Transfer: 2023 Summer Transfer Rumors and Discussion - Closed Window Edition

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I think yall should trust Klopp more. If he wants him theres probably a good reason. Im not his biggest fan though.

 

[Savant]

We've gone around in circles on it. His being able to play multiple positions is still a desire for both the manager, and the stat guys. Whether they've found the best use for him, or that he fits what they want to do is certainly up for debate. He brings a physical industry, along with ability to get forward.

For me, I see them trying to get something akin to Hendo / Gini in their pomp. His actual pressing / tackle stats aren't bad for what it's worth. Might not work, but if it doesn't, you can make use of him in a tweener role.

smarterscout

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But if it happens, and that's still a big if, I still would put Klopp, and whomever is encouraging the move over what we all think on a hockey message board.

That’s a ridiculous comp. He is nothing like those players. The whole multiple postion thing only works if he is good in multiple positions. He is not.

I think yall should trust Klopp more. If he wants him theres probably a good reason. Im not his biggest fan though.

I trusted Michael Edwards. He lost a power struggle with Klopp and staff and he left the team. Same thing happened with Julian Ward after less than six months on the job. Klopp wanted Gotze over Mane and Brandt over Salah. I trust Klopp to manage. I do not trust Klopp on transfers.

Mount doesn’t solve Liverpool’s problems that they don’t have any true midfielders. Mount doesn’t help fix LFC’s midfielder because he is not a midfielder

 

[KJS14]

I mean I think Mount can be used as that hybrid 8/10 in a 3-man midfield if you have the right 6 and other 8 playing with him. I wouldn't have called Odegaard an ideal 8 either, but he operates perfectly in that hybrid 8/10 role for Arsenal.

Though, I'm not a huge fan of Mount overall. So the money could definitely be spent better.

 

[Savant]

I mean I think Mount can be used as that hybrid 8/10 in a 3-man midfield if you have the right 6 and other 8 playing with him. I wouldn't have called Odegaard an ideal 8 either, but he operates perfectly in that hybrid 8/10 role for Arsenal.

Though, I'm not a huge fan of Mount overall. So the money could definitely be spent better.

We’ve tried that hybrid role with Elliott there. Is Mount better than Elliott? Yes. Is Mount at the cost of his transfer fee and 200k + p/w waged a significant enough upgrade over Elliott? Especially if they can’t spend that money else where because of the Net Spend Gods? Hell No.

This is what I mean when I say Mount would have the same exact problems that he has at Chelsea at Liverpool. When LFC play with that hybrid role, they cannot defend at all against any team that will try to attack. We’ve seen it all season.

 

[KJS14]

We’ve tried that hybrid role with Elliott there. Is Mount better than Elliott? Yes. Is Mount at the cost of his transfer fee and 200k + p/w waged a significant enough upgrade over Elliott? Especially if they can’t spend that money else where because of the Net Spend Gods? Hell No.

This is what I mean when I say Mount would have the same exact problems that he has at Chelsea at Liverpool. When LFC play with that hybrid role, they cannot defend at all against any team that will try to attack. We’ve seen it all season.

I agree that LFC could use the funds better elsewhere, and Mount will almost certainly be overpriced in terms of both the transfer fee and wages. I'm just saying that he could be a good hybrid 8/10 if you had the right other midfielders around him (e.g. prime Fabinho and Henderson).

 

[KJS14]

In Arsenal news, we're still primarily being linked to Declan Rice in the summer, but there's been some recent links to Romeo Lavia as well (along with Chelsea and United).

 

[bleedblue1223]

In Arsenal news, we're still primarily being linked to Declan Rice in the summer, but there's been some recent links to Romeo Lavia as well (along with Chelsea and United).

I'd expect Rice to go to Arsenal, and I'm hoping Lavia comes to Chelsea.

 

[KJS14]

I'd expect Rice to go to Arsenal, and I'm hoping Lavia comes to Chelsea.

I'd rather have Rice, but I'm not so excited about the potential fee for him. Unless we get lucky, West Ham gets relegated, and we get him at a reduced fee.

