Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[HanSolo]

All good points, and while the WC will add some extra viewing and evaluation, I hope how someone plays over the span of 2 weeks doesn't negate a year's worth of scouting.

No of course it shouldn't. It's just for my own leaning. Which at the end of the day is a big investment of time just to feel good about the name called on draft day. I'd say the WC should bear some consideration to the scouts' decision but not the main consideration. But a small consideration that should lend more towards signs of improvement since they were last scouted and areas still needing improvement.

 

[AngelDuck]

If the cap goes up as much as expected in the next few years 14 mil will be right on par percentage wise with his current contract. It's expected to go up 10 mil in the next 3 seasons.

Can you win a cup with him at 11 million? He’s not a MacKinnon, McDavid level player. He’s not even a Leon Draisaitl or Matthew Tkachuk level player

Also, I highly doubt it goes up that much

 

[tomd]

I agree I think this will just be an opportunity for fans to see what we can potentially get. Verbeek and co, may have likely already made up their mind, I dunno.

I'm guessing they are 90% decided.

The problem with scouting the WC games is that Carlsson and Fantilli will be cast in very different roles. Carlsson will be 1C centering 2 good wingers (Raymond and A Nylander). If things remain as they were for Canada's last game, Fantilli will be playing on the wing further down the lineup. Apples and oranges. Also to be taken into consideration is that they'll be playing on the bigger ice surface which obviously doesn't mirror the NHL playing surface.

 

[Beckett]

For most? No. But I'm a big fan of the way Carlsson plays. I'm just not sold that his game will translate (and by that I mean to a franchise level superstar). Someone like Fantilli has some development hurdles to adapt to the NHL but his physical tools and play style are wayyyy better suited for today's NHL. But on the other hand, Carlsson seems to be a much more cerebral player. Fantilli is high octane always moving and always going so sometimes his plays with the puck aren't the best. Carlsson slows the game down for himself and seems to more deliberately analyze the on ice situation better.

I don't have full SHL games to watch him in depth and my concern with Carlsson is I felt the same way about Cody Glass and admittedly, Glass wasn't handled well by Vegas' development team. But he was that cerebral and more cautious type and it's been a struggle for him to adapt, especially given that his skating isn't the best. Carlsson will have to adapt his game to a higher pace and a smaller rink.

So for me, my inclination is more towards Fantilli but I see that there's high value in Carlsson too and it's pretty close. So a small sample of the WCs isn't dispositive but with more NHLers playing it can lend some sense as to how Carlsson might handle himself.

This is pretty much exactly how I see the two. I'm a little afraid Fantilli won't be able to create much offense without blowing by people or using his size, but even if that's true he's an XL Beniers, which is a damn good player. I just have a bias for the more cerebral players, especially when they're his size and already so advanced... his coaches from the SHL and International tourneys trust him like a veteran.

This WC is going to be very interesting to watch... I'm predicting Carlsson has a better tourney, atleast offensively.

 

[FiveTacos]

I’d highly doubt that. If they did that and Michkov finds out they were drumming up rumors about his fathers death just so they could draft him, I don’t think you’d find a single person who would blame him if he said he’d never lace up the skates for them.

You'd think so, but stuff like that does actually happen. I remember back around the mid 90s I read a hockey usenet (dating myself there) post by a SJ season ticket holder, and he said at some exclusive ticket holder event an exec admitted to him that he had ordered their scouts to spread rumors about Jeff Friesen being lazy and having a bad attitude in the months leading up to the draft, as there was a chance he was going to go top 5 and out of SJ's reach. IIRC, he did end up sliding a bit in the final CSB rankings. Whether the rumors worked, or if he dropped all on his own for other reasons, it never seemed to affect how Friesen got along with the team.

Of course, if you ask me Friesen did have a bad attitude. At least with the Ducks. Still hate that bastard. So screw him.

 

[HanSolo]

This is pretty much exactly how I see the two. I'm a little afraid Fantilli won't be able to create much offense without blowing by people or using his size, but even if that's true he's an XL Beniers, which is a damn good player. I just have a bias for the more cerebral players, especially when they're his size and already so advanced... his coaches from the SHL and International tourneys trust him like a veteran.

This WC is going to be very interesting to watch... I'm predicting Carlsson has a better tourney, atleast offensively.

Yeah this is the big thing that keeps me from being 100% all in on Fantilli. There's just so many factors that might influence how Carlsson builds on where he's already at. Some guys like, let's just use an example in Lafreniere, or Griffin Reinhart, are already so advanced relative to their peers that they look really promising but when it comes time to adapt multiple elements of their game to higher level NHL play, they don't develop like other top picks.

