2023 Trade Deadline (03/03/23 3PM EST)

[EDM]

I don't want to get into all the speculation. I just hope we are able to trade him for a first. Period,

 

[ViD]

"Boston played Jarmo"

What exactly does this mean? What sneaky strategy did Boston employ and how did it benefit them at Jarmo's expense?

If Jarmo truly believed the deal is in place, we wasted two weeks of time and 5 games of Gavrikov’s career, Boston decided to abandon their “verbal agreement”, if there was one, and went the other way, Jarmo will have to scramble now and potentially agree to a lesser deal

 

[DarkandStormy]

Reading this post, I wonder if they looked at Nyquist at the hardest to move because of his injury, so that would be the one they would have to retain because of his injury, because it would be needed to retain an assets, so they are less willing to retain on other contracts. Because of course the biggest contract, of the expiring tradeable assets, is injured. Just a thought I had

Potentially. We only have a week left to find out. The league season is about 73% over (135 days of 185 days have passed) and the contracts are pro-rated. Each team can only have three retained salaries on the books at any given time. The CBJ currently have none. So we're looking at...

-Nyquist -> max retention (50%) of $675km in cash, $743 of a cap hit (I assume both are prorated?)
-Gavrikov -> max retention (50%) of $567k in cash, $378k of a cap hit
-Korpisalo -> max retention (50%) of $176k, both in cash and cap hit

We are not talking large dollars here on any of these guys, and all of the retained salaries would be wiped off the books in July. Really seems like the front office or ownership (or both) are trying to pinch some pennies here.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

"Boston played Jarmo"

What exactly does this mean? What sneaky strategy did Boston employ and how did it benefit them at Jarmo's expense?

They Dunkin'd his donuts.

It's as simple as that

 

[cbjthrowaway]

"Boston played Jarmo"

What exactly does this mean? What sneaky strategy did Boston employ and how did it benefit them at Jarmo's expense?

the sequence of events here is:

1. cbj names price for gavrikov
2. boston agrees, but money doesn't work
3. cbj agrees to hold gavrikov out until the money works
4. boston then tries to make the money work (either via broker or by dumping a salary)
5. washington swoops in with an offer they like more
6. boston pulls the trigger, cbj is left holding the bag

not really a "boston played jarmo" thing – jarmo set a high asking price, which boston met. in the course of trying to complete the deal, boston then found a deal they liked better and took it.

seems that the most straightforward way to avoid this would be for the jackets to retain on gavrikov – he has $1.25m left; retaining 50% of that is $625k that they'd be on the hook for (while getting that same amount off their books).

also seems like ownership wasn't willing to do that, which for a professional sports franchise is frankly embarrassing.

 

[DarkandStormy]

"Boston played Jarmo"

What exactly does this mean? What sneaky strategy did Boston employ and how did it benefit them at Jarmo's expense?

By all accounts, it appears the Blue Jackets thought the deal was done, pending Boston freeing up cap space (shedding Craig Smith, basically). The Blue Jackets were not willing to be that team, so Boston then had time to shop around. They did, and in that time, Washington decided to become sellers with Orlov. So Boston abandoned the "framework" in place for Gavrikov and went a different direction.

It seems that if Jarmo/ownership was willing to retain salary on Gavrikov and/or take back a "bad" expiring contract, the deal would have been done over a week ago.

 

[Cowumbus]

This is not actually correct. The contract was insured, however, it was insured as a result of a shoulder injury and evidently the back was never in play... until it was. So when the back injury put him to LTIR, effectively ending his career, insurance didn't have to pay for the contract.

insurance companies famously will insure anything you want them to, like preexisting conditions!

This Didn't Work: The Blue Jackets Signing Nathan Horton to a 7-Year Contract on the Free Agent Market

One of the biggest free-agent splashes in Blue Jackets history instead turned sour for Columbus. Sadly for both the team and Nathan Horton, the 2013 move didn't work.

www.1stohiobattery.com

Creative David Clarkson-Nathan Horton Trade a Great Step in Maple Leafs' Rebuild

On Thursday, the Toronto Maple Leafs did something which seemed impossible: They traded away David Clarkson, the owner of perhaps the worst contract in the NHL ...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

He never had a history of back injuries.

Nathan Horton on career-threatening injury: ‘I’m like a zombie in the daytime’

“I can’t stand up like a normal person; I can’t bend over,” Horton told the paper. “I can’t run. I can’t play with my kids. To get in and out of the car, I’m like a 75-year-old man … so slow and stiff. I can’t sleep at night. I try to lay down and my back seizes up and I can’t move, so sleeping...

sports.yahoo.com

 

[cbjthrowaway]

He never had a history of back injuries.

per the dispatch:

But Horton arrived with a preexisting condition - a chronically separated shoulder that could not be covered by insurance - and the Blue Jackets knew he would miss at least half of the season rehabilitating. The 41-game mark is the point at which most insurance policies kick in.

