GDT: 2023 Draft Lottery - 8PM ET - ESPN, Sportsnet, TVAS: Chicago #1, Anaheim #2, Columbus #3

[tarheelhockey]

I;ll take another look. I'm sure I am missing something then.

But I also find the language being used in th articles problematic. The majority of them refer to Kyle as a "kid" and many of the articles compare this situation to actual KIDS being sexually abused. And Ive noticed many of the comments similarly referring to Kyle as if he were a 13 year old or something.

Part of the problem, from a societal perspective, at least IMO, is this coddling of young MEN. And yes, Kyle was a MAN at this pooint not a KID. But if we keep treating men like kids then we stunt them, emotionally and mentally. We remove responsibility and agency from a young adult, a young man, then they are not going to know how to deal with situations like this and they are not going to feel capable of dealing with situations like this . And from what I've read so far, the Beach situation shows all the hallmarks of this.

Just from my experience, most of the young men I knew at that age, would have laid Aldrich out and worried about the consequences later. And wouldn't have worried one bit knowing they were in the right. And would have went straight to management and explained why they beat the crap out of th evideo coach. And stood by their actions in doing so. So I guess that's the part I find most baffling. But I don't blame Kyle for that, I blame our modern society for telling young adults that they are still children and treating them like they are still children. And thus they will feel like children and react like children. They will feel powerless because we are basically telling them they are powerless. When in reality, biologically speaking, at 20 years old we are full grown adults who would have been fighting wars, having children and dying before we reached 25. But just my opinion of course.

The bolded is fantasy. Someone who responds to a sexual come-on with violent assault is probably bringing their own mental illness to the table. Even more so if the person coming on to them is their boss, in a highly public profession. There are too many conflicting emotions in that moment to just snap into "I think I'll beat the shit out of this guy and then tell everyone about it" as a rational first option.

That vulnerability is what sexual predators exploit. Why do you think it takes years for the Graham Jameses and David Frosts and Brad Aldrichs to get caught? How many times do we need to see this scenario before it becomes obvious that in real life, people don't go into superhero attack mode?

 

[brakeyawself]

I'm not the one saying you shouldn't have let yourself get sexually abused, are you braindead?

Where did I say that? What I did say was that I don't quite understand it and could see how the Hawks brass might not react immediately to such a situation before gathering more information. Especially with the little information it appears they had.

But it is a fact of reality that many of us, not just me, have a difficult time understanding what took place and the extent of it. It's beyond our realm of experience. Not being sexually objectified but feeling powerless in such a situation. So again, the Hawks brass, a generation or two older even, would likely have just as difficult a time comprehending what happened as it was presented to them.

So to condemn them for not acting immediately and to attempt to apply culpability on them, doesn't make much sense given the situation. At the end of the day this is two adults we are talking about. They would have to act cautiously.

 

[brakeyawself]

Funny you call me out for reading comprehension and then completely miss my point. I never said you blamed him. I am saying that your comments after saying you don't blame him undermine that very statement.

Its a bit like saying "I am not a racist but..." and then going on to say something racist. The thing you say after "I am not a racist" kinda undermines that statement.

No, I didn't miss anything, I called it a logical fallacy. And yes, you are saying I blamed him. Using your example, the equivalent of racism would be blame.

And I flat out said that logic is fallacious. And no it's not like claiming not to be racist and then saying something racist. That's a false comparison.

My statement didn't undermine that, which is the point. By you saying it undermines that you are then saying I blamed him. If the point actually did undermine it, that would be the case. But it doesn't. And that argument, that it does undermine it, is the fallacious argument that I was pointing out.

So no, I didn't miss anything.

 

[Chelios]

No, I didn't miss anything, I called it a logical fallacy. And yes, you are saying I blamed him. Using your example, the equivalent of racism would be blame.

And I flat out said that logic is fallacious. And no it's not like claiming not to be racist and then saying something racist. That's a false comparison.

My statement didn't undermine that, which is the point. By you saying it undermines that you are then saying I blamed him. If the point actually did undermine it, that would be the case. But it doesn't. And that argument, that it does undermine it, is the fallacious argument that I was pointing out.

So no, I didn't miss anything.

Again, we are going to have to just agree to disagree here. I feel your comments on what Beach should or shouldn't have done in the situation as well as your views on the way society coddles young men undermine your claim that you aren't blaming anyone but Aldridge. You obviously disagree. Fine. You can put your thesaurus down and we can just leave it.

