GDT: 2023 Draft Lottery - 8PM ET - ESPN, Sportsnet, TVAS: Chicago #1, Anaheim #2, Columbus #3

brakeyawself

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Oct 5, 2006
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Kyle Beach is ecstatic over this news I'm sure. Hawks made more money in the first hour after the draft than they were fined by the league for ruining Kyle Beach's life. What a f***ing joke. The more I get to know them, the more disdain I have for rich people.
Who cares what Kyle Beach thinks or feels about the draft? What does that have to do with the draft at all? And no, I'm not a Hawks fan.

Lol. The Hawks organization didn't ruin Kyle Beach's life. That Aldrich guy got one over on him and he was eventually dealt with. That sucks sure. But Kyle was a 20+ year old man. I don't see how the Hawks organization could or should be that culpable in this situation.

I think it's difficult for many of us to even understand Kyle's actions and reaction in that situation, let alone this idea that somehow Chicago should be eternally punished for the mistakes of an employee and the naivety of a young player.

This was sexual misconduct. The hyperbole is off the hook. And this has nothing to do with rich people. The fact that you are bringing socioeconomics into this just makes me think you are trying to make something that isn't at all political into something political. Marxist much?

Because I hate to break it to you, but all NHL teams are rich. All owners are rich and many execs for every team. And many players for every team. So what does any of that have to do with Beach being duped by a lowly video coach?
 
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Chelios

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This was sexual misconduct. The hyperbole is off the hook. And this has nothing to do with rich people. The fact that you are bringing socioeconomics into this just makes me think you are trying to make something that isn't at all political into something political. Marxist much?

Depends on who's version of events is true. If Beach's version is true, than the incident is certainly much more serious than sexual misconduct.
 

brakeyawself

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Oct 5, 2006
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Depends on who's version of events is true. If Beach's version is true, than the incident is certainly much more serious than sexual misconduct.

That's the thing every single article I've read says the same thing. Aldrich made unwanted sexual advances on Beach and Beach perceived his job and career threatened. If there is something else to the story, I'd love to hear it. But I can't seem to find any more details anywhere.

And based on THAT specific rendition of circumstances, I think many men have a difficult time understanding Beach's position or perception of events and why he felt so powerless. And why he allowed it to go in whatever direction it did. I'm not saying it didn't effect him or it didn't happen. Just that it's very hard to understand how a 20 year old man in a situation like that would react as he did. Now if he were 14 or 15, it would be more understandable.

And this isn;t to say I blame Kyle, I mean, he is who he is, whether that be naive, emotionally immature at that age, not the brightest guy or whatever. And certainly Aldrich should be held accountable to whatever extent.

And what the normative narrative suggests is that Kyle was duped by this guy asserting more power and influence than he actually had. And Kyle was fooled by that.

But nothing I have read suggests he physically overpowered Kyle and forced himself on him.

So it's a bit confusing calling it "sexual assault". As even if there was unwanted contact, that still isn;t overpowering someone. So what we are then really discussing here is a naive young man who got fooled by an older coach who he perceived to have more power and authority than the coach actual had in reality.

And if THAT is the extent of it, then it seems like its being blown out of proportion. So I'm not even sure what Beach is claiming beyond that. But I'm open to reading more if there is something that can actually explain all the seemingly hyperbolic responses to the situation and all the hate the Hawks org is getting.

And as someone who worked in bars in their youth, including a few gay bars, I can't tell you how many times others have made unwanted contact, or tried convincing me to do something I didn't want to. Or tried asserting some false authority to intimidate me. So again unless he was physically overpowered, this is difficult for me to grasp I suppose. I am willing to accept that he was naive enough though to think this video coach had this kind of power and influence, which sucks, and yea, it's wrong.

But from the Hawks e perspective at the time, it's also easy to see why they took their time with this and didn't overreact out of the gate. Because I don't think most young players in that same situation react as Kyle seems to have. So to that extent, its understandable why the Hawks might have been suspicious as well of the claims.
 
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SeanMoneyHands

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Apr 18, 2019
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I can see Kane signing a 2 year deal on the cheap with the Hawks this summer. Then if the Leafs blow up their core this summer, I can see one of Nylander or Marner going to the Hawks.

Then the Hawks trade picks for a #2 center this summer.

Athanasiou - Bedard - Nylander/Marner
Raddysh - ? - Kane
 
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Chelios

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That's the thing every single article I've read says the same thing. Aldrich made unwanted sexual advances on Beach and Beach perceived his job and career threatened. If there is something else to the story, I'd love to hear it. But I can't seem to find any more details anywhere.

