Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[tomd]

I hear where you are coming from. I am not saying size is useless. I am saying people use size to reach on prospects while superior Hockey players exist. You should not draft talent in the first round with "they are tall" as one of their main pros. IQ, physical skills, play style, motor. I am not going to argue about size. By all means draft 6'3" and above only and let me know how it works out.

I am not comparing him to stutzle. I would not comp Michkov to anyone. Michkov and Bedard are freaks. I am not sure any comp would do them justice. What I was saying is as a prospect Michkov is head and shoulders better than stutzle. If you would prefer I say he is head shoulder superior to another undersized top level talent, Michkov is head shoulders better as prospect than Jack Hughes. Better? Not even competitive too. Freaks. That is the only way you can describe Michkov and Bedard. The talent they have is almost unnatural, but at the same time looks incredibly natural

Definitely appreciate your passion regarding Michkov but it is misplaced on the Ducks board. PV pretty much went on record after the lottery saying that one of the two big centers would be the Ducks pick. Fantilli or Carlsson although he didn't name names. Michkov will likely be a great player somewhere but it won't be in Anaheim.

 

[All Mighty]

Here are the group stage schedules for Fantilli (Canada) and Carlsson (Sweden) at the IIHF World Championships:

May 12 - Sweden vs. Germany @ 10am PDT
May 12 - Canada vs. Latvia @ 10am PDT
May 14 - Canada vs. Slovenia @ 3am PDT
May 14 - Sweden vs. Austria @ 10am PDT
May 15 - Canada vs. Slovakia @ 6am PDT
May 15 - Sweden vs. Finland @ 10am PDT
May 17 - Canada vs. Kazakhstan @ 10am PDT
May 18 - Sweden vs. Hungary @ 6am PDT
May 20 - Canada vs. Switzerland @ 6am PDT
May 20 - Sweden vs. France @ 10am PDT
May 22 - Sweden vs. Denmark @ 6am PDT
May 22 - Canada vs. Norway @ 6am PDT
May 23 - Sweden vs. USA @ 6am PDT
May 23 - Canada vs. Czechia @ 6am PDT

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Yeah this is the big thing that keeps me from being 100% all in on Fantilli. There's just so many factors that might influence how Carlsson builds on where he's already at. Some guys like, let's just use an example in Lafreniere, or Griffin Reinhart, are already so advanced relative to their peers that they look really promising but when it comes time to adapt multiple elements of their game to higher level NHL play, they don't develop like other top picks.

Carlsson gets points in his favor because he's already adapted his tools and talent to play well against adults, and like you said, he has the trust of national team coaches for a pretty prominent hockey nation. But if the question comes down to is he going to be a solid 70 point two way 2C or a transcendent first liner who can tilt the game with his intelligence and decision making, you'd want to see more than most of us are able to; how adaptable he is long term and short term. If a deficiency in his game results in a f*** up, how quickly does he clean it up? What does he do to clean it up? I'm no pro but I imagine pro scouts need to look at these nuanced details closely beyond just highlighting the good and bad things a guy does in any given game.

Carlsson's playoff performance doesn't get a lot of attention. In 13 playoff games, he scored 9 points. Leo was first in assists with 8, second on the team in points with 9, and second on the team in plus/minus with +8. He turned up his play and tilted the ice in the playoffs. His team lost to the #2 team in the league.

 

[70sSanO]

I don’t know enough about Carlsson,but it seems that Fantilli plays with an edge, has a high level of compete, and will work on areas to improve.

On our current team, I’ll take that over a slightly better cerebral playmaker that is considered to be soft.

If we a building a team we need one that can compete in the playoffs.
John

 

[gunnergunther]

Carlsson isn’t soft. Just because he’s not taking runs at guys as an 18 year old in a men’s league doesn’t make him soft.

 

[70sSanO]

Carlsson isn’t soft. Just because he’s not taking runs at guys as an 18 year old in a men’s league doesn’t make him soft.

True. Do have an idea at what age you think he will?

Last time I looked the NHL was kind of a men’s league.

John

 

[Emerald Duck]

Just for discussions sake ...

