’s been dog ass all year.

 

[Maestro84]

I think Schneider needs to go as well. That's two years in a row where we stupidly took out his starter who was dealing and that ultimately cost them the season...that can't be acceptable. The FO is also on the plank right now this off-season and next year's product will determine whether there will be new management in the near future

 

[Evilhomer]

T

Their attendance increased this year. No concern from that area.

This city has demonstrated in the past that it will only show up for a winner when it comes to the Jays. It's possible that things are different now, but I'm not so sure.

The proof was the decision to take Berrios out of the game today.

Guaranteed that Shapiro and Atkins had a hand in that.

I think that makes the Jays like every other team at this point. Analytics dominate baseball. Berrios was coming out at a specified point no matter what was happening in the game, because that's what the historical numbers dictated. Context is removed entirely. Analytics have in some respects become exactly what it was intended to overcome - blind allegiance to a position.

 

[canucksfan]

T

This city has demonstrated in the past that it will only show up for a winner when it comes to the Jays. It's possible that things are different now, but I'm not so sure.

The new renos help with attendance and while the team is flawed, they still made the playoffs. I could see a slight decline but nothing horrendous.

 

[Puckstuff]

Shocker. The team that couldn't get it done against Texas, couldn't get 8 wins to assure a clinch, couldn't close that one game against Tampa, and couldn't get one more win-Seattle had to clinch for them-just couldn't get it done when it mattered. Once again, the only thing this offense excelled at is hitting into double plays. And boneheaded base running mistakes.

My condolences to the pitching staff. They did their job holding the Twins to just 5 runs the whole series. You deserved better.

Looking ahead to possible offseason moves:

ROTATION: For the first time ever that I can remember, the Jays don't have to do anything here. Manoah will likely rebound and they have Tiedmann and Franchis for depth, plus others.

BULLPEN: Same thing. They actually have more interesting pitchers than they have available slots. Aside from locking down Hicks, they're pretty much covered.

EVERYTHING ELSE: Offense. Don't be surprised if they make a solid run at Bellinger, and with 60 mil coming off the books, they can afford him (doubt he'll come to Toronto though). Also don't be surprised if they bring back players like Teoscar or even Belt given how he ended off the season. The only real question mark is what they're going to do at 3rd. They could resign Chapman, but he's a Boras client and will be looking for $20m over 5 ($15 if it were anyone else). They will likely be looking to trade their excess of mid 20s+ infield prospects. Outside of Martinez, I don't see any of them being untouchable.

This team needs an elite bat or two at either 3B, outfield or DH. Hope we can find at least 1-2 good hitters and one of them needs to be top 30. I’d swing a deal for Arenado and Goldschmidt. Common Cardinals, rebuild!

 

[canucksfan]

Him saying it’s these kind of decisions that’s taking away from managers is very telling. I can’t stand Schneider as a manager but it may have just been exposed that he like Montoyo were just managers in name only. If Shapiro or Atkins had any involvement in those in game decisions I would like both of them fired this off season. With the Reno’s underway one of the two is safe at least. Going back to back on rookie managers makes a lot more sense if you want to control in game decisions. I can’t wrap my head around the decisions that took place in this series.

It's an easy transition IMO. Click has been with the organization for just under a year. He replaces Atkins. Atkins has been given his shot and no playoff success at all.

 

[Nineteen67]

Putting players in unfavorable situations is plain dumb.

 

[Senator Stanley]

If this season accomplished anything it’s turned a lot of fans off of this team. Can’t imagine many people will care about them much next year.

Major League Baseball finally remembered this season that these games are played for the fans. Apparently the Blue Jays didn't get the memo. I've never watched fewer games, and it was because this team was miserable to watch.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

He wasn't even an option though. Once Beeston was gone, AA was leaving.

Furthermore, I doubt he turns into what he is today if he stayed in Toronto. He learned a lot from Friedman.

Do you have proof of this?

 

[mikeyz]

What does this have to do with Alex Anthopolous?

That he knew Shapiro was a control freak and wanted nothing to do with him.

