2023 Draft Discussion

[lilidk]

Here is the list of guys ranked 7-20. Tell me how many of them you think have great speed or are high end skaters:

7 Brayden Yager
8 Colby Barlow
9 Dalibor Dvorsky
10 Ryan Leonard
11 Oliver Moore
12 Eduard Sale
13 Calum Ritchie
14 Matthew Wood
15 Nate Danielson
16 Ethan Gauthier
17 Axel Sandin-Pellikka
18 Andrew Cristall
19 Samuel Honzek
20 David Reinbacher

Simashev, Leonard, Moore, Reinbacher, Gulyaev, don't know about others

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Yzerman has gone on record that SHL is best the developmental league in the world. I believe in Yzerman's book developmental area matters and he is willing to pass up on talent, if the developmental area is not suitable.

I once posted a list of players where they were drafted from and players Europe and players taking NCAA route were top of the list. Only 8 players from CHL, 4 players(Sebrango 3rd, Zito 6th, Lombardi 4th, Mathurin 5th) from OHL and 3 players(Hanas 2nd, Cotton 5th, Cossa 1st) from WHL. 1 player(Plandowski 5th) from QMJHL, Bednar was drafted from Europe but went to play in Quebec. So the QMJHL seems most unpleasant to Yzerman. It's also interesting that OHL picks are mid and late round picks, and 2/3 WHL picks are high picks. Very hard to predict which the Red Wings org considers as better developmental ground.

In the upcoming draft there ain't many players from SHL projected to go in the 1st round, Carlsson & Sandin-Pellikka and Dvorsky but technically he's from Allsvenskan but that probably won't matter much. But there are lot of players who are taking the NCAA route and in Yzerman's eyes that's the next best thing. So i could see that for the first time in Detroit, Yzerman selects a North American player with 1st pick. Unless Yzerman picks Sale and loans him to Sweden for next year, Sale doesn't have contract for next year.

I'am, i liked his game at the WJC. But that 5'11'' frame doesn't fit Yzerman's MO. Personally i would trade up the 2nd round picks for late 1st and pick Sandin-Pellikka.

Do you have any tangible evidence for this?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Have you ever seen him play?

I think they are similar in that they both are being underrated offensively.

There was a bunch of chatter in Lundell's draft year that he "might only be a 3rd line center" and he ended up sliding out of the top 10. I never really understood it, but it got echoed a lot.

It feels like a similar situation is happening with Dvorsky to me.

I have! And I like the skill level but I don't think he's got the on-ice awareness that a top 6 center has. Is he big? Definitely for Swedish J20. He's practically a giant in that league. Is he producing? He definitely is. Dvorsky is an OK skater and not a really great transporter of the puck. Very good shot, very good playmaking. Can skate himself into trouble and get caught with his head down which will cause major problems on smaller ice. But I still think if you take him as a center and play him as a center you're getting a Slovak Strome brother. The offense doesn't run through him in AIK.

 

[Frk It]

I have! And I like the skill level but I don't think he's got the on-ice awareness that a top 6 center has. Is he big? Definitely for Swedish J20. He's practically a giant in that league. Is he producing? He definitely is. Dvorsky is an OK skater and not a really great transporter of the puck. Very good shot, very good playmaking. Can skate himself into trouble and get caught with his head down which will cause major problems on smaller ice. But I still think if you take him as a center and play him as a center you're getting a Slovak Strome brother. The offense doesn't run through him in AIK.

Look at what he is doing for AIK when he plays against his age group. So what if he isn't lighting up the Allsvenskan? He is young for this class.

I know you and I were big fans of Mesar... Well in that 21/22 Hlinka tournament, Dvorsky was easily the best player for Slovakia. Even despite being a full draft younger than Mesar. Hell, he might have been the best player in that tournament (along with Michkov) period.

I can't say I watch J20 or Allsvenskan games, cause I don't. But I have always thought he looks good in international tournaments. And I think he should be considered a viable option in the 8-15 range. If we were looking at drafting top 6, I would understand your mindset a bit more.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I have! And I like the skill level but I don't think he's got the on-ice awareness that a top 6 center has. Is he big? Definitely for Swedish J20. He's practically a giant in that league. Is he producing? He definitely is. Dvorsky is an OK skater and not a really great transporter of the puck. Very good shot, very good playmaking. Can skate himself into trouble and get caught with his head down which will cause major problems on smaller ice. But I still think if you take him as a center and play him as a center you're getting a Slovak Strome brother. The offense doesn't run through him in AIK.

That is true of all 18-year-olds playing professional hockey in Sweden

 

[wingerdinger]

People are saying they are underwhelmed with his Allsvenskan production... he has 21 pts in 10 games at the J20 level. He would probably be torching the J20 if he was playing there.

Agree people put too much stock in a underage players production in a mens league. it's a big indicator of a players talent just to get minutes against men at that age.

I've watched a healthy amount of AIK in the allsvenskan just to watch Dvorsky. There j20 team is pretty barren besides Dvorsky, so I havent bothered of catching him at that level.

