Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[WhatTheDuck]

I think this is just a difference of opinions. I would prefer to play it safe with him. Over cooking guys is better then undercooking and I don’t think 20 games in the AHL is asking too much.

Having that option (AHL) is a great bonus if he doesn't quite look NHL ready in camp, we can agree on that. I just (obviously) don't expect to need it.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Sounds like PV and the staff were sweating the last few days of the tank just like most fans were!

Remember how we only had five defensemen available for a game b/c we weren't carrying an extra D when one of our D got injured?

 

[robbieboy3686]

I feel compelled to jump in here. Marner and Michkov are not even on the same plane as prospects. Like marner was great. Michkov is a generational talent. He led every international tournament he finished in scoring(as an underaged player). Including the u18 wjc in which Michkov(7gp 16p) outscored Bedard(7 gp 14p). Fantilli didn't even make Canada's u18 team that year nor did Carlsson, because it is uncommon for underaged players to make that team let alone lead the entire tournament in scoring.

The one tournament these 2 players saw together, YOG u16 tournament. Michkov scored 14 points in 4 games. Fantilli scored 3 in 4.

There is nothing wrong with taking Fantilli for fit he is great player and a different position. Fantilli is not a prodigy though. Michkov is. Fantilli is not the same calibre as michkov in talent. The only advantage Fantilli has on Michkov is express 1 day delivery and size(doesn't matter)



That's the reason Fantilli will go 2nd overall. I suppose you could say a dash of Putin, but I think Putin is probably in 2nd place to the contract.

Tough spot for Anaheim truth be told. The "90% of scouts" who have Fantilli at 2, are fully aware michkov is going to be guaranteed star the day he enters the NHL at 21 years old.

If Fantilli hops in and produces at a star level within his first 3 seasons. W.

If fantilli takes 3 years to break out, but shows signs of progress. L. This situation will be rough. Because in 3 years Michkov will likely out produce fantilli the rest of his career.

Size doesn’t matter? Mute

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Scout 1: " . . . . That said, Carlsson is No. 2 for me. I think he’ll be a centre at the next level. When you compare him and Fantilli, Carlsson has superior hockey sense. Carlsson doesn’t have the same pace, he doesn’t play with the same frenetic motor, but he’s like a (Anze) Kopitar with the two-way brain, size and he’s going to make his linemates better. I think the high side is higher than with Fantilli."

Scout 2: "The top three in the draft are elite players who process the game at a high level. Bedard is obviously No. 1 but (the gap between Bedard and Carlsson) is probably closer than a lot of people may think.

Bedard has been so big in world juniors and sort of that international stage over the last couple of years where it gives him the bright lights of stardom, but Carlsson is a dynamic player in his own right and probably isn’t getting enough credit for how good he is."

Scout 3: "For me, honestly, it’s a very good debate between No. 2 and No. 3. I think Carlsson at the end of the day might be the best pick at second overall."

Scout 4: - Technically did not express an opinion.

So the 3 that expressed opinions preferred Carlsson.

Scout 3: "Fantilli has more power, more north-south in his game. His motor and work ethic is through the roof. I’d give the hockey sense edge to Carlsson, however, between those two guys. That said, like Bedard, Fantilli has had a year that speaks for itself. You can’t take away from what he did and it’s hard not to reward him with the No. 2 spot on your list. His performance has been absolutely outstanding."

As you said, scout 4 was absent.

Scout 2 had no comment at all (in the article) about Fantilli before saying good things about Carlsson.

Scout 1 Spoke quite highly of Fantilli before giving the edge to Carlsson.

So in summary 2 of the 4 did slightly prefer Carlsson, one slightly preferred Fantilli and one had no comment.

I don't think anybody has really said there is a huge gap between them. And I've always said I'd be happy with either. But everywhere I look Fantilli seems to be #2 on more lists than Carlsson. These guys said it was close but they didn't all support Carlsson.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

yeah, I don’t think I would agree with you there. I would take Marner over Terry 10/10 times. I’m sure a lot of people on here would too.

I remember Perry having the same flack at times when he wasn’t producing in some playoffs for the Ducks when he was here.

In a vacuum you can say Marner is better than Terry. But context matters. I wouldn't when factoring in contracts. He's already at $11M and has 2 years remaining. How much will he want then? Terry won't be making anywhere near that. I'll gladly take Terry and his contract as the Ducks move towards being competitive.

 

[terranraida]

It's a new day and I am still mad about chicago getting the #1OA

 

[70sSanO]

In a vacuum you can say Marner is better than Terry. But context matters. I wouldn't when factoring in contracts. He's already at $11M and has 2 years remaining. How much will he want then? Terry won't be making anywhere near that. I'll gladly take Terry and his contract as the Ducks move towards being competitive.

The other context is what you have to give up. Terry and a 1st and a conditional 1st?

Terry, a top D prospect, Mintyukov, and a first?

What if Toronto doesn’t want Terry and wants Zegras and picks?

Marner is not coming for free.