 

[ort]

Are you saying the nhl should rig it so they don't win?

No, this is just an unfortunate result of random chance. I do not believe this is rigged.

I do however think the current draft lotto rules are terrible. Not so much because the third place team dropped down to 1, that’s fine. But, as happy as I would have been if the blues had won the lotto and dropped down 9 spots, I simultaneously understand that that is completely ridiculous and any system that has that as a possibility is deeply flawed.

My beef is all just sour grapes. I’m tired of seeing the same teams win all the time. Spread the love around. I also hate the Blackhawks with a passion. They are our main rival, so to have them kick the crap out of us for a decade straight with their previous lucky draft picks only to have another generational talent fall into their lap 15 years later to start the whole cycle over again is very frustrating as a fan of any other team.

They were already the league darlings for what felt like forever, and now they get another ultra talented superstar to build around.

It’s jealousy… it is. But these ping pong ball breaks never break our way. We’ve had one #1 pick in Blues history and it was Erik ****ing Johnson. That’s some crap luck.

 

[brakeyawself]

The bolded is fantasy. Someone who responds to a sexual come-on with violent assault is probably bringing their own mental illness to the table. Even more so if the person coming on to them is their boss, in a highly public profession. There are too many conflicting emotions in that moment to just snap into "I think I'll beat the shit out of this guy and then tell everyone about it" as a rational first option.

That vulnerability is what sexual predators exploit. Why do you think it takes years for the Graham Jameses and David Frosts and Brad Aldrichs to get caught? How many times do we need to see this scenario before it becomes obvious that in real life, people don't go into superhero attack mode?

The bolded is gaslighting and fantasy. I never suggested anywhere he suffers from mental illness. I don't know that and I couldn't know that. Where did I say he has a mental illness?

"Violent assault" - the claim of violence has been contested. We can't objectively know whether that specific element of the accusation is valid.

The italicized bit is objectively false and an assumption on your part, a broad generalization. It objectively depends on the individual. The fact that many would react in such a way despite those circumstance, or at least, react differently is objectively true. Which again is why I don't and never blamed Kyle.

What I stated was I don't understand the reaction and that it's likely upon hearing what the Hawks execs supposedly heard, it's not hard to see why they too might not completely grasp how this could happen, especially in the face of two contradicting stories.

Enough of the gaslighting. Let'/s move on.

 

[ChiHawks10]

It’s not about just what happened to the player. They also gave said employee a recommendation to work with a YOUTH team despite knowing what employee did to the player in their organization. It’s f***ing indefensible. They should have lost draft picks for half a decade.

This never happened. It was clickbait rumor nonsense.

The lack of knowledge of the situation by those commenting on it on this thread is astronomical. You all need to go read the report on the investigation.

https://www.jenner.com/a/web/8kmbgFUEYWcNnvzFTa5h8H/4HRMZQ/Report%2520to%2520the%2520Chicago%2520Blackhawks%2520Hockey%2520Team%2520-%2520October%25202021.pdf

"After leaving his employment with the Blackhawks, Aldrich went on to work and volunteer at USA Hockey, the University of Notre Dame, Miami University of Ohio, and Houghton High School.621 None of the witnesses we interviewed recalled anyone at the Blackhawks providing a written or verbal reference for Aldrich to his future employers. When interviewed, Aldrich stated that he did not list any Blackhawks employees as references on job applications, nor did he ask anyone from the Blackhawks to vouch for him or make any calls on his behalf.622 USA Hockey reported to us that they identified no records reflecting 64 a reference provided for Aldrich by the Blackhawks.623 We gathered records from Miami University regarding Aldrich’s employment and found no evidence of references, whether written or oral, provided by the Blackhawks. Miami University published an investigative report on September 24, 2021, which stated that Aldrich did not provide references on his resume when he applied to Miami, that the then-head coach of Miami University’s hockey team received Aldrich’s name from the coach’s collegiate hockey connections, and that the head coach and others spoke to the University of Notre Dame about Aldrich and received favorable information.624 The Miami investigative report does not describe any references provided by the Blackhawks.625 The University of Notre Dame declined to share information or records with us, other than to confirm Aldrich’s dates of employment at the university. Houghton High School reported to us that they identified no records reflecting a reference provided for Aldrich by the Blackhawks.626 The head hockey coach at Houghton High School told us that Aldrich did not formally apply for volunteer hockey coaching positions in 2010 and 2012.627 The head coach explained that Aldrich’s uncle, who was the assistant coach in 2010, had told the head coach that Aldrich was not working and asked if the team could help Aldrich.628 In 2012, the team re-hired Aldrich as a volunteer based on his work as a volunteer in 2010.629 The head coach said that he did not contact the Blackhawks about Aldrich at any time.630 "

 

[Northernhawk]

This never happened. It was clickbait rumor nonsense.