The club opted not to buy insurance for the rest of Horton's body that season because it would have been impossible for another injury or illness to cost him half of the season. In other words, he would have crossed that threshold because of the shoulder.

then, before the next season started, horton's back became debilitating. which was before he could have been enrolled in a new policy, meaning that his back would have also been a preexisting condition had they tried to insure his deal in 2014-15, meaning it wouldn't be covered.

hence, david clarkson.

 

[Toe Pick]

Change the GM, coaches, replace the players, I wager it’ll be the same result.

The rumors I'm hearing around local youth hockey circles is that a change of ownership might be forthcoming -- or at the very least being explored. That could be very good or very bad.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If Jarmo truly believed the deal is in place, we wasted two weeks of time and 5 games of Gavrikov’s career, Boston decided to abandon their “verbal agreement”, if there was one, and went the other way, Jarmo will have to scramble now and potentially agree to a lesser deal

the sequence of events here is:

1. cbj names price for gavrikov
2. boston agrees, but money doesn't work
3. cbj agrees to hold gavrikov out until the money works
4. boston then tries to make the money work (either via broker or by dumping a salary)
5. washington swoops in with an offer they like more
6. boston pulls the trigger, cbj is left holding the bag

not really a "boston played jarmo" thing – jarmo set a high asking price, which boston met. in the course of trying to complete the deal, boston then found a deal they liked better and took it.

seems that the most straightforward way to avoid this would be for the jackets to retain on gavrikov – he has $1.25m left; retaining 50% of that is $625k that they'd be on the hook for (while getting that same amount off their books).

also seems like ownership wasn't willing to do that, which for a professional sports franchise is frankly embarrassing.

By all accounts, it appears the Blue Jackets thought the deal was done, pending Boston freeing up cap space (shedding Craig Smith, basically). The Blue Jackets were not willing to be that team, so Boston then had time to shop around. They did, and in that time, Washington decided to become sellers with Orlov. So Boston abandoned the "framework" in place for Gavrikov and went a different direction.

It seems that if Jarmo/ownership was willing to retain salary on Gavrikov and/or take back a "bad" expiring contract, the deal would have been done over a week ago.

I am still trying to understand how any of this is Boston “playing” Jarmo.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The rumors I'm hearing around local youth hockey circles is that a change of ownership might be forthcoming -- or at the very least being explored. That could be very good or very bad.

les wexner presents: the abercrombie and fitch blue jackets

 

[Cowumbus]

the sequence of events here is:

1. cbj names a very high price for gavrikov
2. boston agrees, but money doesn't work
3. cbj agrees to hold gavrikov out until the money works
4. boston then tries to make the money work (either via broker or by dumping a salary)

4.5. 2 days pass and Jarmo still doesn’t think something is fishy
4.75. Jarmo does not look into making the money work, aka Gavrikov 25-50 percent retained by the Wild for a 4th (similar to what he did on the Domi deal)

5. washington swoops in with an offer they like more
6. boston pulls the trigger, cbj is left holding the bag

 

[cbjthrowaway]

4.5. 2 days pass and Jarmo still doesn’t think something is fishy

this looks like "thinking something might be fishy" to me

4.75. Jarmo does not look into making the money work, aka Gavrikov 25-50 percent retained by the Wild for a 4th (similar to what he did on the Domi deal)

how, exactly, do you reconcile this take (assuming that jarmo didn't look into getting another team to retain on his player's contract) with the fact that he is the only GM in recent memory to do exactly that via the domi trade?

 

[Cowumbus]

per the dispatch:

then, before the next season started, horton's back became debilitating. which was before he could have been enrolled in a new policy, meaning that his back would have also been a preexisting condition had they tried to insure his deal in 2014-15, meaning it wouldn't be covered.

hence, david clarkson.

Yeah. July 5th 2013 he had zero back problems.

“The club opted not to buy insurance for the rest of Horton's body that season because it would have been impossible for another injury or illness to cost him half of the season. In other words, he would have crossed that threshold because of the shoulder.”

They could have insured it.

 

[DarkandStormy]

If the holdup with the Gavrikov trade was that Boston needed/wanted Columbus to take on Craig Smith *AND* retain 50% on Gavrikov, we are talking about $1.75m as the reason this deal didn't get done.

Embarrassing.

 

[Cowumbus]

this looks like "thinking something might be fishy" to me



how, exactly, do you reconcile this take (assuming that jarmo didn't look into getting another team to retain on his player's contract) with the fact that he is the only GM in recent memory to do exactly that via the domi trade?