 

[Chimaera]

You're talking out of your ass on the Edwards stuff. Try and read the tea leaves, sure... but the dude himself said he felt he accomplished what he could and is moving on to take a recharge. In my opinion, he would have another job, if he was pushed out. I have no idea on Ward, but I have a suspicion it's more a matter of took the job, but maybe does not feel it's the right fit when it comes down to it. Especially when it's a likely rebuild.

And on what Mount would or wouldn't cost, we have no idea. He will be paid well, and yes, Chelsea aren't going to let him go for cheap. But they also need to move contracts and bodies out. That could mean a cut price on a guy who is well within his rights to say, forget it, I'm walking for ZERO after my contract ends in 12 months. The salary comments alone are ridiculous. The only players who make above 200k are Mo Salah and Virgil at 220k. He's going to walk in and make more than everyone but Salah? Really? No chance. He likely makes close to 80k at Chelsea. He's not demanding 200k to come to Liverpool. He's likely going to get a 140-160k, with some escalators / bonus options like they do on every contract.

Even the supposed Jude contract armageddon, likely is not the case. Yes, he would get a significant wage increase over what's likely a pretty modest contract rate in Germany. But Liverpool have a pretty tight structure. A player is going to have to take lower wages than he might get at Real or City (who pay under the table) to be coming here. Or they'll go elsewhere. You know that best for all your FSG moaning.

Lastly, just saying they're not a similar comparison is pretty ridiculous. It's not me saying it. Look at some of the actual stats of players. Try and understand some of the stat metrics of the guy in charge of analytics now. Pitch Control is the key stat they attempt to analyze (at least publicly) along with pressing, and its relationships to chances created. Mount, and his energy, along with pace, likely performs very well at this metric. Gini, before he got here and became much of the engine of the roster played further up. Henderson before Klopp, was much further forward, and spent more energy getting into the box. Shit, he only really moved to a holding position because there was no Fabinho. However, at the end of the day, more good, talented players, in the roster, works for me. I trust Klopp to get it right.

We have no real idea for either situation. I get this thread is the transfer speculation thread, but let us at least try and wait and see on some of it. If it's even going to be a thing. Liverpool are not this transparent on ANY move.

 

[Savant]

I agree that LFC could use the funds better elsewhere, and Mount will almost certainly be overpriced in terms of both the transfer fee and wages. I'm just saying that he could be a good hybrid 8/10 if you had the right other midfielders around him (e.g. prime Fabinho and Henderson).

I mean that’s the problem though. Prime Fabinho and Prime Henderson are gone. And if you are getting Mount you are taking away from the money you need to get those players - so the question is if Chelsea didn’t want to build their midfield around Mason Mount, why should Liverpool?

 

[Savant]

You're talking out of your ass on the Edwards stuff. Try and read the tea leaves, sure... but the dude himself said he felt he accomplished what he could and is moving on to take a recharge. In my opinion, he would have another job, if he was pushed out. I have no idea on Ward, but I have a suspicion it's more a matter of took the job, but maybe does not feel it's the right fit when it comes down to it. Especially when it's a likely rebuild.

And on what Mount would or wouldn't cost, we have no idea. He will be paid well, and yes, Chelsea aren't going to let him go for cheap. But they also need to move contracts and bodies out. That could mean a cut price on a guy who is well within his rights to say, forget it, I'm walking for ZERO after my contract ends in 12 months. The salary comments alone are ridiculous. The only players who make above 200k are Mo Salah and Virgil at 220k. He's going to walk in and make more than everyone but Salah? Really? No chance. He likely makes close to 80k at Chelsea. He's not demanding 200k to come to Liverpool. He's likely going to get a 140-160k, with some escalators / bonus options like they do on every contract.

Even the supposed Jude contract armageddon, likely is not the case. Yes, he would get a significant wage increase over what's likely a pretty modest contract rate in Germany. But Liverpool have a pretty tight structure. A player is going to have to take lower wages than he might get at Real or City (who pay under the table) to be coming here. Or they'll go elsewhere. You know that best for all your FSG moaning.

Lastly, just saying they're not a similar comparison is pretty ridiculous. It's not me saying it. Look at some of the actual stats of players. Try and understand some of the stat metrics of the guy in charge of analytics now. Pitch Control is the key stat they attempt to analyze (at least publicly) along with pressing, and its relationships to chances created. Mount, and his energy, along with pace, likely performs very well at this metric. Gini, before he got here and became much of the engine of the roster played further up. Henderson before Klopp, was much further forward, and spent more energy getting into the box. Shit, he only really moved to a holding position because there was no Fabinho. However, at the end of the day, more good, talented players, in the roster, works for me. I trust Klopp to get it right.

