Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[duckpuck]

I think the checking boxes discussion is a bit misleading. I think you also want to consider whether a player has a skill that is elite - one that will give him an advantage in the NHL

An example is kaliyev. Pretty widely regarded as a flawed prospect (skating and compete issues) with an elite shot. Frustratingly, the Ducks passed on him and took Tracey (a guy who checked a lot more boxes) including so called "intangibles" or hockey sense. How did that work out? Kaliyev's elite shot put him on the fast track to the NHL - because it created a clear role for the guy notwithstanding other potential issues (some of which can be coached up to some extent). Meanwhile Tracey is in the AHL being average (or may slightly above average) at a lot of things.

Picking second, the ducks have a lot of good choices and we are somewhat splitting hairs. I'm not a scout, but I like Fantilli's size and skating which will play well in the NHL and the fact that he's a bit more likely to stay at center. Obviously, both players have been highly productive and are elite in some respects.

 

[ohcomeonref]

I don’t mean to say that Fantilli does not “check boxes” that Carlsson does not, he must definitely does. But, that ignores the fact that Carlsson checks boxes Fantilli does not: elite playmaking ability, ability to slow the game down and use teammates effectively, oh and he’s 6’ 3”. Did I miss something or do we already have a Kopitar/Barkov I’m our top 6?

Also, while these 2 may be talked about in the media as somewhat interchangeable, I imagine most teams/scouts will have a higher projection on one than the other. In this scenario you absolutely go for the guy you project higher, even marginally, rather than “checking boxes”.

Fantilli is 6'2 so their size is kind-of a wash but who cares about the size if you don't make use of it? Carlsson protects the puck with his body but doesn't use his size to his advantage the way Fantilli does. I want those punishing hits out of our bigger players.

As for your comment about having a Kopitar/Barkov in our top 6... We don't have a MacKinnon either. And I'd much rather have a MacKinnon.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Fantilli is 6'2 so their size is kind-of a wash but who cares about the size if you don't make use of it? Carlsson protects the puck with his body but doesn't use his size to his advantage the way Fantilli does. I want those punishing hits out of our bigger players.

As for your comment about having a Kopitar/Barkov in our top 6... We don't have a MacKinnon either. And I'd much rather have a MacKinnon.

I’m not saying you are wrong. The only reason I slightly prefer Carlsson is because I think his probability of being a franchise player is marginally higher because IMO the type of elite IQ/vision/anticipation he has had a very high likelihood of translating to high level NHL success.

 

[Gliff]

Are we actually talking shit on Kopitar?
He would be a top 5 forward in Ducks history.

 

[Kalv]

Are we actually talking shit on Kopitar?
He would be a top 5 forward in Ducks history.

He's ok, but he's no Derek Grant

PS
I think this convo shows how frustrating is offseason I think we're way too often just misunderstaning each other.

 

[ScarTroy]

I take Kopitar in his prime over like 90% of the centers in the league. With that said I don’t buy Carlsson having near the defensive prowess in his own zone to warrant that comparison anyways.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

MacKinnon >>> Kopitar

 

[nbducksfan19]

I take Kopitar in his prime over like 90% of the centers in the league. With that said I don’t buy Carlsson having near the defensive prowess in his own zone to warrant that comparison anyways.

I agree that he may not be as good defensively, but I think he has higher offensive potential.

 

[nbducksfan19]

MacKinnon >>> Kopitar

That may be true. But imo Carlsson has a higher probability to hit Kopitar/Barkov then Fantilli does of hitting Mackinnon.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I can agree with this distinction. I think the boxes Fantilli checks are better for our team than the boxes Carlson checks.

This is why I've always stated, "I prefer Carlsson, but Fantilli fits Verbeek's vision more."

Anaheim already possesses two centers who understand pace and team play in Zegras and McTavish. If Fantilli's team play doesn't pan out, then he'd still be great on the wings because we can use that speed, physicality, puck houndedness (made up the word?), and tenacity.

Is Fantilli better for our team? I dunno. We'll have to revisit this in three to five years.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Fantilli is 6'2 so their size is kind-of a wash but who cares about the size if you don't make use of it? Carlsson protects the puck with his body but doesn't use his size to his advantage the way Fantilli does. I want those punishing hits out of our bigger players.

As for your comment about having a Kopitar/Barkov in our top 6... We don't have a MacKinnon either. And I'd much rather have a MacKinnon.

Although I love me highlight, big hits, I'm okay with someone who can neutralize a player and do a little more. For example, Manson is the one that delivers the big hits, but Lindholm physical play isn't on the same display, but his game tilts the ice much more than Manson.

It's just preference of what type of forward you want as we have a choice between two different types that are both great options. The best part about Verbeek going to Europe is he's lowkey narrowed the choices down between Carlsson and Fantilli, which removes Smith from the conversation.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

That may be true. But imo Carlsson has a higher probability to hit Kopitar/Barkov then Fantilli does of hitting Mackinnon.

Ok.

 

[Leonardo87]

This is why I've always stated, "I prefer Carlsson, but Fantilli fits Verbeek's vision more."

Anaheim already possesses two centers who understand pace and team play in Zegras and McTavish. If Fantilli's team play doesn't pan out, then he'd still be great on the wings because we can use that speed, physicality, puck houndedness (made up the word?), and tenacity.

Is Fantilli better for our team? I dunno. We'll have to revisit this in three to five years.

I think both players will help this team a lot, but I’ve sorta leaning back towards Carlsson. I think he is the safer bet, and think he has the higher ceiling offensively, if that makes sense.

I still like Fantilli’s drive, speed, and physicality. Which is something the Ducks need.

