Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v11 | Wed, Sept 21 | @ NYY | 7:00pm ET/4:00pm PT | Berrios vs Cole

[SpezDispenser]

Never replaced Teo and Siemen offense. Not even Gurriel lol

This was ultimately their downfall. Pitchers shit themselves seeing bichette and guerrero coming up, but then realize there's nothing coming up behind them of any consequence. Had there been a huge hitter behind guerrero, perhaps he sees better pitches and elevates his confidence throughout the year.

At least we appear to have solid options in the pitching department, so we can go get a masher or two this off season.

All this imo, i don't really follow advanced stats in baseball.

 

[Suntouchable13]

This was ultimately their downfall. Pitchers shit themselves seeing bichette and guerrero coming up, but then realize there's nothing coming up behind them of any consequence. Had there been a huge hitter behind guerrero, perhaps he sees better pitches and elevates his confidence throughout the year.

At least we appear to have solid options in the pitching department, so we can go get a masher or two this off season.

All this imo, i don't really follow advanced stats in baseball.

I don’t think I’d want Atkins to make any of those moves in the winter. You have to ask Shapiro why after these years of being in the toilet (i.e rebuilding) 2017, 18, 19, all we have to show for it is a wildcard bubble team. Never even came close to winning the division. Why are the Rays consistently ahead? Why did Baltimore pass Toronto so quickly? If they miss the playoffs and Atkins stays, I am not sure what Shapiro is doing then

 

[canucksfan]

I don’t think I’d want Atkins to make any of those moves in the winter. You have to ask Shapiro why after these years of being in the toilet (i.e rebuilding) 2017, 18, 19, all we have to show for it is a wildcard bubble team. Never even came close to winning the division. Why are the Rays consistently ahead? Why did Baltimore pass Toronto so quickly? If they miss the playoffs and Atkins stays, I am not sure what Shapiro is doing then

Two things that hurt the Jays rebuild, they weren't bad enough for long like the O's were. Jays turned around the team very quickly. Furthermore, outside of Manoah, they didn't develop any pitchers.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Why did the fans pick the biggest series of the year to stay home in droves? On Sunday, after KKs pep rally, they didn’t know they would be lackluster in this series.

Not a real BB fan to begin with but had an opportunity to go to game last night and passed for a steak BBQ on my deck .. my buddy with tickets even came over to my BBQ too and gave tickets to one of his employees .. bottom line both of us saw it same way .. don't want to make da effort to go down to game when team players not committed to winning .. folks can see it .. all you have to do is look at Vlady Kirk Manoah and mgr and all you see is fat f*cks who can't even bother to take care of their bodies as supposed professional athletes .. people don't want to invest time and/or money in that sham .. now if you are going downtown for a summers day anywho well you are already there .. i think it is pretty simple .. Jays kinda similar to Leafs on being clutch except bottom line we have too many lifer Leaf/hockey fans who live eat sleep and sh*t hockey

 

[SpezDispenser]

I don’t think I’d want Atkins to make any of those moves in the winter. You have to ask Shapiro why after these years of being in the toilet (i.e rebuilding) 2017, 18, 19, all we have to show for it is a wildcard bubble team. Never even came close to winning the division. Why are the Rays consistently ahead? Why did Baltimore pass Toronto so quickly? If they miss the playoffs and Atkins stays, I am not sure what Shapiro is doing then

The flip side is, he assembled a heck of a starting rotation though, even with Manoah crapping the bed.

But, yes, the time was now to win.

 

[DueDiligence]

Coming into the last couple of years Vladdy had done nothing to indicate the hype wasn't real. He put up stupid numbers in the minors before coming up and settling into the bigs almost straight away. The fact that he's Vlad Sr's son created awesome story lines (especially in Canada given the Expo history), but it was not the only source of his prospect status.

Hate how he's played recently all you want, it's justified, but don't pretend he's only relevant because of his name.

You know a 4 star recruit is still pretty darn good right? My point was that Vladdy is a really good player but he's not the elite hitter people thought he might become.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I'll assume that I'm considered a "fanboy" so I'll take the bait. What's there to argue about? They look lifeless in the series, much like the Rangers did against the Astros.

I can surely admit when they look like crap, but I guess giving someone their flowers when things go right is considered blind devotion.

There's just no point in tracking a GDT when the team is losing because I know what the replies are and I guess I'd rather be doing something else than commiserating with everyone here by shit talking the club.

Hey, you said it. I actually wouldn't consider you one but I have always respected your self-awareness.

That's the annoying thing about supposed fanboys though. They only want to talk about things when everything is going great, then disengage and disappear when it's time to have the tough and not fun conversations. Any time you question the team you're being "negative." It's like having sports "BPD." They often lack whole object relations as it pertains to the team.

 

[KPower]

This team is an embarrassment, even the fanboys can see that.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not a real BB fan to begin with but had an opportunity to go to game last night and passed for a steak BBQ on my deck .. my buddy with tickets even came over to my BBQ too and gave tickets to one of his employees .. bottom line both of us saw it same way .. don't want to make da effort to go down to game when team players not committed to winning .. folks can see it .. all you have to do is look at Vlady Kirk Manoah and mgr and all you see is fat f*cks who can't even bother to take care of their bodies as supposed professional athletes .. people don't want to invest time and/or money in that sham .. now if you are going downtown for a summers day anywho well you are already there .. i think it is pretty simple .. Jays kinda similar to Leafs on being clutch except bottom line we have too many lifer Leaf/hockey fans who live eat sleep and sh*t hockey

Your situation is on the Wednesday after they lost two games. My original point was about Monday’s game which was hyped as the biggest series of the year and fans didn’t go to the game and I attribute some of it is due to the economy for people living southern Ontario.