We have no real idea for either situation. I get this thread is the transfer speculation thread, but let us at least try and wait and see on some of it. If it's even going to be a thing. Liverpool are not this transparent on ANY move.

You must believe in the tooth fairy if you believe those statements are anything other than lip service. He doesn’t have another job because he can choose Whatever spot he wants next. He is waiting for the right job. Ward was the named successor and he said no thank you after less than a year. This isn’t rocket science.

Ask the Chelsea fans what Mount wants to stay. Spoiler Alert - he wants Reece James money. If he’s not taking RJ money from Chelsea, why is he taking less from Liverpool. It doesn’t make sense. He’s not taking 150k to leave to Liverpool. If he leaves he is getting paid and it’s going to break LFC wage structure. Period.

If Liverpool aren’t in UCL they can’t do this arrogant trust the process contract that are bonus heavy. Jude is signing with Utd anyway so they don’t need to worry about it. And how in the world do Jude and Mount fit in the same midfield? We’ve already seen it doesn’t work for England. And again if no Jude, why should LFC think building the midfield around Mount is a good idea if Chelsea don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe he can do pitch control maybe he can’t be if Chelsea with their mighty analytics and infinity money don’t think Mount is right guy, then there is Zero reason that LFC should

I’m speculating on transfers in the transfer speculation thread. I am speculating that this would be a bad transfer.

 

[S E P H]

Mount is a good player, however, I think it's fair to say he might have played beyond his talent level a couple of seasons ago and the one you get is the one you're seeing now. With that said, I am not sure what he brings that Oxlade-Chamberlain or Gakpo currently provides...

 

[Savant]

Mount is a good player, however, I think it's fair to say he might have played beyond his talent level a couple of seasons ago and the one you get is the one you're seeing now. With that said, I am not sure what he brings that Oxlade-Chamberlain or Gakpo currently provides...

While Chamberlain will leave on a free, you are right. He doesn’t do anything that makes LFC better. At least nothing that Mount uniquely would provide.

LFC need to sign Mac Allister, not buy Mount to help enable Chelsea to buy Mac Allister; but that would be typical. LFC got out-maneuvered by Wolverhampton, so Chelsea are going to have their way with them.

LFC should sign Mac Allister and Manu Kone. Bellingham (lol) would be a nice bonus but he is going Utd. But we are going to get stuck with Mount and Matheus Nunes and Klopp is going to have no idea why they are bad again next year

 

[S E P H]

While Chamberlain will leave on a free, you are right. He doesn’t do anything that makes LFC better. At least nothing that Mount uniquely would provide.

LFC need to sign Mac Allister, not buy Mount to help enable Chelsea to buy Mac Allister; but that would be typical. LFC got out-maneuvered by Wolverhampton, so Chelsea are going to have their way with them.

LFC should sign Mac Allister and Manu Kone. Bellingham (lol) would be a nice bonus but he is going Utd. But we are going to get stuck with Mount and Matheus Nunes and Klopp is going to have no idea why they are bad again next year

LFC was hitting on like every transfer for at least three seasons, so the mathematics of probability say that success will eventually go back to the average level when more transfers are being made. Mac Allister is definitely a must for you lot and he also makes Firminho redundant since he reminds me of a younger Aaron Ramsey in that aggressive #10 or even must I say, a false 9 (but I might be going out to lunch on that one).

Not to sound like I am beating a dead horse, but a lot of your players have played a crazy amount of minutes. Upgrading the midfield will definitely make KFC a top 5 club again, but I think there's going to be more pain as Salah, VvD, Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, and Salah all start to break down. Even for how good some of the replacements have been like Diaz, Jota, Nunez, Bajcetic, and Tsimikas, they aren't replacing the former players.

