Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[70sSanO]

Getzlaf doesn't possess high level skating, but his high level IQ didn't prevent him from succeeding in the NHL.

I can’t pass up this statement without thinking of all those no look passes that never connected, or connected to the opposition.

I’m not saying Getz wasn’t a smart player, but some of his passes certainly weren’t.

John

 

[duckpuck]

Counter

Motor =/= skating ability and physicality. Carlsson is ranked in the top-3 for a reason and having a high motor helps propel a player to that status. It's disingenuous to say Carlsson doesn't have equal motor to Fantilli. Getzlaf doesn't possess high level skating, but his high level IQ didn't prevent him from succeeding in the NHL. It must be nice having a high level IQ to fall back upon.

Carlsson was highly productive without elite speed and constant highlight reel hits against men in the SHL. He took it to another level in the SHL playoffs. He showed it off again against men at the WC as a 1C and didn't look out of place. Despite Fantilli having far more scoring chances at the WC, Carlsson was the one who potted more points in fewer games played.

Fantilli lacks pacing skills and playmaking skills, or are you re-categorizing what a skill should and shoudn't be? He plays at only one speed, Ludicrous speed, and his teammates can't keep up with him. If Fantilli is playing hero puck all the time, then how does he develop the skill to utilize his teammates? Maybe if he slows down, then he could also be a bit more accurate with his shot.

Many scouts believe Fantilli will grow out of hero puck play. I think so too, but how much? Fantilli's speed, physicality, and puck hound tenacity (due to his speed) are elements the Ducks can use in their top-6. We already have a player like Carlsson on the team in McTavish. If Fantilli's skills/hockey sense doesn't translate to the NHL very well, then it's okay b/c Anaheim already has highly skilled players in pace and playmaking in Zegras and McTavish.

I'm happy with either player, but I'm still pissed off that we missed out on Bedard b/c this is the second time the Ducks have missed out on a generational player. The chances those players become available in the draft when the Ducks suck terribly doesn't happen very often.

Getz was drafted in 2003 and played most of his career in a much slower paced league where size was at a premium. If young getz was starting his career now, his skating would have been a much bigger issue - as it was at the tale of his career. Yes - he would have fallen back on his other skills. But skating and skills are much more important today then in 2003 and the 10-15 years thereafter.

The converse is true as well - guys like Zegras, Caufield, Debrincat, and Gaudreau would likely have not had the success they're having in the NHL today 10+ years ago that. Its just a different game.

Carlsson is a fine player. But if two players are close, I'm taking the guy who is the elite skater and brings more physicality to boot.

Its interesting you seem to feel Fantilli will have a harder time slowing down than Carlsson will have adjusting to his lack of skating (or speeking up). I think it is much easier to slow down then improve your skating.

 

[91Fedorov]

Are you completely omitting that Fantilli had far more scoring chances than Carlsson at the WC and wasn't able to finish? Yes, yes you did.

Fantilli's motor is visual such as skating and being tenaciously physical. Carlsson's motor is cerebral such as game manipulation and anticipation.

You changed skill to ability for your own convenience. For Fantilli, it's skating skill and puck handling skill. For Carlsson, it's playmaking ability. I think you're just biased with "individual skill" over "team skill". Fantilli is lacking playmaking skills and will need to improve that skill. If it isn't a skill, then Fantilli's has a lower chance of improving an elite playmaking ability just like Carlsson will never have that elite skating ability.

There are differences between Fantilli and Carlsson. Both are high level players, but built differently. You don't think they are and that's your hang up.

I see your points on Carlsson. I do think he will be very good. I started out Team Carlsson. But can we agree that PV most likely loves what Fantilli brings? He seems like a player he would love to add. I think he's our guy for that reason. Do you disagree on that?

I think worst case scenario, we get a higher ppg version of Kesler, which I wouldn't hate! Even if Carlsson is better, I wouldn't be mad.

 

[Kalv]

Reading EP draft guide and there's a lot of information there Halfway-through Fantilli profile and yeah, his decisionmaking is in question a lot of times. But scouts still love him. It just seems he will require a good amount of development, even if he's physically ready.

I will read up more on Carlsson as well in near future but I just don't see how Verbeek picks anyone else than Fantilli. Even hiring Cronen to me feels like a great decision to develop Fantilli – who has all the tools and work ethic but needs to play a team game better.

 

[GermanRocket7]

Reading EP draft guide and there's a lot of information there Halfway-through Fantilli profile and yeah, his decisionmaking is in question a lot of times. But scouts still love him. It just seems he will require a good amount of development, even if he's physically ready.