Really can’t wait till Jun 28th to get here. Lol

 

[ohcomeonref]

Although I love me highlight, big hits, I'm okay with someone who can neutralize a player and do a little more. For example, Manson is the one that delivers the big hits, but Lindholm physical play isn't on the same display, but his game tilts the ice much more than Manson.

It's just preference of what type of forward you want as we have a choice between two different types that are both great options. The best part about Verbeek going to Europe is he's lowkey narrowed the choices down between Carlsson and Fantilli, which removes Smith from the conversation.

Lindholm wasn't throwing big hits but was/is low-key MEAN, constant crosschecks and whatnot. He punished in different ways. Miss that guy.

Edit: it's SUCH a Ducks thing to end up with the second pick, the 1st and 3rd picks are borderline no-brainers but the 2nd pick could end up being embarrassing lol

 

[70sSanO]

I think both players will help this team a lot, but I’ve sorta leaning back towards Carlsson. I think he is the safer bet, and think he has the higher ceiling offensively, if that makes sense.

I still like Fantilli’s drive, speed, and physicality. Which is something the Ducks need.

Really can’t wait till Jun 28th to get here. Lol

I agree Carlsson is the safe pick, but Fantilli-Zegras might be borderline chaos… maybe for both the Ducks and the opposing team.

I say roll the dice.

John

 

[Rasp]

Fantilli isn't going to bust. It's crazy that people think he will

 

[nbducksfan19]

Fantilli isn't going to bust. It's crazy that people think he will

What’s your definition of bust?

 

[DavidBL]

Fantilli isn't going to bust. It's crazy that people think he will

That was probably said about Byfield too. No one expects top picks to bust.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I think both players will help this team a lot, but I’ve sorta leaning back towards Carlsson. I think he is the safer bet, and think he has the higher ceiling offensively, if that makes sense.

I still like Fantilli’s drive, speed, and physicality. Which is something the Ducks need.

Really can’t wait till Jun 28th to get here. Lol

I understand what you mean when you believe that Carlsson has the higher offensive ceiling, which is why I said I prefer Carlsson. One aspect that Carlsson doesn't get credit for is that he goes to the net and parks there too. He was doing that at the WC. Carlsson doesn't need a strong shot in front of the net, he needs great hands when parked in front of the net - which he has. Another aspect of offense that favors Carlsson is that he can get passes to players due to great anticipation and touch, whereas Fantilli makes passes into space for teammates to collect. I'm not sure if passing into space will work often in the NHL.

Here's Fantilli's WJC 2023 highlights by bigwhite06


Where have you heard this before, "Fantilli has so many scoring chances, but just unlucky." We heard this at the recent WC. Still, Fantilli bring so many other elements that's great for the team. Yet, that scout saying that Fantilli's NCAA production was a due to his compete level than skill. That speed, though... it's a killer!

If there was just some way to get a blend of Fantilli (physical, tenacious, high motor) with Carlsson (high IQ, great passing, goes to the net), but someone who can actually put the puck into the back of the net? Let me share with you another bigwhite06 highlight production:



I don't think many believe just how special McTavish is. That video is his WJC-18 showing. He scored even more at his WJC-20, winning tourney MVP.

McTavish doesn't have the wheels of Fantilli, but he's got that high level IQ. Carlsson doesn't have the wheels or physicality of Fantilli, but he's got that higher offensive level IQ. I think Carlsson can evolve to add some physicality to his game, but it's kinda difficult to be doing it as a 17-year old against men... yet, he's scoring a lot for a 17-year old against men. Look at what Carlsson did in the SHL playoffs!

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Going back a bit.. I see the discussion on MacKinnon v Kopitar v Barkov.

such a hard thing to debate about because it’s a matter of personal preference.

 

[Rasp]

What’s your definition of bust?

Anything less than a second line player would be a bust but he will be a first line star.

That was probably said about Byfield too. No one expects top picks to bust.

Byfield got selected based mainly on his size and raw potential. Fantilli has a cupboard full of silverware to back up his ability.


Fantilli was the best skater on the ice basically everytime he was on it and not just fastest. All of the little things he does such as follow through with hits, puck battles and causing opposition headaches without the puck stand out to me as a player who is going to make it in the NHL.

I remember a moment where he was 1v2 behind the net against the wall and wins the puck battle with a nice pass to the danger spot in front of goal. Another time he was 1v5 and kept possession of the puck in the offensive zone while his team changed. And let's not forget this moment:


Fantilli will be a star.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Both Carlsson and Fantilli are gonna be 1Cs to me. It's a matter of do you want the guy who has better playmaking, passing and is more disciplined or the guy who has speed, hard shot, 2way play, non stop motor/compete and physicality.

I think their ceilings are about the same and they got high floors.

 

[GermanRocket7]

Just as a reference: one of the German national team players I met last week when they came back from the tournament said that Fantilli was the toughest player to contain in the final, even though Blais scored two goals.

 

[DavidBL]

Anything less than a second line player would be a bust but he will be a first line star.

Byfield got selected based mainly on his size and raw potential. Fantilli has a cupboard full of silverware to back up his ability.


Fantilli was the best skater on the ice basically everytime he was on it and not just fastest. All of the little things he does such as follow through with hits, puck battles and causing opposition headaches without the puck stand out to me as a player who is going to make it in the NHL.

I remember a moment where he was 1v2 behind the net against the wall and wins the puck battle with a nice pass to the danger spot in front of goal. Another time he was 1v5 and kept possession of the puck in the offensive zone while his team changed. And let's not forget this moment:


Fantilli will be a star.

I wasn't trying to compare them specifically. Just pointing out that top picks do bust all the time. We should assume who ever we pick can't. Likely maybe not but there is always a possibility.

 

[Kalv]

Wooohooo EliteProspects Draft Guide is out, I suggest you go get it. Starting to read now but they also have Fanta at #2