John

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

I hope Zegras can be as good as Marner one day

 

[70sSanO]

I hope Zegras can be as good as Marner one day

I’d be happy with a cup.

John

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

I’d be happy with a cup.

John

Well duh

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Scout 3: "Fantilli has more power, more north-south in his game. His motor and work ethic is through the roof. I’d give the hockey sense edge to Carlsson, however, between those two guys. That said, like Bedard, Fantilli has had a year that speaks for itself. You can’t take away from what he did and it’s hard not to reward him with the No. 2 spot on your list. His performance has been absolutely outstanding."

I agree with the Fantilli assessment except the bolded part. His offense was muted against tougher competition at the WJC, Big-10 tourney, and Frozen Four. Fantilli will feast on weaker competition, but it scares me that his explosive offense isn't reproduceable against tougher competition.

Mitch Brown's video assessment of Fantilli's D-1 season still remains spot on his strengths and weaknesses in his D+0 season. His skating is too elite that he's able to take advantage of many, but if he can't, then his read and recognition either is the wrong choice or seen too late.

Fortunately, Anaheim can compensate for Fantilli's offensive weakness as Anaheim would enjoy that tenacious bite and elite skating. Fantilli fits Verbeek's type of player. I would prefer Carlsson, but I wouldn't be upset with Fantilli since we already have Zegras, Terry, and McTavish. Someone else made a good point: they preferred Fantilli, but if you were to build a team from scratch, then the poster would choose Carlsson.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

What exactly does Carlsson do better than Fantilli other than being an inch taller ? He doesn't have the skating or shot or 2way motor of Fantilli and Fantilli seems to have the higher IQ as well from all the footage I've seen.

Turning down a prospect better than draft year Eichel for a guy who didn't even have as good of SHL numbers as Elias Lindholn seems like a bad idea.
With all the question marks if Carlsson can improve his shot and skating, let Columbus deal with that.

 

[70sSanO]

Well duh

Well it is the “only” thing that matters.

Bragging about players means nothing if they can’t win.

John

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

Well it is the “only” thing that matters.

Bragging about players means nothing if they can’t win.

John

Does this mean Marner will never be able to win or something?

 

[Emerald Duck]

Has Fantili declared that he's turning pro ? If the team is talking about starting him in AHL and earn his way to the NHL, that might be a big factor whether he stays in college or turns pro after the draft.

Fantili has options too. He can spend another year loving campus life at UoM and turn pro after next season to burn the first year of his ELC.

If Fantili is not receptive to the Ducks' approach to begin his career in the AHL, do we then move on to Carlsson instead (or even Michkov if his contract status can be understood better) ?

 

[70sSanO]

Does this mean Marner will never be able to win or something?

This is getting pretty OT for a draft thread, but I hope he does.
John

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

This is getting pretty OT for a draft thread, but I hope he does.
John

True. The convo was off topic before I chimed in, I’m just confused why me saying I hope Zegras can be as good as Marner one day has equivalence to not being a winning player is all.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

What exactly does Carlsson do better than Fantilli other than being an inch taller ? He doesn't have the skating or shot or 2way motor of Fantilli and Fantilli seems to have the higher IQ as well from all the footage I've seen.

Turning down a prospect better than draft year Eichel for a guy who didn't even have as good of SHL numbers as Elias Lindholn seems like a bad idea.

Carlsson has better offensive IQ, he's got a patient game that revolves around extending offensive possession. That offense helped to lead his team in scoring at the WJC and SHL playoffs.

Carlsson and Fantilli are different types of players, both elite in what they bring. If you want a physical, speed demon with scoring prowess, then you'll like Fantilli. Fantilli's speed and size allows him to play hero puck. If you want great puck protection and extended offensive possession, then you'll like Carlsson. Carlsson is able to excel within a team structure.

The concern I have about Fantilli is that explosive offense loses that explosive descriptor against tougher competition at the WJC, Big-10 Championship, and Frozen Four. Bedard broke the Canadian points record with his 23 points, and was a +14 rating. On the same team, Fantilli had only 5 points and a +0 rating. I do understand that Fantilli was regulated to bottom-6 duties most of the time, but Zegras put up points as fourth line center to be pushed up the lineup during his tourney.

Carlsson's problem is he's a bit top-heavy and can easily be knocked down. If he can develop tree trunks for his legs, then his skating should improve as well as become more of a heavy player (more checking, heavier checking, potential to be a little bit more physical). Also, we don't know how well he can adapt to the smaller rink.

Since Anaheim is choosing, I don't think it matters who Anaheim picks because they already have top talents on the NHL club already. Fantilli or Carlsson will be able to fit in with the current top-6 youth forwards. We're that fortunate.

 

[duckpuck]

Scout 3: "Fantilli has more power, more north-south in his game. His motor and work ethic is through the roof. I’d give the hockey sense edge to Carlsson, however, between those two guys. That said, like Bedard, Fantilli has had a year that speaks for itself. You can’t take away from what he did and it’s hard not to reward him with the No. 2 spot on your list. His performance has been absolutely outstanding."

