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2023 NHL Draft situation

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Who is Link said:
How do you all see the Kraken's turnaround and think the only way to build a team is to root for several more years of trying to lose? Did anyone think they were a Burakovsky and Bjorkstrand free agent signing away from being one of the top teams in the conference? Did they announce that they were going for it this year? Should they still be trying to lose every game since they weren't expected to be competent?
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As an expansion team the Kraken weren’t saddled with huge contracts for aging stars like a lot of other teams, they had a blank slate to work with.

They were able to use their cap space to acquire additional picks for assisting other teams with their cap issues; draft useful players other teams couldn’t protect and in many cases flip those players for additional picks; and as you mentioned sign free agents by out bidding other more cap strapped teams.

They were also given the 2nd overall pick in their first draft and were able to select a stud, franchise type centre in Marty Beniers.

So a big part of the Kraken’s turnaround is a whole new 1st line of Beniers (draft) and Burakovsky and Bjorkstrand; acquired as a result of available cap space and draft picks acquired due to having cap space.

After this season the Hawks could be in a very similar position; potentially Bedard or Fantilli and a boatload of cap space to weaponize with Toews and Kane’s contracts expiring. To acquire the necessary assets to turnaround this franchise, a couple more seasons of losing and top picks can only help, just as it did leading up to the 2006 & 2007 drafts.
 
How many teams should be actively trying to lose?

"last 10", every team that isn't in treat to win the Cup? or how many?
 
Pertti said:
How many teams should be actively trying to lose?

"last 10", every team that isn't in treat to win the Cup? or how many?
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I think it depends on a team's ability to accurately assess their ability to win it all.

There are a lot of teams that go all-in due to expiring contracts, timing of talent, etc. and shouldn't but are somewhat forced to, given where they are at. I look at a team like Calgary last year. Many folks said they should sell the farm and rebuild or chase Bedard, but you knew that'd never happen. Too much of their core was in a "win-now" mode based on their contracts, ages, etc. Hell, even Sutter as a coach just signed an extension. They had to go for it. Typically, you won't see those moves result in the ultimate success but they were fairly shrewd in what they got back given Gaudreau and Tkachuk left, and it might work out.

The point is, you need to have a strong roster built with few holes and a lot of depth in order to have a viable shot at the Cup. If you're missing a few of those things, you work hard to use assets to patch it up. If you're far off, you should bottom out. Trying to build a Cup-contending roster while constantly sitting in the middle of the league is a hell of a way to depress a fan base.
 
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EddieTheEagle said:
Honestly, yes. If they had waited one more year in an attempt to be highly competitive, they'd have a brighter future with an actual shot at the Cup. They're admittedly in a better position than most, given their very generous expansion draft rules, but stumbling the first two years would have been acceptable and possibly given them the highly-drafted game-breaking talent you need to win the Cup.

Take a look at who has actually won anything over the last decade or more and let me know when they didn't have a bottoming-out period prior to their success, or at the very least find a way to add former high-end draft talent (St. Louis may be the only anomaly).

What you're describing regarding Seattle's current approach is a great recipe for a treadmill team. Same with the Hawks. I'd rather suffer through the terrible years of losing to come out the other side with a legit shot at a Cup than try to swing for the fences year after year. The system is designed so bad teams become great and great teams become bad.

EDIT: before you throw Buffalo and Edmonton and all the recently highly drafting teams at me with limited success, I'll just say that it takes time and you're seeing the MacKinnons surpass the Crosbys and you'll then see the McDavids (if they do it right) surpass MacKinnon, and then Bedard and co. surpass McDavid. It depends on when you bottom out in relation to the elite-level talent that still exists in the league.
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I never look to Buffalo, Edmonton, or any of the usual lottery teams as any sort of good example beyond showing how a losing mentality can spread like a virus through an organization. I'm more interested in both of the newer teams and seeing what they are doing. I assume there's fresh thinking in the new franchises. They are more likely to find a new way of attacking the age-old problem of irrelevance from perpetual mediocrity. Last year, people were ready to write off Vegas as having missed their window, yet they rebounded nicely. I don't follow them closely--what did they do to stay afloat rather than fall deeper into the muck of mediocrity?
 