The profile naturally attracted me, but he just seems to be missing compete whenever I watched him. He very rarely stood out and he played it a lot more safer than what I personally was hoping from him.

I wouldnt be against using the NYI 1st on him, and we have to remember that AIK is not a well run program in general so getting a fair assessment is hard. But I see a player with a lot of talent but is a bit too laid back doesnt show enough urgency and awareness in his game. He remind s me a lot of Joey Veleno atm. Which is fine but we need more.

I also just hate to a swedish based player for Hakan's sake. I want the best player available. We need our forward group to get faster meaner and more skillful. If Dvorsky doesnt provide the skill I don't know what else he'd bring.

 

[jfrank21]

Why our whole board isn't behind drafting a 6'1 200 pound center with good skill level who has shined in international tournaments and is another big time talent coming out of Slovakia...

I couldn't tell you for the life of me.

I dont think he'll be there when they pick unfortunately. You would have to think he would be on the short list though. Hes still 17 until mid june as well. Dominating his peer group while still learning the ropes in a men's league. Sounds like a Red Wings Special.

 

[jfrank21]

I have! And I like the skill level but I don't think he's got the on-ice awareness that a top 6 center has. Is he big? Definitely for Swedish J20. He's practically a giant in that league. Is he producing? He definitely is. Dvorsky is an OK skater and not a really great transporter of the puck. Very good shot, very good playmaking. Can skate himself into trouble and get caught with his head down which will cause major problems on smaller ice. But I still think if you take him as a center and play him as a center you're getting a Slovak Strome brother. The offense doesn't run through him in AIK.

Echoing @Frk It here, but a Slovak Strome brother at 10 or 11 isnt the end of the world....especially if it's 18-19 Dylan Strome or 2019-2021 Ryan Strome. And I think Dvorsky is going to end up much better than either one. We're not talking a top 5 pick here.

 

[Frk It]

Echoing @Frk It here, but a Slovak Strome brother at 10 or 11 isnt the end of the world....especially if it's 18-19 Dylan Strome or 2019-2021 Ryan Strome. And I think Dvorsky is going to end up much better than either one. We're not talking a top 5 pick here.

I don’t know man, maybe I am being like Craig button and putting way too much stock in international tournaments.

But I have a real hard time thinking the kid I watched light up the Hlinka lacks skill. That’s gonna be a hard sell on me. I thought he looked good again at the WJC this year.

I would need more of an explanation around the concern around his compete.

I’d also like to have someone explain to me why this guys lacks these things and is ranked top 10 most places?

I guess that’s how this reminds me Lundell.. not in that they are the same player. But rather that there is this narrative getting pushed and I’m not buying it.

 

[lilidk]

I remember how Zadina was so good in u20 t tournament and Svechnikov very disappointing so some even said Zadina better than Svechnikov

 

[NickH8]

Is Prince George's coach handing out beatings for celebrating? Just saw Ziemmer, Heidt, and Wheatcroft connect for a nice passing play to go up 2-1 and they don't even smile, just give some fistbumps and back to the bench. Really weird vibes.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Is Prince George's coach handing out beatings for celebrating? Just saw Ziemmer, Heidt, and Wheatcroft connect for a nice passing play to go up 2-1 and they don't even smile, just give some fistbumps and back to the bench. Really weird vibes.

just another day in the office. Winner mentality

 

[Frk It]

 

[Run the Jewels]

I remember how Zadina was so good in u20 t tournament and Svechnikov very disappointing so some even said Zadina better than Svechnikov

That can be one of the downsides of placing too much value on a tournament where teams play what, 5 - 7 games? He had career high shooting percentages in 2017-18 in both the Q and one WJC. He's never had a shooting percentage above 6.5% in the NHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Is Prince George's coach handing out beatings for celebrating? Just saw Ziemmer, Heidt, and Wheatcroft connect for a nice passing play to go up 2-1 and they don't even smile, just give some fistbumps and back to the bench. Really weird vibes.

It may just be me, but when I watch Heidt I can't figure out how he is as productive as he is.

 

[NickH8]

It may just be me, but when I watch Heidt I can't figure out how he is as productive as he is.

He's just really smart. Right place right time type of guy. Makes smart plays when he has the puck on his stick. Similar to Gaber Perreault. Like Perreault the question is can he translate it to the NHL or is he just gonna be a really good junior scorer.

 

[Perfect Human]

First pick in Rd 1:
Center, righty preferred
Will Smith, R
Ryan Leonard, R
Dalibor Dvorsky, L

Right shot defenseman
David Reinbacher, R
Axel Sandin Pellikka, R

If the centers are gone by the time the wings pick, one of the D should be available, conversely, if both D are taken, one of the centers should still be there at ~10.

Second Pick in Rd 1:
Center, any
Samuel Honzek, L
Nate Danielson, R
Brayden Yager, R
Noah Dower Nilsson, L
Felix Nilsson, L

Playmaking winger, any
Eduard Sale, L
Riley Heidt, L
Oskar Fisker Molgaard, L
Matthew Wood, R

The above are my priorities and targets for both first round picks.