IF the scouts decide Carlsson better fits our system, do you trade with Columbus, assuming Columbus really wants Fantilli ?

2OA for 3OA+ ...

There's no way Jiricek or Marchenko would be available. Is there another package of pick(s) or a prospect that would make sense for us to drop one spot and get the prospect we prefer ?

 

[tomd]

Just for discussions sake ...

IF the scouts decide Carlsson better fits our system, do you trade with Columbus, assuming Columbus really wants Fantilli ?

2OA for 3OA+ ...

There's no way Jiricek or Marchenko would be available. Is there another package of pick(s) or a prospect that would make sense for us to drop one spot and get the prospect we prefer ?

If I were the Columbus GM the first thing I would think is that Anaheim wants to take Carlsson. So I'd basically say enjoy your pick and we (Columbus) will take whoever you don't. I wouldn't give Anaheim anything and just dare them to take Carlsson.

 

[HanSolo]

My definition of being soft means a guy that shys away from contact. It doesn't mean a guy unwilling to throw the body. There's plenty of footage of Carlsson bulling past defenders and using his size to shield the puck. I wouldn't call him soft.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

 

[robbieboy3686]

I don’t know enough about Carlsson,but it seems that Fantilli plays with an edge, has a high level of compete, and will work on areas to improve.

On our current team, I’ll take that over a slightly better cerebral playmaker that is considered to be soft.

If we a building a team we need one that can compete in the playoffs.
John

Huge +1 and so will gm PV I’ll bet my existence around here on it. If the ducks chose anyone but fantilli I retire from these boards( I also correctly had us picking Big Mac weeks ahead of that draft ) this time I’m even more confident

 

[Rooch]

It's late and I'm tired but I just had this vision:

Terry-Fantilli-Zegras

I'd (potenitally) put that line in upper echelon of Ducks history, right next to Kariya-Rucchin-Selanne and Perry-Getzlaf-Selanne.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

My definition of being soft means a guy that shys away from contact. It doesn't mean a guy unwilling to throw the body. There's plenty of footage of Carlsson bulling past defenders and using his size to shield the puck. I wouldn't call him soft.

Fans think you're either physical or you're soft and only those two extremes exists. There's no in between. You're either a Manson type or you're soft. Lindholm is a physical player who tilts the ice often, but he doesn't have the bone-jarring highlight hits that Manson possesses.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

It's late and I'm tired but I just had this vision:

Terry-Fantilli-Zegras

I'd (potenitally) put that line in upper echelon of Ducks history, right next to Kariya-Rucchin-Selanne and Perry-Getzlaf-Selanne.

Yes, it's late and you're tired.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I hear where you are coming from. I am not saying size is useless. I am saying people use size to reach on prospects while superior Hockey players exist. You should not draft talent in the first round with "they are tall" as one of their main pros. IQ, physical skills, play style, motor. I am not going to argue about size. By all means draft 6'3" and above only and let me know how it works out.

I am not comparing him to stutzle. I would not comp Michkov to anyone. Michkov and Bedard are freaks. I am not sure any comp would do them justice. What I was saying is as a prospect Michkov is head and shoulders better than stutzle. If you would prefer I say he is head shoulder superior to another undersized top level talent, Michkov is head shoulders better as prospect than Jack Hughes. Better? Not even competitive too. Freaks. That is the only way you can describe Michkov and Bedard. The talent they have is almost unnatural, but at the same time looks incredibly natural

I mean, you literally said it doesn’t matter. And don’t get me started on the myth that teams reach because of height. Good god you’ve gotta have no self awareness to lean into that one.

I also didn’t say you were comparing Michkov and Stutzle as prospects, but you seemed to be making some kind of comparison and I don’t know why given Stutzle isn’t small. Why bring him up at all? It’s weird.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

The thing about hockey sense IQ being said about fantilli and Carlsson is that all 3 of Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson have a very high or better hockey sense/IQ it's just that some say one player having more compared to the other.

It's a loaded draft class on par with 2003 and 2015.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I find it more surprising that will all the doubt of Michkov and the possibility of when he comes over, he would still be selected second overall by some people

 

[Leonardo87]

Here is another 64k dollar question for you guys. You think there is any chance a player like Fantilli/Carlsson ends up being a better all around player than Bedard.