 

[Evilo]

LFC should sign Mac Allister and Manu Kone. Bellingham (lol) would be a nice bonus but he is going Utd. But we are going to get stuck with Mount and Matheus Nunes and Klopp is going to have no idea why they are bad again next year

You should sign this guy :

 

[Savant]

You should sign this guy :

I like Thuram but I like Kone better. I think there are a couple of L1 mids I take over Thuram. Camara at Monaco might be my favorite L1 mid all things considered. I think Le Fee is a lot of fun too but (rightfully or wrongfully) I worry about him in England. Right behind them I have Thuram and Majer. I think Thuram and Camara convert best to PL. but I just think Kone is better than them.

Another interesting one in Mendy at Angers. Could be next years Onana. Not sure he is as athletic though

 

[Evilo]

I like Thuram better than all of those. Le Fee is clearly better technically. Thuram is better than all L1 midfielders otherwise.
I'd take Thuram over Kone too but I'd understand someone thinking differently.
I like Camara but Thuram is way better. Few MFers can do that play there from breaking the lines to wonder one timed shot.

 

[luiginb]

I have them as Le Fee > Kone > Thuram > Camara, but maybe it's because I tend to value more offensive play. They're all good young players though, who could help any team that sign them.

 

[maclean]

While Chamberlain will leave on a free, you are right. He doesn’t do anything that makes LFC better. At least nothing that Mount uniquely would provide.

LFC need to sign Mac Allister, not buy Mount to help enable Chelsea to buy Mac Allister; but that would be typical. LFC got out-maneuvered by Wolverhampton, so Chelsea are going to have their way with them.

LFC should sign Mac Allister and Manu Kone. Bellingham (lol) would be a nice bonus but he is going Utd. But we are going to get stuck with Mount and Matheus Nunes and Klopp is going to have no idea why they are bad again next year

If it's any consolation, yes Chelsea has their way with everybody on the transfer market, but, well...

 

[Savant]

This is an interesting one. Supposedly an extension was close but I guess not?

This is probably the right move, but this is also where the Net Spend model breaks though; when you can’t generate sales when players are leaving for free.

 

[Chimaera]

They need more than one. Even if they got Mount, there's still plenty of room for two or three others pending on age, salary and stature. At minimum this summer, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Milner are walking. Well, I guess Milner could transition to a coaching role, but he's likely not playing any meaningful minutes here. Henderson is winding down.

Thiago is made of glass still. Curtis Jones can't stay fit, and likely is a tweener. For my money, if someone made a solid offer, they'd let him move on. Fabinho's finally finding some form, but he isn't assured. Bajectic is a good young talent, but he's 18, and should not be the foundation of a rebuilt side. Sure... he can grow into it, but you need to surround him with things. Elliott is fine, but also young. I don't know how they see Carvalho. I think he's good enough to help offensively, but likely not a midfielder yet defensively to play in a 3.

Tyler Morton's still going to come back, and I think the club likes what he brings, but he's also young and inexperienced. I would not be shocked to see another loan, maybe to a lower EPL side.

None of the other kids really likely are ready to make a break through. I think Clarkson is likely sold on.

It's not an either or situation. If it is, then the whole process is a waste of time. Most felt they were a player or two light going into the midfield (though I guess with Bajectic knocking on the door, or the hope that Jones would step up... they did not feel as light). So with 3 players coming out? It has to be at least 2 or 3 in. 2 if you get two top players I guess, and really think you can get something out Morton or Henderson/Thiago have enough to contribute.




On the other news, Firmino going is a bit sad, but it's certainly best for both parties. He's going to get zero minutes if most are fit.

 

[Savant]

I like Thuram better than all of those. Le Fee is clearly better technically. Thuram is better than all L1 midfielders otherwise.
I'd take Thuram over Kone too but I'd understand someone thinking differently.
I like Camara but Thuram is way better. Few MFers can do that play there from breaking the lines to wonder one timed shot.

I have them as Le Fee > Kone > Thuram > Camara, but maybe it's because I tend to value more offensive play. They're all good young players though, who could help any team that sign them.

I think it depends what you are using them for. Honestly if I was Chelsea I’d be trying to sign Camara to play next to Enzo.

When it comes to Kone and Thuram, and I’ve seen more of Kone so that could be a factor, I just think Kone is more consistent. I’d take them both honestly but if was one or the other, I think Kone is safer. I think there is room for both but I doubt that happens.

They need more than one. Even if they got Mount, there's still plenty of room for two or three others pending on age, salary and stature. At minimum this summer, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Milner are walking. Well, I guess Milner could transition to a coaching role, but he's likely not playing any meaningful minutes here. Henderson is winding down.