 

[Frk It]

First pick in Rd 1:
Center, righty preferred
Will Smith, R
Ryan Leonard, R
Dalibor Dvorsky, L

Right shot defenseman
David Reinbacher, R
Axel Sandin Pellikka, R

If all three centers are gone by the time the wings pick, one of the D should be available, conversely, if both D are taken, one of the centers should still be there at ~10.

Second Pick in Rd 1:
Center, any
Samuel Honzek, L
Nate Danielson, R
Brayden Yager, R
Noah Dower Nilsson, L
Felix Nilsson, L

Playmaking winger, any
Eduard Sale, L
Riley Heidt, L
Oskar Fisker Molgaard, L
Matthew Wood, R

The above are my priorities and targets for both first round picks.

I don't think Leonard has played any center this year, and I don't know he will play it moving forward given that entire line from the USDP is going to BU together where Will Smith is the one that plays center.

 

[Perfect Human]

I don't think Leonard has played any center this year, and I don't know he will play it moving forward given that entire line from the USDP is going to BU together where Will Smith is the one that plays center.

Thanks for the correction. Is there another center you would add to that tier 2 center list?

I also like the right hand shot.

 

[Frk It]

He's just really smart. Right place right time type of guy. Makes smart plays when he has the puck on his stick. Similar to Gaber Perreault. Like Perreault the question is can he translate it to the NHL or is he just gonna be a really good junior scorer.

I mean, I think Perrault has really obvious good offensive skills. But that's just me. I also think he should be considered a top 15 player in this class and have him ranked in the 10-15 range.

Thanks for the correction. Is there another center you would add to that tier 2 center list?

I also like the right hand shot.

Oliver Moore

 

[SantosHalper]

Do you have any tangible evidence for this?

None, just my own delusional beliefs. Based on the 31 or 32 drafted players(depends how you want to count Bednar) who are from Europe or taking the college route, versus the 8 or 9 players(Bednar) drafted from the CHL.

Like we all know very well that mid/late round picks needs more time to develop, players from Europe and players who are going to college don't need get signed until 4 years after the draft. CHL players players needs to get signed 2 years after the draft and some of them might not be ready to take the leap to the pro's. Those extra years gives prospects more time develop and then they will be more readier to take the leap to AHL, and also they might not need that much time in the AHL after spending those years developing in Europe/college to make the jump to NHL.

Im not a NCAA expert but every interview what i've seen or read, the players have praised the training possibilities, how great the faculties are and how they helped him to work on his weaknesses. In Europe the prospects get's to play pro hockey, with and against guys who are doing this for a living. Now some people say that the veteran presence is overrated or it doesn't have much effect on a player, they are just dead wrong. In my line of work and pretty much in every technical job, young guys always get's paired up with a veteran. It's a right way to learn how to work. It also works in hockey or in every team sport.

Therefore i believe that Yzerman prefers some developmental areas.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Do you have any tangible evidence for this?

Wouldn't seider be an example? He was slated to be drafted late 1st round and everyone on the panel/nhl executives had puzzled faces and had no idea why seider would have been picked. But Yzerman saw his development potential and went with it.

We could have gotten podkolzin, zegras, broberg, cozens, boldy, etc. If I remember correctly, people around here were wanting at least one of those players. They had Seider go to rogle during lockdowns because they like the SHL system and obviously performed well there.

 

[Frk It]

Wouldn't seider be an example? He was slated to be drafted late 1st round and everyone on the panel/nhl executives had puzzled faces and had no idea why seider would have been picked. But Yzerman saw his development potential and went with it.

We could have gotten podkolzin, zegras, broberg, cozens, boldy, etc. If I remember correctly, people around here were wanting at least one of those players. They had Seider go to rogle during lockdowns because they like the SHL system and obviously performed well there.

The development route is secondary to the player. They obviously really liked Seider and thought he was undervalued in that draft, probably because he plays in a league with less eyes on it (the DEL).

You don't even know when you draft Seider if he is going to end up in the SHL. You can recommend it. What if he says no and he wants to stay in Germany and play in the DEL? You can't really control that.

 

[NickH8]

I mean, I think Perrault has really obvious good offensive skills. But that's just me. I also think he should be considered a top 15 player in this class and have him ranked in the 10-15 range.

Oliver Moore

I'd be cool with Perreault or Heidt with our 2nd pick. With the 1st one I'd like someone with more dimensions to their game than those two like Reinbacher or Moore.

 

[Detroit Knights]

The development route is secondary to the player. They obviously really liked Seider and thought he was undervalued in that draft, probably because he plays in a league with less eyes on it (the DEL).

You don't even know when you draft Seider if he is going to end up in the SHL. You can recommend it. What if he says no and he wants to stay in Germany and play in the DEL? You can't really control that.

He signed his entry level contract 2 weeks after the draft, so wouldn't the red wings have control of where he plays and where he doesn't? Obviously, they will take his input in consideration but isn't it ultimately the team's decision?

And no, we probably weren't going to send him to Rogle, but covid lockdowns happened and sweden didn't do lockdowns, so the players played. Pretty sure that was the only reason why he went there because he was playing in GR 2019-20