HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[SOLR]

He played in the Swiss league lol. One of the top leagues un europe and arguably a top 5 league in the world. Just shows you dont know what youre talking about.

Lol way to jump the gun. I knew that...simple attribution error.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Lol way to jump the gun. I knew that...

So then why did you say "Austrian leagues aren't exactly comparable to much of anything"?

If you said Austrian by mistake but meant to say Swiss then it's just...wrong. The Swiss league is very good, it's on par with or better than the Finnish league.

 

[SOLR]

So then why did you say "Austrian leagues aren't exactly comparable to much of anything"?

Because Swiss leagues or Austrian Leagues are not comparable to Swede or Liga or KHL

My mental note is simple, he's not playing in a tier 1 league, he's in Europe's tier 2 (Swiss, DEL, Czech, Slovaks).

 

[WeThreeKings]

Because Swiss leagues or Austrian Leagues are not comparable to Swede or Liga or KHL

My mental note is simple, he's not playing in a tier 1 league, he's in Europe's tier 2.

In this case then SHL and KHL are tier 1.

NLA is on par with Liiga.

 

[SOLR]

In this case then SHL and KHL are tier 1.

NLA is on par with Liiga.

Is it? Maybe. Not sure given the Fins out produces the Swiss by 5 to 1 at least. I know there are more internationals in NLA.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Is it? Maybe. Not sure given the Fins out produces the Swiss by 5 to 1 at least.

Finland might be the better hockey country but in terms of the leagues, it's similar quality. Switzerland brings in a lot of ex NHLers and strong european pro talent.

The Swiss teams don't do any worse than Liiga teams in Champions League and are far superior in the Spengler cup.

 

[SOLR]

Finland might be the better hockey country but in terms of the leagues, it's similar quality. Switzerland brings in a lot of ex NHLers and strong european pro talent.

The Swiss teams don't do any worse than Liiga teams in Champions League and are far superior in the Spengler cup.

The rich teams are better, not sure what that means for prospect development. Competition isn't everything. NLA is coasting on players trained elsewhere but the lack of output points to a lack of coaching talent (or maybe the NLA international players rules stifle Swiss talent)

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'd say Liiga is better than NLA at the top end, but there is overlap throughout the league. Big swiss teams can obviously attract better talent than Kouvola.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The rich teams are better, not sure what that means for prospect development. Competition isn't everything. NLA is coasting on players trained elsewhere but the lack of output points to a lack of coaching talent (or maybe the NLA international players rules stifle Swiss talent)

I'd say competition matters when you are contextualizing results.

Reinbacher wasn't dummying a bunch of tier 3 players in the NLA.. He was producing at a crazy good rate for a draft eligible in the NLA, a league where most young players don't get an opportunity to play.

I'd say that sheds a good light on his numbers vs. negating them.

Auston Matthews went to the NLA for his draft year, he wouldn't have chosen a terrible league.

 

[ReHabs]

Off the top of my head idk I'd probably call 90th percentile outcome for Smith something like an 80-85pt kind of winger, and 90th for Reinbacher a #1D on the lower end (like a top 25ish defenceman)?

In this case you take Smith and run.

You are ignoring it because you keep putting his ceiling at 2/3D when he's already been playing on the top line in a men's league. We would be picking Reinbacher because he has #1D potential and is much closer to hit his potential than the other forwards at that spot.

I never said that’s his ceiling! What a preposterous scarecrow.

In any case playing in the Swiss league and doing well is not the same as playing in the NHL, the pinnacle of hockey, and doing well. Some people just can’t make that step.

Players who did well in Finland, in a men’s league, don’t automatically thrive in the NHL either — Kotkaniemi for instance.

I think your feeling is he is a 1D in Switzerland so he is bound to (1) continue to improve and (2) become a 1D in the NHL.

It’s as if you’re neglecting the litany of possibilities between NHL-1D and Switzerland-1D.

 

[SOLR]

I'd say competition matters when you are contextualizing results.

Reinbacher wasn't dummying a bunch of tier 3 players in the NLA.. He was producing at a crazy good rate for a draft eligible in the NLA, a league where most young players don't get an opportunity to play.

I'd say that sheds a good light on his numbers vs. negating them.

Auston Matthews went to the NLA for his draft year, he wouldn't have chosen a terrible league.

It was good numbers, but going into the numbers deeply the context matters from a more pessimistic pov as well. He's remarkably hard to contextualize.

 

[Mrb1p]

The obvious ones Leonard and Benson

But if you mean players we don’t see top 10 as of now i’d say maybe Musty.

Theres no chance Leonard is a top 5 player in this draft

 

[SlafySZN]

Theres no chance Leonard is a top 5 player in this draft

Did you transform into Jojo Savard?

That’s the fun of the draft, to be honest. It can happen. Not all the players we rank 2-3-4 now will be as good as we thought and in the same order the draft happened.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I guarantee Wood has had several skating coaches since before he could tie his own skates. Just like pretty much every elite North American hockey player. Every single one of those skating coaches has tried to correct his mechanics. He can still make improvements but so will everyone else. One thing about hockey in this century is the game keeps on getting faster.


Many don't see Smith as a center at the NHL level.


It usually comes out 4-7 days before the draft.