The he Blackhawks did not give Aldrich a letter of recommendation…but Coach Joel Quenneville did, that’s why his interview with Bettman was only about 20 mins and it explains the fact is on the outside looking in on the NHL now

President John McDonough told them GM(on less than a season) that he would deal with it…McDonough was relived of his duties as President in April of 2020..,that’s when Rocky Wirtz found out(I believe this)…ultimately Wirtz as owner has to answer for it…he’s paid…Beach agreed to settlement…case over, team cleaned house, Bowman has said that the GM he is now would have handled it differently than the GM he was at the time…

 

[Channelcat]

Bedard looks like a child in that picture. Keep in mind that Kyle Beach was 6'3 and an enforcer. I'm genuinely worried for Bedard's well-being now.

Enough of this self righteous, phony nonsense. Everybody involved is gone!

 

[authentic]

Enough of this self righteous, phony nonsense. Everybody involved is gone!

It's a bit sad that this is all that gets talked about now with Bedard being drafted there. Oh well, good luck to Bedard and Chicago, the fans and current organization have nothing to do with that crap and they should enjoy their player.

 

[ChiHawks10]

The he Blackhawks did not give Aldrich a letter of recommendation…but Coach Joel Quenneville did, that’s why his interview with Bettman was only about 20 mins and it explains the fact is on the outside looking in on the NHL now

President John McDonough told them GM(on less than a season) that he would deal with it…McDonough was relived of his duties as President in April of 2020..,that’s when Rocky Wirtz found out(I believe this)…ultimately Wirtz as owner has to answer for it…he’s paid…Beach agreed to settlement…case over, team cleaned house, Bowman has said that the GM he is now would have handled it differently than the GM he was at the time…

There is nothing in the report about Q giving him a recommendation, either. All that's in the report is that Quenneville did the performance reviews for Aldrich while he was employed with the Hawks. Nothing more.

And with that said, Q should never coach again. The front office staff involved should never be employed in hockey ever again. They should be done forever.

 

[MessierII]

I think it’s great he went to an original 6 team with a legit fan base. That being said probably the worst supporting cast he could have gone too.

 

[Channelcat]

There is nothing in the report about Q giving him a recommendation, either. All that's in the report is that Quenneville did the performance reviews for Aldrich while he was employed with the Hawks. Nothing more.

And with that said, Q should never coach again. The front office staff involved should never be employed in hockey ever again. They should be done forever.

There has been plenty of misrepresentations in this case. On both sides.

 

[Souker]

Damn

 

[ChiHawks10]

There has been plenty of misrepresentations in this case. On both sides.

The misrepresentations are coming from people who haven't read the 107 page report that Jenner & Block put out. Which consists of probably 99.9% non Hawks fans, honestly. Most non-Hawks fans that are posting about this have never read more than a couple clickbait articles about what happened. Whereas we read the report, most of us multiple times, and discussed it for months among ourselves on HF Hawks.

 

[Yatzhee]

We’ve been watching highlights of Carlsson and Fantilli before this. We knew this was going to happen. After a night sleep I’m fine with it. Ducks are further ahead in their rebuild, and Fantilli/Carlsson fit our needs.

As least we won the 2nd lottery drawing, and not drop to 3rd.

As a Sabres fan, I believe I can say all Sabres fans would share in your disappointment. Here's to hoping Anaheim doesn't get the next Eichel, because speaking from fan experience, it's like the loss of 1st over all is the knife going in, the failure of the consolation prize is the twisting of that knife.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The bolded is gaslighting and fantasy. I never suggested anywhere he suffers from mental illness. I don't know that and I couldn't know that. Where did I say he has a mental illness?

I didn’t say you said that. Reread my post.

"Violent assault" - the claim of violence has been contested. We can't objectively know whether that specific element of the accusation is valid.

Punching someone out is violent assault. You are advocating that this is your response to someone of the same gender coming in to you sexually. See above about mental illness.