Carlsson gets points in his favor because he's already adapted his tools and talent to play well against adults, and like you said, he has the trust of national team coaches for a pretty prominent hockey nation. But if the question comes down to is he going to be a solid 70 point two way 2C or a transcendent first liner who can tilt the game with his intelligence and decision making, you'd want to see more than most of us are able to; how adaptable he is long term and short term. If a deficiency in his game results in a f*** up, how quickly does he clean it up? What does he do to clean it up? I'm no pro but I imagine pro scouts need to look at these nuanced details closely beyond just highlighting the good and bad things a guy does in any given game.

 

[AngelDuck]

Fantilli doesn’t have a questionable hockey IQ. This is something that kind of got made up because of his size and playing style. He sees the ice fine, and has way above average anticipation. He just likes to shoot

 

[ADHB]

Yeah this is the big thing that keeps me from being 100% all in on Fantilli. There's just so many factors that might influence how Carlsson builds on where he's already at. Some guys like, let's just use an example in Lafreniere, or Griffin Reinhart, are already so advanced relative to their peers that they look really promising but when it comes time to adapt multiple elements of their game to higher level NHL play, they don't develop like other top picks.

Carlsson gets points in his favor because he's already adapted his tools and talent to play well against adults, and like you said, he has the trust of national team coaches for a pretty prominent hockey nation. But if the question comes down to is he going to be a solid 70 point two way 2C or a transcendent first liner who can tilt the game with his intelligence and decision making, you'd want to see more than most of us are able to; how adaptable he is long term and short term. If a deficiency in his game results in a f*** up, how quickly does he clean it up? What does he do to clean it up? I'm no pro but I imagine pro scouts need to look at these nuanced details closely beyond just highlighting the good and bad things a guy does in any given game.

Obviously college is not the same level as a professional league, but keep in mind Fantilli is one of the youngest players in NCAA, not one of the oldest.

Lafreniere, Reinhart, Ritchie, Byfield, etc. were playing against mostly 16-19 year olds.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Fantilli doesn’t have a questionable hockey IQ. This is something that kind of got made up because of his size and playing style. He sees the ice fine, and has way above average anticipation. He just likes to shoot

yep, guys who play a little more north-south always come more under the microscope by the arbiters of offensive upside. with that said, I view them pretty closely, and if a trade could be had with CBJ, i might be up for it. I think both guys will be PPG+ players in the end. it's just whatever style you prefer.

 

[HanSolo]

Obviously college is not the same level as a professional league, but keep in mind Fantilli is one of the youngest players in NCAA, not one of the oldest.

Lafreniere, Reinhart, Ritchie, Byfield, etc. were playing against mostly 16-19 year olds.

No doubt. Like I said, I'm leaning Fantilli absent this nagging voice in my head about Michkov. I just hope that if he is our pick that he continues taking time training with NHLers. Past and present. He needs to learn to make smarter plays with the puck at the pace he plays at and he needs to learn to put trust in his teammates because he can't be dictating his team's offensive zone puck possession at all times. That kind of thing comes with growth, maturity, and good coaching/counseling. All that said, you don't put up those numbers as a draft eligible freshman on accident. The kid clearly has elite talent. He just needs to refine it.

 

[AngelDuck]

Watching Fantilli highlights: very few of his goals this year came on breakaways where he’s blowing by guys, so I’m not sure where that line got conjured up from.

The vast majority of his goals are on Draisaitl-like one time snap shots that are on and off his stick in a millisecond. He also has a bomb of a wrist shot.

This player is going to score 40+ goals in the NHL

 

[Mr Rogers]

I'd prefer Fantilli/Carlsson to Michkov but it has nothing to do with his status and fully acknowledging he's exceptionally skilled. I'm not sold on Zegs at C and even less confident he's a C on a real contender. then we're left with just McTavish potentially as a top 6 option if Zegras can't really do it. you can always load up on wingers via trade, FA, and draft. Trades for top Cs almost never happen (maybe Thornton/Eichel in the last 20 years? and Eichel was a very special situation) and anybody you sign in FA is usually washed/super expensive.

 

[Beckett]

I wouldnt say Fantilli has questionable IQ, just that i'm not completely sure it's going to be one of his elite traits at the NHL level. Or atleast at the same level as Carlsson. But like I said I value a players decision making more than any other trait. I'm actually hoping I come away from the WC with more confidence in Fantilli's game, he really does have all the tools to be a star and seems like a very focused hard working kid.

 

[HanSolo]

Watching Fantilli highlights: very few of his goals this year came on breakaways where he’s blowing by guys, so I’m not sure where that line got conjured up from.

The vast majority of his goals are on Draisaitl-like one time snap shots that are on and off his stick in a millisecond. He also has a bomb of a wrist shot.