I will read up more on Carlsson as well in near future but I just don't see how Verbeek picks anyone else than Fantilli. Even hiring Cronen to me feels like a great decision to develop Fantilli – who has all the tools and work ethic but needs to play a team game better.

I also caved in and bought Premium. Fantilli's hardest "knock" in the ten-page report is that he seems to be too frantic some times and doesn't utilize his brains enough on a x/60-basis. However, the scouts are raving about his toolset and also about his hockey senses. This has, however, been clearly identified as a coachable concern. He has been named top-5 in the following categories:

Power Forward (1st)
Shot (2nd)
Highest ceiling (2nd)
Offensive forward (3rd)
Transition forward (3rd)
Two-way forward (3rd)
Highest floor (3rd)
Straight-line skater (5th).

Only Bedard has more than eight categories within the top-5 at 10, and Carlsson is next at 6 categories in the top-5.

One scout quoted even mentioned that "Fantilli is closer to Bedard than Carlsson or Michkov are to Fantilli". He is the absolute no-brainer, and I'd be up on the pitchforks if we passed him on at the Draft.

 

[Kalv]

I also caved in and bought Premium. Fantilli's hardest "knock" in the ten-page report is that he seems to be too frantic some times and doesn't utilize his brains enough on a x/60-basis. However, the scouts are raving about his toolset and also about his hockey senses. This has, however, been clearly identified as a coachable concern. He has been named top-5 in the following categories:

Power Forward (1st)
Shot (2nd)
Highest ceiling (2nd)
Offensive forward (3rd)
Transition forward (3rd)
Two-way forward (3rd)
Highest floor (3rd)
Straight-line skater (5th).

Only Bedard has more than eight categories within the top-5 at 10, and Carlsson is next at 6 categories in the top-5.

One scout quoted even mentioned that "Fantilli is closer to Bedard than Carlsson or Michkov are to Fantilli". He is the absolute no-brainer, and I'd be up on the pitchforks if we passed him on at the Draft.

Yeah. Despite the flaws everyone there seems to be raving about him. But yeah, it seems he might not be as ready as we thought. But yeah, he is my clear favorite with our pick.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I see your points on Carlsson. I do think he will be very good. I started out Team Carlsson. But can we agree that PV most likely loves what Fantilli brings? He seems like a player he would love to add. I think he's our guy for that reason. Do you disagree on that?

I think worst case scenario, we get a higher ppg version of Kesler, which I wouldn't hate! Even if Carlsson is better, I wouldn't be mad.

I'll say it once again that I've always stated since we landed the #2 pick, "I prefer Carlsson, but Fantilli fits the vision PV wants."

I prefer higher IQ players because that trait translates more often to the NHL than not. Do I dislike Fantilli? No. In fact, I've stated how he's a better complement to McTavish, Terry, and Zegras because Fantilli brings a few elements that that we're missing in our top-6. Even if Fantilli doesn't reach his ceiling, his talent is still that good to take at #2. The fact we have McTavish, Terry, and Zegras already helps to mitigate if Fantilli doesn't reach that high ceiling.

I'm seeing this in a vacuum (preference to Carlsson) and in context (preference for Fantilli). Since we have a player like Carlsson on the team in McTavish, Fantilli makes more sense. I've stated this often. Pointing out flaws doesn't mean I am against Fantilli, but some posters think it means I'm against Fantilli. The white knighting of Fantilli would make many believe that Fantilli should be #1 overall AINEC.

 

[tomd]

I think it is very very close between Fantilli and Carlsson and I waiver from day to day. Having said that, I believe there are people (not necessarily in this forum) who are maximizing Fantilli's perceived weaknesses and minimizing Carlsson's.

 

[ducks8]

I prefer Fantilli just simply due to the fact that the Ducks don't really have anyone like him. But realistically, the Ducks can't go wrong with either pick. Both have different strengths and weakness. In my opinion, what Fantilli lacks, Carlsson has and what Carlson lacks, Fantilli has. Either choice, can't go wrong.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I prefer Fantilli just simply due to the fact that the Ducks don't really have anyone like him. But realistically, the Ducks can't go wrong with either pick. Both have different strengths and weakness. In my opinion, what Fantilli lacks, Carlsson has and what Carlson lacks, Fantilli has. Either choice, can't go wrong.

While don't disagree that we have no one like Fantilli, I would argue we don't have anyone like Carlsson either.

I am glad that it seems that PV and the scouts have made up their mind. All I am hoping on is that they have strong conviction and are not flipping a a coin. I think it will be Fantilli, but won't be disappointed in either. Heck, I would even be ok if they took Michov.