The italicized bit is objectively false and an assumption on your part, a broad generalization. It objectively depends on the individual. The fact that many would react in such a way despite those circumstance, or at least, react differently is objectively true. Which again is why I don't and never blamed Kyle.

Oh, so now the response depends on the individual? So now it’s not “confusing” for Person A to respond differently than Person B?

That probably should have been your point in the first place. Had that been the case, you wouldn’t have written the prior post.

What I stated was I don't understand the reaction and that it's likely upon hearing what the Hawks execs supposedly heard, it's not hard to see why they too might not completely grasp how this could happen, especially in the face of two contradicting stories.

Oops, you just backtracked what you just wrote in the paragraph above.

Enough of the gaslighting. Let'/s move on.

The term “gaslighting” has a meaning. This isn’t it.

 

[HanSolo]

Enough of this self righteous, phony nonsense. Everybody involved is gone!

And all is right in the world now!

 

[HanSolo]

As a Sabres fan, I believe I can say all Sabres fans would share in your disappointment. Here's to hoping Anaheim doesn't get the next Eichel, because speaking from fan experience, it's like the loss of 1st over all is the knife going in, the failure of the consolation prize is the twisting of that knife.

I mean you still got assets for him. It's not like if Fantilli refused to sign with Anaheim where the compensation is a second round pick.

 

[StrangeVision]

This never happened. It was clickbait rumor nonsense.

The lack of knowledge of the situation by those commenting on it on this thread is astronomical. You all need to go read the report on the investigation.

https://www.jenner.com/a/web/8kmbgFUEYWcNnvzFTa5h8H/4HRMZQ/Report%2520to%2520the%2520Chicago%2520Blackhawks%2520Hockey%2520Team%2520-%2520October%25202021.pdf

"After leaving his employment with the Blackhawks, Aldrich went on to work and volunteer at USA Hockey, the University of Notre Dame, Miami University of Ohio, and Houghton High School.621 None of the witnesses we interviewed recalled anyone at the Blackhawks providing a written or verbal reference for Aldrich to his future employers. When interviewed, Aldrich stated that he did not list any Blackhawks employees as references on job applications, nor did he ask anyone from the Blackhawks to vouch for him or make any calls on his behalf.622 USA Hockey reported to us that they identified no records reflecting 64 a reference provided for Aldrich by the Blackhawks.623 We gathered records from Miami University regarding Aldrich’s employment and found no evidence of references, whether written or oral, provided by the Blackhawks. Miami University published an investigative report on September 24, 2021, which stated that Aldrich did not provide references on his resume when he applied to Miami, that the then-head coach of Miami University’s hockey team received Aldrich’s name from the coach’s collegiate hockey connections, and that the head coach and others spoke to the University of Notre Dame about Aldrich and received favorable information.624 The Miami investigative report does not describe any references provided by the Blackhawks.625 The University of Notre Dame declined to share information or records with us, other than to confirm Aldrich’s dates of employment at the university. Houghton High School reported to us that they identified no records reflecting a reference provided for Aldrich by the Blackhawks.626 The head hockey coach at Houghton High School told us that Aldrich did not formally apply for volunteer hockey coaching positions in 2010 and 2012.627 The head coach explained that Aldrich’s uncle, who was the assistant coach in 2010, had told the head coach that Aldrich was not working and asked if the team could help Aldrich.628 In 2012, the team re-hired Aldrich as a volunteer based on his work as a volunteer in 2010.629 The head coach said that he did not contact the Blackhawks about Aldrich at any time.630 "

That still indicates a profound failure on the part of the Blackhawks organization. Upon finding out what happened, Aldrich's name should have been made widely infamous in the sports world, that can be accomplished in a number of ways. Instead, the Blackhawks chose to sweep it under the rug and as a result of the Blackhawk's actions (or lack thereof), Aldrich was able to easily get employment in hockey again and commit more abuse.

The Blackhawk's lack of immediate action also led to Aldrich behaving inappropriately with another Blackhawks employee directly after the Cup win. After learning about his abuse of Beach and actions with the other Blackhawks employee, the Blackhawks then saw fit to allow Aldrich to have his day with the Cup.

The Blackhawks gave Aldrich the opportunity to quit and Aldrich was allowed to go on his merry way until he ended up in jail for sexually assaulting a high school player.