Well there is lots of details in the report, and to be honest it is pretty gut wrenching what Beach describes. If that is indeed the way things went down, then it certainly is more than just sexual misconduct.

One point that I do agree with you on, is that based on all the evidence out there, the details of the incident given to the Blackhawks at the time were not what Beach later described. That in addition to the fact that the incident did not occur in the workplace was probably the reason the organization acted the way they did.
 
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hawksrule

Lot of brains but no polish
May 18, 2014
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Joke's on you, Chicago. Now you can only get first overall one more time in the coming four years according to the new rules.
Obviously this was tongue in cheek, but inaccurate. We can only move up one time more in the next four years.
 
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brakeyawself

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Well there is lots of details in the report, and to be honest it is pretty gut wrenching what Beach describes. If that is indeed the way things went down, then it certainly is more than just sexual misconduct.

One point that I do agree with you on, is that based on all the evidence out there, the details of the incident given to the Blackhawks at the time were not what Beach later described. That in addition to the fact that the incident did not occur in the workplace was probably the reason the organization acted the way they did.

I;ll take another look. I'm sure I am missing something then.

But I also find the language being used in th articles problematic. The majority of them refer to Kyle as a "kid" and many of the articles compare this situation to actual KIDS being sexually abused. And Ive noticed many of the comments similarly referring to Kyle as if he were a 13 year old or something.

Part of the problem, from a societal perspective, at least IMO, is this coddling of young MEN. And yes, Kyle was a MAN at this pooint not a KID. But if we keep treating men like kids then we stunt them, emotionally and mentally. We remove responsibility and agency from a young adult, a young man, then they are not going to know how to deal with situations like this and they are not going to feel capable of dealing with situations like this . And from what I've read so far, the Beach situation shows all the hallmarks of this.

Just from my experience, most of the young men I knew at that age, would have laid Aldrich out and worried about the consequences later. And wouldn't have worried one bit knowing they were in the right. And would have went straight to management and explained why they beat the crap out of th evideo coach. And stood by their actions in doing so. So I guess that's the part I find most baffling. But I don't blame Kyle for that, I blame our modern society for telling young adults that they are still children and treating them like they are still children. And thus they will feel like children and react like children. They will feel powerless because we are basically telling them they are powerless. When in reality, biologically speaking, at 20 years old we are full grown adults who would have been fighting wars, having children and dying before we reached 25. But just my opinion of course.
 
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todeskultes

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May 28, 2016
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That's the thing every single article I've read says the same thing. Aldrich made unwanted sexual advances on Beach and Beach perceived his job and career threatened. If there is something else to the story, I'd love to hear it. But I can't seem to find any more details anywhere.

And based on THAT specific rendition of circumstances, I think many men have a difficult time understanding Beach's position or perception of events and why he felt so powerless. And why he allowed it to go in whatever direction it did. I'm not saying it didn't effect him or it didn't happen. Just that it's very hard to understand how a 20 year old man in a situation like that would react as he did. Now if he were 14 or 15, it would be more understandable.

And this isn;t to say I blame Kyle, I mean, he is who he is, whether that be naive, emotionally immature at that age, not the brightest guy or whatever. And certainly Aldrich should be held accountable to whatever extent.

And what the normative narrative suggests is that Kyle was duped by this guy asserting more power and influence than he actually had. And Kyle was fooled by that.

But nothing I have read suggests he physically overpowered Kyle and forced himself on him.

So it's a bit confusing calling it "sexual assault". As even if there was unwanted contact, that still isn;t overpowering someone. So what we are then really discussing here is a naive young man who got fooled by an older coach who he perceived to have more power and authority than the coach actual had in reality.

And if THAT is the extent of it, then it seems like its being blown out of proportion. So I'm not even sure what Beach is claiming beyond that. But I'm open to reading more if there is something that can actually explain all the seemingly hyperbolic responses to the situation and all the hate the Hawks org is getting.

And as someone who worked in bars in their youth, including a few gay bars, I can't tell you how many times others have made unwanted contact, or tried convincing me to do something I didn't want to. Or tried asserting some false authority to intimidate me. So again unless he was physically overpowered, this is difficult for me to grasp I suppose. I am willing to accept that he was naive enough though to think this video coach had this kind of power and influence, which sucks, and yea, it's wrong.

But from the Hawks e perspective at the time, it's also easy to see why they took their time with this and didn't overreact out of the gate. Because I don't think most young players in that same situation react as Kyle seems to have. So to that extent, its understandable why the Hawks might have been suspicious as well of the claims.
What the f*** is wrong with you?
 

Chelios

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I;ll take another look. I'm sure I am missing something then.