Sure Bedard can put up his potential 100+ points but if Fantilli is putting up only 80-90 but playing a two way game defending going against top competition and can be like Bergeron level. Doesn’t that fit our needs more? Since we already have flashy players in Zegras and Terry.

 

[tomd]

Here is another 64k dollar question for you guys. You think there is any chance a player like Fantilli/Carlsson ends up being a better all around player than Bedard.

Sure Bedard can put up his potential 100+ points but if Fantilli is putting up only 80-90 but playing a two way game defending going against top competition and can be like Bergeron level. Doesn’t that fit our needs more? Since we already have flashy players in Zegras and Terry.

Your question is interesting but only from a playoffs perspective. Bedard will be a dominant regular season scorer but will he be able to withstand the rigors and physicality of the playoffs? That is the question. Fantill/Carlsson are much more suited to success in the playoffs.

 

[Ducks]

Even in the playoffs, good luck landing an open ice hit on Bedard. He's one of the most elusive skaters I've ever seen, regularly weaving his way through defenders effortlessly. He's also pretty sturdy for 5'9'' (I know he's listed as 5'10'', but I don't believe it), so I think he'll be fine. Someone would probably have to target him against the boards and really line him up with a dirty hit to take him out in the playoffs and the fallout of something like that would be huge given what he means to the league.

 

[KyleJRM]

Here is another 64k dollar question for you guys. You think there is any chance a player like Fantilli/Carlsson ends up being a better all around player than Bedard.

Sure Bedard can put up his potential 100+ points but if Fantilli is putting up only 80-90 but playing a two way game defending going against top competition and can be like Bergeron level. Doesn’t that fit our needs more? Since we already have flashy players in Zegras and Terry.

I think the gap between them is big enough that Bedard will still be the more valuable player.

There's definitely some value to a good defensive forward, but it's not equal to offense, because hockey teams don't have to take turns. The best defensive play in hockey is also the best offensive play: controlling the puck 180 feet away from your own net.

That said, I think it narrows the gap and helps with the cope a bit. I would still rather have him than not, but finding enough pucks for both him and Zegras without getting physically steamrolled would have been a challenge. Of course, I think Z is a bit overrated and I won't cry if he's not a career Duck.

Also, there's no guarantee Bedard will always be a defensive liability. That's not what is getting him to the league, but it's not uncommon for offense-first teenagers to turn into adequate defensive players once they get some experience. He's got the skating ability and work ethic.

 

[AngelDuck]

Bedard is going to be a 125-130 point player IMO. The offense is just legendary. I’m not sure I see Fantilli/Carlsson going much further than 100 in a good season.

The gap is clear

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Here is another 64k dollar question for you guys. You think there is any chance a player like Fantilli/Carlsson ends up being a better all around player than Bedard.

Sure Bedard can put up his potential 100+ points but if Fantilli is putting up only 80-90 but playing a two way game defending going against top competition and can be like Bergeron level. Doesn’t that fit our needs more? Since we already have flashy players in Zegras and Terry.

I think there’s always the chance, but in this case specifically I really don’t think Fantilli should be counted out. I’ve seen the on-ice comp made to MacKinnon but that Athletic article seems to make an off-ice one as well. He seems like an absolute hockey psycho(in the best possible way) that might never stop improving. It’s a great quality to have.

Bedard seems to be cut from that cloth too, but there are also some red flags that are really getting breezed over when it comes to him. Ultimately I think it would’ve swing anything but I do know a few people who don’t think he’s going to translate nearly that well.

 

[HanSolo]

If anyone has a shot to contend with Bedard's raw numbers it's Michkov. But I think it's a fair question as to Fanta or Carlsson's overall impact. All you can really say at this point is you take what you can get. Up to the player we end up with and our development team to determine how far our guy goes and what kind of impact they bring. If all goes right with Fantilli, then yeah, we get a really valuable two way superstar out of it. Whether that value exceeds what Bedard brings to the table is pretty immaterial.

 

[Ducks]

I feel like Fantilli's ceiling is Toews, wheras Bedard's ceiling is Crosby.