 

[ChiHawks10]

That still indicates a profound failure on the part of the Blackhawks organization. Upon finding out what happened, Aldrich's name should have been made widely infamous in the sports world, that can be accomplished in a number of ways. Instead, the Blackhawks chose to sweep it under the rug and as a result of the Blackhawk's actions (or lack thereof), Aldrich was able to easily get employment in hockey again and commit more abuse.

The Blackhawk's lack of immediate action also led to Aldrich behaving inappropriately with another Blackhawks employee directly after the Cup win. After learning about his abuse of Beach and actions with the other Blackhawks employee, the Blackhawks then saw fit to allow Aldrich to have his day with the Cup.

The Blackhawks gave Aldrich the opportunity to quit and Aldrich was allowed to go on his merry way until he ended up in jail for sexually assaulting a high school player.

I won't argue against any of that.

All I'm doing is challenging the fake news and nonsense clickbait shit that was rampant when this first came out. There are countless people posting on this topic who haven't read the investigation's report, and have all kinds of inaccurate and false information, trying to pass it off as real. If you're going to debate something, at least do your research and know what you're talking about.(not you, but those who don't)

 

[Chelios]

That still indicates a profound failure on the part of the Blackhawks organization. Upon finding out what happened, Aldrich's name should have been made widely infamous in the sports world, that can be accomplished in a number of ways. Instead, the Blackhawks chose to sweep it under the rug and as a result of the Blackhawk's actions (or lack thereof), Aldrich was able to easily get employment in hockey again and commit more abuse.

But what do you mean “finding out what happened”? Are you saying you believe that the Blackhawk organization knew that Aldridge raped Beach? Because there is literally zero evidence I am aware of that they knew anything more than he made sexual advances towards Beach and “tried to get into the sheets” outside of the workplace. If that was the case, I am genuinely curious what they were supposed to do from a legal perspective.

This is an issue I keep coming across. None of the evidence suggests that anyone knew the extent of what happened as Beach would later describe it. And yet people keep talking about how everyone “knew” as if they knew he was raped. I would actually agree with most around here if that was the case. But as far as we know, all anyone “knew” at the time was that Aldridge made sexual advances towards Beach.

 

[StrangeVision]

But what do you mean “finding out what happened”? Are you saying you believe that the Blackhawk organization knew that Aldridge raped Beach? Because there is literally zero evidence I am aware of that they knew anything more than he made sexual advances towards Beach and “tried to get into the sheets” outside of the workplace. If that was the case, I am genuinely curious what they were supposed to do from a legal perspective.

This is an issue I keep coming across. None of the evidence suggests that anyone knew the extent of what happened as Beach would later describe it. And yet people keep talking about how everyone “knew” as if they knew he was raped. I would actually agree with most around here if that was the case. But as far as we know, all anyone “knew” at the time was that Aldridge made sexual advances towards Beach.

They didn't know because they didn't want to know, that's the entire issue.

The Blackhawks decided to ignore it and then they gave Aldrich the opportunity to quit without an investigation.

It all comes back to how the Blackhawks handled the situation, and they failed miserably. If they separated Aldrich from the team when they found out or even right after the playoffs, prevented him from taking part in the Cup celebrations, and performed an investigation at the time, it would be an entirely different situation. Instead, they ignored it and let Aldrich walk away with his name on the Cup and no black marks on his record, which enabled his further abuse.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Detroit goes 9th , off the top of anyone's head where did they finish
? I didn't even look.

 

[ChiHawks10]

They didn't know because they didn't want to know, that's the entire issue.

The Blackhawks decided to ignore it and then they gave Aldrich the opportunity to quit without an investigation.

It all comes back to how the Blackhawks handled the situation, and they failed miserably. If they separated Aldrich from the team when they found out or even right after the playoffs, prevented him from taking part in the Cup celebrations, and performed an investigation at the time, it would be an entirely different situation. Instead, they ignored it and let Aldrich walk away with his name on the Cup and no black marks on his record, which enabled his further abuse.

Yes, but the people who failed are all gone. Just about none of them are even involved in hockey anymore, let alone at the NHL level, and they never should be again. The owner was found to have not known until it all went public. All this outrage, IMO, is more geared towards the Hawks possibly being relevant again, not long after a decade of pretty much dominance over most the NHL. You think if the Hawks stayed picking 3rd that all this shit would have been brought back up, and people would be screaming for the Hawks to forfeit the pick? Not a chance. I can say that with 100% certainty. It's a convenient excuse for people to scream and piss and moan about the Hawks landing the #1 pick, and potential next "generational" player in the NHL.