Because Gavrikov would be on the Bruins if he did.
“Ball is in Boston’s court”

 

[koteka]

the sequence of events here is:

1. cbj names price for gavrikov
2. boston agrees, but money doesn't work
3. cbj agrees to hold gavrikov out until the money works
4. boston then tries to make the money work (either via broker or by dumping a salary)
5. washington swoops in with an offer they like more
6. boston pulls the trigger, cbj is left holding the bag

not really a "boston played jarmo" thing – jarmo set a high asking price, which boston met. in the course of trying to complete the deal, boston then found a deal they liked better and took it.

seems that the most straightforward way to avoid this would be for the jackets to retain on gavrikov – he has $1.25m left; retaining 50% of that is $625k that they'd be on the hook for (while getting that same amount off their books).

also seems like ownership wasn't willing to do that, which for a professional sports franchise is frankly embarrassing.

Assuming the rest is reasonably accurate, we don’t know when 3 occurred relative to 2.

Also don’t know how strong 2 is. Was it ”that sounds reasonable, let us see if we can put that together” or “you have a deal, let’s shake on it, and we’ll try to move some assets around” or somewhere in between.

Also I think there is a 4.5 — Jackets announce (according to some tweet a couple of days ago) that they aren’t waiting forever and may start looking for other partners.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I am still trying to understand how any of this is Boston “playing” Jarmo.

It's more that Jarmo let his patience get the better of him. We obviously don't know if it was the front office or ownership making the call on not retaining salary and/or taking back Craig Smith's contract. That appears to have been the hold up, which allowed Boston more time to seek out other avenues and Washington then became sellers with Orlov.

Additionally, I'm not sure any of this "framework in place" stuff leaks over the last week if Jarmo was actually unsure about the deal being done. Someone was very leaky on the CBJ side.

 

[ViD]

At this point it will be extremely interesting to know

1. If Gavrikov gets traded at all
2. What the return will be, knowing what Boston initially had agreed to

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Yeah. July 5th 2013 he had zero back problems.

“The club opted not to buy insurance for the rest of Horton's body that season because it would have been impossible for another injury or illness to cost him half of the season. In other words, he would have crossed that threshold because of the shoulder.”

They could have insured it.

the contract started on july 5th 2013, the insurance coverage is separate.

the shoulder was a preexisting condition, meaning any games that he would've missed in 13-14 due to the shoulder injury would not have been covered. as you just quoted, he was already going to miss those games, meaning that any other injury could not have caused him to miss games, meaning there was no reason to insure it at that time.

by the time they could elect coverage (the following year), he'd developed a back problem that, as a preexisting condition (as the insurance company would consider it), would not have been covered.

the only scenario in which they could have insured the back injury is if they'd done that while he was already out with the shoulder injury, but they only get payouts if he misses games due to something that's insured, which the shoulder wasn't.

it's like buying a used car that has to get the brakes replaced, choosing to not drive it until you get the brakes replaced, choosing to not insure it until you can drive it, then the shop where it's being fixed gets blown up in a drone strike. the limu emu isn't gonna give you a policy after that.

 

[Cowumbus]

the contract started on july 5th 2013, the insurance coverage is separate.

the shoulder was a preexisting condition, meaning any games that they would've been paid out for in 13-14 due to the shoulder injury would not have been covered. as you just quoted, he was already going to miss those games (due to the shoulder injury), meaning that any other injury could not have caused him to miss games, meaning there was no reason to insure it at that time.

I understand how insurance works. My point is that they could have insured his back at that time. He was the most expensive UFA in club history, it is on the GM/team to make that call.

by the time they could insure the following year on his deal, he'd developed a back problem that, as a preexisting condition (as the insurance company would consider it), would not have been covered.

Unless they had insured it the year before.

the only scenario in which they could have insured the back injury is if they'd done that while he was already out with the shoulder injury, but they only get payouts if he misses games due to something that's insured, which the shoulder wasn't.

Exactly, but they still could have.


CBJ decided not to insure his back, and it bit them in the ass. Then ownership decides if they are going to deal out all that money, they want to spend it on someone who can play. That is not an outlandish thing to do.
But you used that as a negative against ownership
@cbjthrowaway: “same ownership that insisted on moving horton for clarkson because they'd rather spend $5m on a shitty player than on a guy who isn't playing.”

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I probably shouldn’t fuss about it because no one likes it when I do but I can’t help but notice we’re relitigating a decade-old free agent signing in the 2023 trade deadline thread.

 

[EspenK]

If we are going to talk Horton again, how about Kopitar/Brule, Filatov, Carter, Gabrikov, Nash, etc, etc.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Gabrikov

Is that you, Rimer?

 

[BB88]

It would be a major mistake for Columbu owners to not be ready to retain/take an expiring contract