As you said, scout 4 was absent.

Scout 2 had no comment at all (in the article) about Fantilli before saying good things about Carlsson.

Scout 1 Spoke quite highly of Fantilli before giving the edge to Carlsson.

So in summary 2 of the 4 did slightly prefer Carlsson, one slightly preferred Fantilli and one had no comment.

I don't think anybody has really said there is a huge gap between them. And I've always said I'd be happy with either. But everywhere I look Fantilli seems to be #2 on more lists than Carlsson. These guys said it was close but they didn't all support Carlsson.

Its odd you would nitpick my post and then completely misconstrue the larger point. I was pointing out that there was not a universal consensus on Fantilli vs. Carlsson. People in this thread seem to be missing that, though you seem to agree that there is not universal consensus.

And for the record:

1. Scout 2 didn't comment on Fantilli because the question is who he preferred. The scout unequivocally preferred Carlsson. The fact that he didn't mention Fantilli reinforces that (and seems irrelevant).

2. Similarly, my interpretation of Scout 3's comments is that he prefers Carlsson as a long term prospect but that it is hard not to reward Fantilli with the no. 2 spot on the article author's list - not necessarily the scout's.

His exact words: "For me, honestly, it’s a very good debate between No. 2 and No. 3. I think Carlsson at the end of the day might be the best pick at second overall. I love Carlsson and I don’t think you’re seeing everything that he can do just yet. Down the road he may be the second best player in this class, heck, he could be the best player in this class down the road — I don’t know. When you get a 6-foot-3 player with his size and skill, that’s very hard to find."

 

[70sSanO]

True. The convo was off topic before I chimed in, I’m just confused why me saying I hope Zegras can be as good as Marner one day has equivalence to not being a winning player is all.

Sorry. I read it as only wishful thinking that Zegras can be as good.

He may not be, but it doesn’t matter to me. It only comes down to how well the team does.

John

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

Sorry. I read it as only wishful thinking that Zegras can be as good.

He may not be, but it doesn’t matter to me. It only comes down to how well the team does.

John

Agree! It’s not easy to be as good as Marner, so in a way it is wishful. I’d like to see him away from Toronto.

I’m hopeful Z has chemistry with Fantilli immediately, it seems like a match made in heaven to me.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Its odd you would nitpick my post and then completely misconstrue the larger point. I was pointing out that there was not a universal consensus on Fantilli vs. Carlsson. People in this thread seem to be missing that, though you seem to agree that there is not universal consensus.

And for the record:

1. Scout 2 didn't comment on Fantilli because the question is who he preferred. The scout unequivocally preferred Carlsson. The fact that he didn't mention Fantilli reinforces that (and seems irrelevant).

2. Similarly, my interpretation of Scout 3's comments is that he prefers Carlsson as a long term prospect but that it is hard not to reward Fantilli with the no. 2 spot on the article author's list - not necessarily the scout's.

His exact words: "For me, honestly, it’s a very good debate between No. 2 and No. 3. I think Carlsson at the end of the day might be the best pick at second overall. I love Carlsson and I don’t think you’re seeing everything that he can do just yet. Down the road he may be the second best player in this class, heck, he could be the best player in this class down the road — I don’t know. When you get a 6-foot-3 player with his size and skill, that’s very hard to find."

Well, you said all four scouts agreed Carlsson was the better pick at 2, which they didn't. Only 2 did. That's kind of a large misstatement. That's really the only point I was trying to make.

I don't think anybody has ever said Carlsson doesn't have his supporters, certainly I haven't. Anecdotally I seem to see many more "experts" place Fantilli higher. But yes, I've seen both picked at #2 in different reads. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ADHB]

Fantilli is ranked #2 on literally every list but one (out of 15 or so) referenced on EliteProspects, including Bob McKenzie’s list, which is nothing but aan aggregate ranking of scouts he’s spoken to.

I fail to see how one article, that is clearly cherry picking a few scouts who prefer someone else, means anything.

Carlsson is a great talent, and I’m sure there is a minority of the scouting world that sees him above Fantilli. But from the information available to us, that’s all it is, a minority.

 

[Ducks in a row]

It's a new day and I am still mad about chicago getting the #1OA

Ducks finish last for 1st time ever and had to hear so many Ducks fans happy about it and the end result is Chicago getting 1st overall

If things had went how I wanted with Ducks winning our last game of the season to avoid finishing dead last we would be drafting 1st overall (assuming no lottery rigging going on)

I am probably the most miserable Ducks fan

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

Ducks finish last for 1st time ever and had to hear so many Ducks fans happy about it and the end result is Chicago getting 1st overall

If things had went how I wanted with Ducks winning our last game of the season to avoid finishing dead last we would be drafting 1st overall (assuming no lottery rigging going on)

I am probably the most miserable Ducks fan

Gotta take you chances. It was about potentially falling to 3 instead of 5. Just how the random chance went that day, you don’t really wanna play with the odds. (Jk it’s rigged)