But I also find the language being used in th articles problematic. The majority of them refer to Kyle as a "kid" and many of the articles compare this situation to actual KIDS being sexually abused. And Ive noticed many of the comments similarly referring to Kyle as if he were a 13 year old or something.

Part of the problem, from a societal perspective, at least IMO, is this coddling of young MEN. And yes, Kyle was a MAN at this pooint not a KID. But if we keep treating men like kids then we stunt them, emotionally and mentally. We remove responsibility and agency from a young adult, a young man, then they are not going to know how to deal with situations like this and they are not going to feel capable of dealing with situations like this . And from what I've read so far, the Beach situation shows all the hallmarks of this.

Just from my experience, most of the young men I knew at that age, would have laid Aldrich out and worried about the consequences later. And wouldn't have worried one bit knowing they were in the right. And would have went straight to management and explained why they beat the crap out of th evideo coach. And stood by their actions in doing so. So I guess that's the part I find most baffling. But I don't blame Kyle for that, I blame ur modern society of telling young adults that they are still children and treating them like they are still children. But just my opinion of course.

Yeah I am not going to touch this. We can just agree to disagree. Placing the blame anywhere but Aldridge in this situation is a bridge too far for me.
 

brakeyawself

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Oct 5, 2006
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Yeah I am not going to touch this. We can just agree to disagree. Placing the blame anywhere but Aldridge in this situation is a bridge too far for me.

I assume reading comprehension is also a bridge too far then? Because the entire point was that the Hawks should not be blamed for this situation as many are. I didn't blame anyone other than Aldrich for the actual incident..

My other comment was simply asserting that we are ill preparing young adults for the real world by inducing this extended period of immaturity, which is objectively the case if we look at actual statistics. Things like when people move out of their parents house, when they get their first job, when they get married and have children. And of course there are many variables. But some of those variables have to do with societal perception today of young ADULTS as "children". And that is a much, much bigger problem, all encompassing issue, than this one incident.

Aldrich is culpable for this incident. But that also means the Hawks aren't.

I actually stated plainly that Kyle isn't to blame either. So the opposite of whatever it is you are suggesting.

The fact that I find Kyle's reaction and actions strange and perhaps naive, does not mean I place the blame on him. That;s gaslighting everything I actually did say.
 
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ToniJ1960

Registered User
Feb 18, 2009
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I;ll take another look. I'm sure I am missing something then.

But I also find the language being used in th articles problematic. The majority of them refer to Kyle as a "kid" and many of the articles compare this situation to actual KIDS being sexually abused. And Ive noticed many of the comments similarly referring to Kyle as if he were a 13 year old or something.

Part of the problem, from a societal perspective, at least IMO, is this coddling of young MEN. And yes, Kyle was a MAN at this pooint not a KID. But if we keep treating men like kids then we stunt them, emotionally and mentally. We remove responsibility and agency from a young adult, a young man, then they are not going to know how to deal with situations like this and they are not going to feel capable of dealing with situations like this . And from what I've read so far, the Beach situation shows all the hallmarks of this.

Just from my experience, most of the young men I knew at that age, would have laid Aldrich out and worried about the consequences later. And wouldn't have worried one bit knowing they were in the right. And would have went straight to management and explained why they beat the crap out of th evideo coach. And stood by their actions in doing so. So I guess that's the part I find most baffling. But I don't blame Kyle for that, I blame our modern society for telling young adults that they are still children and treating them like they are still children. And thus they will feel like children and react like children. They will feel powerless because we are basically telling them they are powerless. When in reality, biologically speaking, at 20 years old we are full grown adults who would have been fighting wars, having children and dying before we reached 25. But just my opinion of course.
While youre discussing disapproval over others language you continue to refer to young humans as baby goats?
 
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brakeyawself

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Oct 5, 2006
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While youre discussing disapproval over others language you continue to refer to young humans as baby goats?

Way to be pedantic. lol. Kid is a common use term for children, human or goat.
A 20 year old man is thus, not a kid.

Sometimes we call human children pup, or cub, it doesn't mean we think they are dogs or bears.

Calling an adult a "kid" suggests they don't have the responsibility and agency of an adult.

And it's also completely disrespectful and offensive to actual children who do not actually have the responsibility and agency of an adult.

Like i said, this use is problematic. You haven't countered that point at all. If anything you just emphasized the actual problem with this use of the term.
 
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VintageBure

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Jun 7, 2018
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Hey blackhawk fans just want you to know the player you are drafting first overall likely cried himself to sleep last night. He's likely going to underperform, and then do everything he can to get out of the city ASAP
 
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