Thiago is made of glass still. Curtis Jones can't stay fit, and likely is a tweener. For my money, if someone made a solid offer, they'd let him move on. Fabinho's finally finding some form, but he isn't assured. Bajectic is a good young talent, but he's 18, and should not be the foundation of a rebuilt side. Sure... he can grow into it, but you need to surround him with things. Elliott is fine, but also young. I don't know how they see Carvalho. I think he's good enough to help offensively, but likely not a midfielder yet defensively to play in a 3.

Tyler Morton's still going to come back, and I think the club likes what he brings, but he's also young and inexperienced. I would not be shocked to see another loan, maybe to a lower EPL side.

None of the other kids really likely are ready to make a break through. I think Clarkson is likely sold on.

It's not an either or situation. If it is, then the whole process is a waste of time. Most felt they were a player or two light going into the midfield (though I guess with Bajectic knocking on the door, or the hope that Jones would step up... they did not feel as light). So with 3 players coming out? It has to be at least 2 or 3 in. 2 if you get two top players I guess, and really think you can get something out Morton or Henderson/Thiago have enough to contribute.




On the other news, Firmino going is a bit sad, but it's certainly best for both parties. He's going to get zero minutes if most are fit.

I don’t want to hear about Tyler Morton.

Tyler Morton is a great candidate for the next guy that Klopp talks about how great he is and then either loans him out again or only plays him in like four games. I’m not buying that Morton is a solution

 

[Chimaera]

He's fricking 20. He's homegrown, where quotas do still matter... and he's not going to step in and play any significant minutes. But he does help fill out the squad. He also costs a grand total of f*** all nothing.

Do I want him starting significant matches against opponents who are good? No, I really don't. Do I even see him starting any significant minutes? Hell no. But I'd rather him play than the tired corpse of one legged Hendo running around at times. Or when Thiago gasses out at 65, he can come run around a bit against f***ing Fulham.

Having him in the squad actually offers some depth. And shit, none of us thought Bajectic was this good prior to now. So, who the heck knows on who can break through. Morton has been pretty decent at times getting a boat load of minutes for Blackburn. I'd rather give him a look than just say get the heck out or beg Milner for another year. Worst case, he's a squad player, and you turn him into 8-10 million.

 

[Savant]

He's fricking 20. He's homegrown, where quotas do still matter... and he's not going to step in and play any significant minutes. But he does help fill out the squad. He also costs a grand total of f*** all nothing.

Do I want him starting significant matches against opponents who are good? No, I really don't. Do I even see him starting any significant minutes? Hell no. But I'd rather him play than the tired corpse of one legged Hendo running around at times. Or when Thiago gasses out at 65, he can come run around a bit against f***ing Fulham.

Having him in the squad actually offers some depth. And shit, none of us thought Bajectic was this good prior to now. So, who the heck knows on who can break through. Morton has been pretty decent at times getting a boat load of minutes for Blackburn. I'd rather give him a look than just say get the heck out or beg Milner for another year. Worst case, he's a squad player, and you turn him into 8-10 million.

I don’t want to hear about homegrown quota either. Sign a 40 year old third string keeper like City and United did. Scott Carson is taking up a homegrown spot at City. Granted they probably need his UCL winning experience in the squad (because he is the only player at City that has one), but there are much easier ways to get a homegrown spot than overcommitting to young players or getting foisted players that your rivals don’t want anymore.

If Morton comes on and he is like 7th choice? Sure but he’s not getting in front of a guy like Bajcetic and LFC still need upgrades elsewhere so I just don’t see what his path to minutes is; therefore I think he probably goes on loan again - he will get the Harry Wilson treatment. Trying to be realistic here.

Also, I could be wrong on this but @hatterson would probably know; I don’t think Morton is old enough to count as a homegrown slot? So not sure we’d get the benefit on that either.

 

[Evilo]

I have them as Le Fee > Kone > Thuram > Camara, but maybe it's because I tend to value more offensive play. They're all good young players though, who could help any team that sign them.

In terms of offense, Le Fee is clearly head and shoulders above those indeed. But the other 3 are physical specimen who can make some damage in midfield while Le Fee can't.