 

[ADHB]

While don't disagree that we have no one like Fantilli, I would argue we don't have anyone like Carlsson either.

I am glad that it seems that PV and the scouts have made up their mind. All I am hoping on is that they have strong conviction and are not flipping a a coin. I think it will be Fantilli, but won't be disappointed in either. Heck, I would even be ok if they took Michov.

They’re not taking Michkov. Verbeek is on record saying that we’ll be adding size with this pick.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I am genuinely curious to see how Bedard's skating allows him to translate his otherwise incredible set of skills. It needs to improve to some extent for him to really dominate imo. Right now i don't think he's anywhere near the type of skater Crosby was.

 

[nbducksfan19]

They’re not taking Michkov. Verbeek is on record saying that we’ll be adding size with this pick.

I never said I thought they might take him, just that I would not be made if he was the pick (based on how I view the prospect).

 

[ohcomeonref]

I am genuinely curious to see how Bedard's skating allows him to translate his otherwise incredible set of skills. It needs to improve to some extent for him to really dominate imo. Right now i don't think he's anywhere near the type of skater Crosby was.

The dude is also tiny, he will have to be an incredibly elusive skater to not get pancaked every other shift.

 

[nbducksfan19]

They’re not taking Michkov. Verbeek is on record saying that we’ll be adding size with this pick.

Also, can you share where he said this. Not that I don't believe you, I am just interested to read/see the full piece.

 

[ADHB]

Also, can you share where he said this. Not that I don't believe you, I am just interested to read/see the full piece.

I don’t have a link, but it was in one of the interviews with Alexis Downie right after the draft lottery.

 

[Deuce22]

They’re not taking Michkov. Verbeek is on record saying that we’ll be adding size with this pick.

Then I guess he wouldn't have drafted Bedard if we were at #1. I don't think we are taking Michkov either, but I think you (and others) are highly overrating the size thing.

 

[ADHB]

Then I guess he wouldn't have drafted Bedard if we were at #1. I don't think we are taking Michkov either, but I think you (and others) are highly overrating the size thing.

The answer came after we fell to 2. Clearly he would have taken Bedard at 1.

 

[Deuce22]

The answer came after we fell to 2. Clearly he would have taken Bedard at 1.

Of course. But that negates the size argument. Let me propose that if Michkov was playing juniors in Canada instead of in the KHL, the discussion would be much different.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

The dude is also tiny, he will have to be an incredibly elusive skater to not get pancaked every other shift.

So in a matchup of Fantilli vs Bedard in Anaheim vs Chicago, Fantilli got the speed to catch up and crush Bedard into the boards.

 

[ADHB]

Of course. But that negates the size argument. Let me propose that if Michkov was playing juniors in Canada instead of in the KHL, the discussion would be much different.

Agreed, just stating what Verbeek was on record as saying. And I wasn't saying that he is all about size, simply that his comment indicated Fantilli or Carlsson would be the pick, and not Michkov (or Smith for that matter) with Bedard not available.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I don’t have a link, but it was in one of the interviews with Alexis Downie right after the draft lottery.

Oh I know the quote you are referring to, and he did agree that big centers are important, but he absolutely did not guarantee we are taking size with #2 pick.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Could Columbus go Michkov at #3 ? Maybe Provorov is a friend of his.
Worst case scenario: Ducks go Carlsson, Columbus goes Michkov then SJ ends up with Fantilli and that will haunt the Ducks because given our luck he turns into Mackinnon 2.0 in SJ and the Sharks instantly become a speedy team with Fantilli, Eklund and Bordeleau. Meanwhile the Ducks would have no speedy top6 forwards and be more of the same trying to slow the game down like Getzlaf era while SJ becomes a modern style NHL team.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Could Columbus go Michkov at #3 ? Maybe Provorov is a friend of his.
Worst case scenario: Ducks go Carlsson, Columbus goes Michkov then SJ ends up with Fantilli and that will haunt the Ducks because given our luck he turns into Mackinnon 2.0 in SJ and the Sharks instantly become a speedy team with Fantilli, Eklund and Bordeleau. Meanwhile the Ducks would have no speedy top6 forwards and be more of the same trying to slow the game down like Getzlaf era while SJ becomes a modern style NHL team.

I believe multiple front office personnel have explicitly said they will be getting a avenger at 3.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

The dude is also tiny, he will have to be an incredibly elusive skater to not get pancaked every other shift.

This is one of my reservations about Bedard that I am really pressed to say 'out loud'.

I get that he is an offensive phenom.. but I can't help but look at the size issue.