I liked AA, but why are we still talking about a GM that left 8 years ago?

Because since he's been gone this team has gone completely downhill and he's won not one but two World Series Championships.

 

[Ciao]

I'm not at all disappointed with the Blue Jays. They tried hard and did every bit as well as I expected them to.

All they need to do in the off-season is to get rid of and replace Shapiro, Atkins,
John Schneider, Mattingly, whoevertheHellthehittingcoachesare, Chapman, Kirk, Guerrero, Manoah, Belt, Varsho, Swanson, Richards, Romano, Biggio, Merrifield, Springer, Garcia, Edward Rogers III, the entire Rogers' board of directors, their corporate lawyers and accountants, the guy who cooks the hot dogs, the people who sell the beer, the mascot, the folks that fire the tshirts into the crowd, 40% of the fans, the grounds crew and the people who sweep out the stadium. That ought to do it.

If not, they can knock down the whole stadium and start from scratch.

Bichette, Kiermier, Jansen, the starting pitchers, the bullpen catchers and the ballboys and ballgirls are probably okay.

I wouldn't put much hope on the rest of them.

Pretty hard to win baseball games when they don't score any runs.

 

[Maestro84]

T

This city has demonstrated in the past that it will only show up for a winner when it comes to the Jays. It's possible that things are different now, but I'm not so sure.

It's the same case for most baseball teams as losing teams in the MLB are unwatchable 95% of the time unless they have a few talented rookies. That said, I think the Jays are firmly #3 in this city now as the Raptors pretty clearly have surpassed them and dare I say, they're becoming as big as the Leafs

 

[mikeyz]

Their attendance increased this year. No concern from that area.

They're not the Leafs. Losing in embarrassing fashion and then selling out every home game The following season is not going to happen with them.

It's the same case for most baseball teams as losing teams in the MLB are unwatchable 95% of the time unless they have a few talented rookies. That said, I think the Jays are firmly #3 in this city now as the Raptors pretty clearly have surpassed them and dare I say, they're becoming as big as the Leafs

Lol. Not a chance.



This is 100% bang on.

 

[canucksfan]

Do you have proof of this?

Not sure if serious because it's pretty obvious but just in case

“I felt like going to L.A. was like going to grad school,” Anthopoulos said, citing the chance to learn from Friedman and Farhan Zaidi, now president of baseball operations for the San Francisco Giants.

“When you’re exposed to the best in the industry, you’re going to get better, right?” Anthopoulos said. “It’s like Warren Buffett and a lot of other people say: Surround yourself with people that are better than you are. Andrew and Farhan made me better.”

Andrew Friedman's handprints are evident on all four teams in MLB playoffs

Atlanta Braves GM Alex Anthopoulos is one of several executives with ties to the Dodgers' Andrew Friedman, and both feel the scars of Houston's cheating in 2017.

www.latimes.com

 

[Ciao]

Do you have proof of that?

The proof is in the pudding.

 

[canucksfan]

The proof is in the pudding.

Not sure if Shapiro meddles. Maybe in the first few years but his focus last few years has been on renos and the complex in Dunedin.

As for AA, already said he wasn't going to stay once Beeston was let go.

 

[Maestro84]

They're not the Leafs. Losing in embarrassing fashion and then selling out every home game The following season is not going to happen with them.


Lol. Not a chance.

Leafs are bigger in the GTA suburbs and provincial Ontario but inside the city of Toronto, the Raptors are right there with the Leafs. Leafs always sellout because of corporate tickets

 

[Eyedea]

That he knew Shapiro was a control freak and wanted nothing to do with him.


Because since he's been gone this team has gone completely downhill and he's won not one but two World Series Championships.

Ridiculous hyperbole considering he sacrificed prospect capital for a short term competitive window. Despite all the troubles the Jays have had recently in the postseason… they’ve still gone to the postseason. Could always be a lot worse.

The same people pining for AA are the same people that denigrated his attempt to compete by making the Marlins/Mets trades. How can we realistically expect a Braves-like contender here when most of his core there has been in the organization longer than him?