RememberTheRoar said:
I’be been watching clips and reading about Leo Carlsson, and I’m getting excited about that kid.

If he’s potentially the “worst case scenario” that really makes this season much less painful.

That kid seems like a total f***ing stud.
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Interesting.

I think he's one of the most NHL ready players in the draft. Could play a 3C, potentially 2C role right away.

But he's a very average skater. There are players that make it work, like Tavares, but still something to be cautious of.
 
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Who is Link said:
I never look to Buffalo, Edmonton, or any of the usual lottery teams as any sort of good example beyond showing how a losing mentality can spread like a virus through an organization. I'm more interested in both of the newer teams and seeing what they are doing. I assume there's fresh thinking in the new franchises. They are more likely to find a new way of attacking the age-old problem of irrelevance from perpetual mediocrity. Last year, people were ready to write off Vegas as having missed their window, yet they rebounded nicely. I don't follow them closely--what did they do to stay afloat rather than fall deeper into the muck of mediocrity?
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If you’re gotcha argument was 2 teams that couldn’t draft for shit out of the top 10 then good job! You did a great job at picking the two worst run organizations for the last 30 years. You mention them but don’t mention Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Colorado, that won due to building through the draft. Even Edmonton has turned it around now and is recovering from all the damage Chiarelli has done to that team and have been a consistent playoff team even making the west finals.

You’re argument was booty cheeks. Even Vegas started with the equivalent to 3 2nd lines thanks to GMs outsmarting themselves at the expansion draft. Even with Lehner injured they still have an elite C group, a #1D decide he doesn’t want to be in that dump St Louis. Every single person knew it took a mountain of injuries for them to miss the playoffs last season
 
Kevin Musto said:
I haven't read what others are saying, but I doubt that's a consensus opinion.

Button is hard to take seriously when he doesn't explain his rankings.
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I don’t want to be mean, but it is kind of ironic that you’re saying someone else has takes that are hard to take seriously.
 
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RememberTheRoar said:
I don’t want to be mean, but it is kind of ironic that you’re saying someone else has takes that are hard to take seriously.
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I back up my rankings, I show my work, I explain why I've ranked them where they are.

Button doesn't.

You don't have to agree with my takes, but at least you'll know why you disagree.
 
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Kevin Musto said:
I back up my rankings, I show my work, I explain why I've ranked them where they are.

Button doesn't.

You don't have to agree with my takes, but at least you'll know why you disagree.
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People disagree because the guys you covet suck. They tend to have one middling skill but greatly lack in most other parts of the game.

I find it humorous that you do draft rankings. It’s gotta be a who’s who of guys to not pick.
 
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Naw some of us appreciate Musto's work and insight on his draft list even if he's just as wrong (if not more) than most evaluators. It's nice to at least get a gauge on what he sees in a player. We may not agree with him but it isn't because he's making shit up and hoping it sticks.
 
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RememberTheRoar said:
That part is true, but do you think you have better overall judgement of prospects than Button?
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Hard to know when he doesn't explain himself.

The most I ever see from him is "this guy was good at the Hlinka Gretzky tournament and the World Juniors" since that's all he ever seems to base his rankings on. Whether that's true or not we'll never know because he doesn't provide insight.

But he has some wacky rankings.

Let's look at 2019.

Button had Kirby Dach at 12. I had Dach at 5. Button had Moritz Seider at 26. I had Seider at 13. In those instances, I was much closer to the truth than him.

I'm sure you can point to instances where his rankings look better than mine but I don't think anyone could provide evidence to suggest that his judgement is definitively better than mine.
 
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