This player is going to score 40+ goals in the NHL

He does have a tendency to try to walk guys all the way to the goal mouth and by the time he gets there his wristers and backhands don't trouble goalies too much. It didn't come from nowhere. I noticed that in clips where he wasn't scoring. Don't get me wrong you can easily chalk that up to a guy experimenting with what works and what doesn't.

 

[AngelDuck]

I wouldnt say Fantilli has questionable IQ, just that i'm not completely sure it's going to be one of his elite traits at the NHL level. Or atleast at the same level as Carlsson. But like I said I value a players decision making more than any other trait. I'm actually hoping I come away from the WC with more confidence in Fantilli's game, he really does have all the tools to be a star and seems like a very focused hard working kid.

I’ve just noticed on this board(and I’m not saying this is you) that some think better passing/playmaking = higher hockey IQ. I disagree with that line of thinking personally. Hockey IQ to me is about anticipating where the play is going to go before it happens. Fantilli is very good at that

 

[The don godfather]

Bruins fan wondering if a pasta for that 2nd overall pick would get you guys interested? We need the cap help plus we need to replace our center depth with bergy and Dk possibly not coming back. In pasta your getting a 60 goal scorer age 26 and can grow with your young team.

 

[dracom]

Bruins fan wondering if a pasta for that 2nd overall pick would get you guys interested? We need the cap help plus we need to replace our center depth with bergy and Dk possibly not coming back. In pasta your getting a 60 goal scorer age 26 and can grow with your young team.

not even close.

 

[tomd]

Bruins fan wondering if a pasta for that 2nd overall pick would get you guys interested? We need the cap help plus we need to replace our center depth with bergy and Dk possibly not coming back. In pasta your getting a 60 goal scorer age 26 and can grow with your young team.

Boston would never do that trade.

I’ve just noticed on this board(and I’m not saying this is you) that some think better passing/playmaking = higher hockey IQ. I disagree with that line of thinking personally. Hockey IQ to me is about anticipating where the play is going to go before it happens. Fantilli is very good at that

The IQ thing is weird because most of the draft profiles from scouting folks say it is a strength not a weakness. Like you said, IQ means different things to different people but I dont think it's an issue at all.

 

[The don godfather]

Boston would never do that trade.

I agree but it would be so tantalizing if it did. Helps both teams.

not even close.

I thought it was fair.

 

[ScarTroy]

I agree but it would be so tantalizing if it did. Helps both teams.


I thought it was fair.

I think it’s fair to be honest, I wouldn’t do it from the ducks but I think it’s fair. I think Columbus might be more open to that though with age of their core being similar

 

[The don godfather]

I think it’s fair to be honest, I wouldn’t do it from the ducks but I think it’s fair. I think Columbus might be more open to that though with age of their core being similar

Yea but I want fantilli hes not gonna slip to 3rd. No way.

 

[ScarTroy]

Yea but I want fantilli hes not gonna slip to 3rd. No way.

Yeah wasn’t sure if you were high enough on Carlsson to consider their pick

 

[The don godfather]

Yeah wasn’t sure if you were high enough on Carlsson to consider their pick

Fantilli or bust for me and if we dont get him hope you guys do. Kids gonna be a good one.

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

Fantilli doesn’t have a questionable hockey IQ. This is something that kind of got made up because of his size and playing style. He sees the ice fine, and has way above average anticipation. He just likes to shoot

I’m glad he’s gotten a lot of reps as a puckhandler, he definitely knows he has some learning to do. With NHL trainers i’d hope he becomes much more efficient. That being said I don’t want him to stop trying lol, he’s so dangerous.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

I mean, size absolutely matters. Maybe not as much as some people believe it does but now I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way where people legitimately don’t think it accounts for anything at all.

Stutzle is also a weird comp. He’s not big but I don’t think anyone called him small, either.

I hear where you are coming from. I am not saying size is useless. I am saying people use size to reach on prospects while superior Hockey players exist. You should not draft talent in the first round with "they are tall" as one of their main pros. IQ, physical skills, play style, motor. I am not going to argue about size. By all means draft 6'3" and above only and let me know how it works out.

I am not comparing him to stutzle. I would not comp Michkov to anyone. Michkov and Bedard are freaks. I am not sure any comp would do them justice. What I was saying is as a prospect Michkov is head and shoulders better than stutzle. If you would prefer I say he is head shoulder superior to another undersized top level talent, Michkov is head shoulders better as prospect than Jack Hughes. Better? Not even competitive too. Freaks. That is the only way you can describe Michkov and Bedard. The talent they have is almost unnatural, but at the same time looks incredibly natural