I've seen it happen with plenty of prospects, I think you just need to know that the player will be dedicated. Point dropped so far because his skating was also mediocre, now he's one of the better skaters in the league.

Wood won't get there but he can certainly get to Mark Stone speed which should be plenty for him, he's a smart player.

 

[Habsrule]

I am a big fan of Reinbacher and would be content with the Habs taking him at #5. That is only if Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson and Michkov are all taken.

I like Smith at #5 but Reinbacher is a player you win with. He is like a Pietrangelo or an Ekblad to me. Big right handed defenceman who can log big minutes and plays against opponents top lines. He may not be the sexy high offensive upside pick like a Smith, Benson or Leonard but he is a guy that you win games with.

Imagine splitting up Reinbacher and Guhle up and they play a combined 45 minutes a game. That is not easy to play against.

 

[The Great Weal]

Is anyone else convinced we are taking Reinbacher and playing him in the NHL next year?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Is anyone else convinced we are taking Reinbacher and playing him in the NHL next year?

No. Because we're taking Dvorsky and playing him in the NHL next year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Did you transform into Jojo Savard?

That’s the fun of the draft, to be honest. It can happen. Not all the players we rank 2-3-4 now will be as good as we thought and in the same order the draft happened.

Leonard has Forsberg upside, and thats if everything goes well. Theres not a lot of draft years where that is top 5.

Is anyone else convinced we are taking Reinbacher and playing him in the NHL next year?

Lol wouldnt it be nice

 

[The Great Weal]

No. Because we're taking Dvorsky and playing him in the NHL next year.

I don't think we take Dvorsky. DRAFT BY NEED

 

[HabsForHire]

Is anyone else convinced we are taking Reinbacher and playing him in the NHL next year?

So rushing another prospect ? It's worked every other time I guess

 

[JoelWarlord]

Because Swiss leagues or Austrian Leagues are not comparable to Swede or Liga or KHL

My mental note is simple, he's not playing in a tier 1 league, he's in Europe's tier 2 (Swiss, DEL, Czech, Slovaks).

The Swiss league is arguably better than Finland. Finland is obviously the much better hockey country but the Swiss league is far more import heavy (and is also very generous with giving "domestic" status to players that play for Swiss U16 teams etc). The best Liiga teams are likely better but top to bottom the Swiss league is absolutely in the same tier with Finland at an absolute minimum.

 

[JT3]

I am a big fan of Reinbacher and would be content with the Habs taking him at #5. That is only if Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson and Michkov are all taken.

I like Smith at #5 but Reinbacher is a player you win with. He is like a Pietrangelo or an Ekblad to me. Big right handed defenceman who can log big minutes and plays against opponents top lines. He may not be the sexy high offensive upside pick like a Smith, Benson or Leonard but he is a guy that you win games with.

Imagine splitting up Reinbacher and Guhle up and they play a combined 45 minutes a game. That is not easy to play against.

This 100%.

One thing I think people tend to overlook a lot is the impact a strong defenseman like Reinbacher has on your overall offense as well. A guy like him who could play 25 strong minutes of killing plays and efficiently moving the puck back up ice to his forwards allows for more offense. Smith putting up 70-80 points helps the offense of his linemates. Reinbacher putting up 50pts and tilting the ice out of your own zone consistently helps your entire forward core create offense. And that's without even taking into account each player's defensive impact, where Reinbacher blows Smith out of the water.

I like Smith a lot, and he's probably my #6 right now after Reinbacher, but at this point I don't know if he ends up a better finished prospect offensively than Suzuki, Caufield or even Dach (people forget this guy was a #3 overall in a good draft for some reason?). And I'm not convinced whatsoever that Smith is a center in the long run either. On the other hand, I think you take Reinbacher and there's a strong, strong chance he ends up our best defenseman.

 

[Goldenhands]

Is anyone else convinced we are taking Reinbacher and playing him in the NHL next year?

Unless Carlsson drops, none are going to play NHL next year. Reinbacher will likely play a full season in the AHL if he is our pick, will follow the Seider, Jiricek path, they wont rush him. Slaf was a 1st OV and didnt look out of place at camp, was also pretty good against strong men competition in his draft year, they wanted to have him on the main to mold his game under Martin St-Louis, the farm was also devoid of talent last year, what will be different next year... I mean, who was the best center in Laval last season, Stephens?

 

[An0n]

For me, Ryan Leonard is this year’s Slafkovsky. As in a prospect I like all year long but when people start to CLEARLY overvalue them, I bail.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I would pick 2 goalie imo. At 31th pick and on the second round. There is clearly a lack of depth at that position and we need a massive hit

Hardest NO that I can possibly express lol.

Goalies are proven to be, by orders of magnitude the most difficult position to project an 18 year old boy's development. There is just no point taking random shots in the dark with premium picks when, even if you hit on them it won't likely produce a legitimate starting goaltender for 6-8 years at which point they are about to be a UFA or have already left as a UFA in many cases. Let other team's spend all of this time developing a player who is of limited use to them and then jump in and sign them when they actually prove something.

Draft them in the middle to late rounds when all positions are a shot in the dark. More starting goalies are drafted from the late second to the 7th round then are drafted in the first and early 2nd round.

You only need one starting goalie and they are easily acquired.