If the weather is nice and the roof is open on Saturday, they’ll probably get 35k.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The flip side is, he assembled a heck of a starting rotation though, even with Manoah crapping the bed.

But, yes, the time was now to win.

That’s true, yes. We need a guy who knows how to achieve a good balance. You can’t have a team with all pitch but no hit and vice versa. Atkins has not built that team yet. Can he do it?

 

[Nineteen67]

Two things that hurt the Jays rebuild, they weren't bad enough for long like the O's were. Jays turned around the team very quickly. Furthermore, outside of Manoah, they didn't develop any pitchers.

Which begs the question, why was the minor league system rated so highly?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I really liked the off season and was excited about this team. The level of under performance from the offence is insanity. I do and don’t blame Atkins. I will say it and when we miss the post season he and Schneider are likely gone. But listening to the radio today them talking about Schneider not being here that long and having a 3 year deal he likely stays if the front office does. That’s a huge problem and a sign of what next season will look like

I can't really blame Shatkins for under performance by the team's stars like Vlad and Manoah but it was clear for the first few months that something was off or missing (particularly on offense) and nothing was ever really done to address it. It's not like this result is coming out of nowhere. The signs were there all season but people wanted to bury their heads in the sand and tell any critical voices to just shut up.

 

[ShaneFalco]

This team is an embarrassment, even the fanboys can see that.

What is a fanboy exactly?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

What is a fanboy exactly?

 

[Clark4Ever]

It's tough to be optimistic at this point given our remaining schedule and the quality of the opponents.

 

[SpezDispenser]

That’s true, yes. We need a guy who knows how to achieve a good balance. You can’t have a team with all pitch but no hit and vice versa. Atkins has not built that team yet. Can he do it?

I don't know. It depends on if you want to give him that vlad should have been a lot better. He's done well with Merrifield and kk, now he needs to sacrifice some defence for a mashing 3b.

No one has the answers unfortunately. I'd probably let him have one last off season, but what do i know lol

 

[Jozay]

Thats not great. Looking bleak at this point.

 

[ShaneFalco]

View attachment 743018

Ahhh yes, familiar with a few Leaf fans on here like that

It's tough to be optimistic at this point given our remaining schedule and the quality of the opponents.

And our record against them

 

[Nineteen67]

Thats not great. Looking bleak at this point.

After the Baltimore series, 90 wins was the ceiling. They went 10-5 against the inferior teams, which is one game better than I expected, and set them up to go 10-9 against the teams equal or better than them.
If they lose tonight and 2 of 3 vs Boston they’ll throw in towel, if they haven’t already.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Ahhh yes, familiar with a few Leaf fans on here like that


And our record against them

Oh, for sure. It's even worse in terms of quantity and intensity in that group. Remember when Luke Schenn was supposed to be the next Scott Stevens and our future captain? Schenn has since resurrected his career and become a solid stay at home defenceman, but some of the hyperbole of the "elite shutdown defenseman" was honestly nauseating.

 

[dangomon]

You know a 4 star recruit is still pretty darn good right? My point was that Vladdy is a really good player but he's not the elite hitter people thought he might become.

Absolutely (bolded), but Vlad as a prospect was nothing short of 5 stars and he earned that beyond his namesake. He wasn't the best prospect in all of baseball because of his dad, his bat did that.

Again, he's been disappointing for a while now and there's no arguing that. But his hype isn't solely from his family, it just made for really cool storylines on an incredible prospect.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I have a hard time putting full blame of the offense on Atkins. Like the biggest issues this year has been our core players just straight up not being good enough. If Vlad Kirk and Springer perform to their abilities then the offense is obviously completely different. I don’t think there is much any GM in baseball can do if the core players all play like garbage for a year. That said he is likely still the fall guy for this and I won’t be upset about it. He is decidedly average in my opinion and I just don’t think average wins World Series.

 

[Eyedea]

Hey, you said it. I actually wouldn't consider you one but I have always respected your self-awareness.

That's the annoying thing about supposed fanboys though. They only want to talk about things when everything is going great, then disengage and disappear when it's time to have the tough and not fun conversations. Any time you question the team you're being "negative." It's like having sports "BPD." They often lack whole object relations as it pertains to the team.

I can understand, it's always good to have a critical lens of the organization. Nobody is perfect in this org, not even Babe Schneider (who is as close to perfect as it comes right now).

But we're also witnessing a team that could potentially hit that 90 win mark again and still not make the playoffs. That would be another "successful season" (like 2021) that reaps no rewards. It's fair to say that there are big questions and decisions to be made during the offseason, but this is potentially an unprecedented result.

90+ win teams that did not make postseason since WC2+WC3 was added:

2022 - None
2021 - Jays (91) and Mariners (90)
2020 - None
2019 - Guardians (93)
2018 - Rays (90)
2017 - None
2016 - None
2015 - None
2014 - None
2013 - Rangers (91)
2012 - Rays (90)

The Blue Jays have had one period of time where they hit 90+ wins 3 years in a row ('91, '92, and '93). Obviously two of those culminated in the only championships the Jays have won, but for some to compare the current regime to Ricciardi seems distorted.

I wasn't around to witness the Gillick era, but it feels like some people here have completely forgotten just how bad this Jays team was after him. Even if they miss out this year, which would absolutely be disappointing, how does it stack up to 1987? Or even '88 and '90 for that matter? I'd rather they be in a race than suffering through the 20+ years of mediocrity again.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

We have a few games against the yanks. It’s sadly possible

I know, it won't be for a WC spot though if it happens, but wouldn't be surprised if they catch the Jays in the standings.

 

[DuklaNation]

Its not over yet. But everyone who's followed the team all season must have noticed there seems to be something off with this team. Speculation is warranted to explain the lacklustre performance. The hitting aside from Bichette from the original April roster has been underwhelming.