2023 Draft Discussion

[Perfect Human]

Why our whole board isn't behind drafting a 6'1 200 pound center with good skill level who has shined in international tournaments and is another big time talent coming out of Slovakia...

I couldn't tell you for the life of me.

Dvorsky is a "late" birthday too. He will be 18 for the entire 2023-2024 season.

 

[Frk It]

Dvorsky is a "late" birthday too. He will be 18 for the entire 2023-2024 season.

People are saying they are underwhelmed with his Allsvenskan production... he has 21 pts in 10 games at the J20 level. He would probably be torching the J20 if he was playing there.

 

[Perfect Human]

People are saying they are underwhelmed with his Allsvenskan production... he has 21 pts in 10 games at the J20 level. He would probably be torching the J20 if he was playing there.

Bingo.
Show me another draft eligible center with over 2 ppg in J20.

 

[Frk It]

Bingo.
Show me another draft eligible center with over 2 ppg in J20.

The narrative around Dvorsky reminds me a lot of the one around Lundell. Getting overly picked apart for no reason, IMO.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Totally understand that, but the point remains that players who have played in the SHL are further along in their development tracks than players who haven't. Obviously this is inflated by having more higher end picks play in the SHL, but it is still a valid point. It seems that Yzerman and the development staff (Horcoff) prefer to have young players ripen on the vine against men. They even decided to move Cossa out of the CHL after one year. I am not saying the Wings will not and should not draft a top NA talent available to them on draft day, just saying if we have two picks in the first, and use both, one will likely be on a player who will be in the SHL next season for their development.

How many of those players continued to play in the USHL or CHL? Really only Hanas who was a late bloomer due to covid seasons and Cossa for one year. It seems the days of leaving "junior" players in the juniors are done? Maybe its just been good drafting and scouting, but Mazur, Savage, and James are all in the NCAA playing against players older than themselves and Cossa, who started the season at 19 yr old, has played pro hockey against men this entire year.

Yzerman all but said it last year at the draft; they draft prospects in part for their development trajectory and where they plan to play to facilitate the development on and off the ice. It seems he does not like CHL for a development pipeline. Lombardi and Hanas are really the only two notable picks in the past few years who played D+1 and D+2 years in the CHL, and in Lombardi's case it is because of his later development relative to his draft year and being an overager.

Speculate all you want as to why, but who can blame him? Hockey Canada has been shown to be a stellar organization recently (sarcasm), and this could be a reason why Yzerman choses to have players develop elsewhere.

No league experienced more disruption than the CHL from COVID. I am not surprised that during his time here (largely coinciding with the COVID shut down), we haven't drafted more players from major junior hockey.

Again, I think you are reading into this too much. As a fan group we probably romanticize Swedish hockey and the SHL a bit too much given our organization's success with Swedish players. I am sure that Stevie likes the SHL when available as a development path, but I don't think it is a deciding factor at all. For example, I don't think our draft list is 25 Swedish players followed by 75 NA and other random Euro prospects or that Stevie just tells Hakan to pick whoever the f*** he likes at a certain point. If we are picking 10 and Bedard or Fantilli fell to us by some major, major act of god, Yzerman isn't going to pass on them simply because they did not come through the SHL or an SHL-affiliated program. More importantly, a European scout in that position is not going to tell Yzerman he should pass on Bedard or Fantilli to take some kid from a region they scout.

The narrative around Dvorsky reminds me a lot of the one around Lundell. Getting overly picked apart for no reason, IMO.

Skating matters

 

[Frk It]

Skating matters

I mean, I think his skating is a easily good deal better than McGroarty, who teams thought was worth drafting 14th last year.

Do you think his skating is an issue? I think it is average or fine. If he was 5'10/5'11, I might be concerned.

I don't know, I feel like this is just something that is getting repeated on here without people seeing him play.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Would love heidt with the islanders pick

 

[Realgud]

My only real issue with Dvorsky is his inconsistent effort from game to game, but the same can be said for other prospects who went to have great careers. I think his talent level is very high and it would be worth betting on that. I also think betting on prospects on when they show you their best is a good idea. Their development process would include trying to capture that energy more consistently and that's one part of the whole equation for their pro career. I'd love to be able to interview him to see where his head is at, I think that's gonna determine if he drops and gets picked very high.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I mean, I think his skating is a easily good deal better than McGroarty, who teams thought was worth drafting 14th last year.

Do you think his skating is an issue? I think it is average or fine. If he was 5'10/5'11, I might be concerned.

I don't know, I feel like this is just something that is getting repeated on here without people seeing him play.

I think Lundell had an wonky stride and posture, but was relatively athletic and powerful. I worry about explosiveness with Dvorsky. I guess how you feel about his skating probably turns on whether you expect him to play center or not. If you draft him as a winger the skating probably doesn't bother you as much.

 

[Frk It]

I think Lundell had an wonky stride and posture, but was relatively athletic and powerful. I worry about explosiveness with Dvorsky. I guess how you feel about his skating probably turns on whether you expect him to play center or not. If you draft him as a winger the skating probably doesn't bother you as much.

I see him as a center, and I do not think his skating is prohibitive of him playing center in the NHL given his size and the way he plays.

He is very young, I think it’s something that could be improved.

I personally find that concern to be overblown. There are not many elite skaters in this class. I don’t think there are many guys that are clearly better skaters than Dvorsky in the range we will be picking. If someone prefers Moore because he is a better skater, that’s fine, I totally get that. But other than him? Not sure anyone is a clearly better skater. And I could see Dvorsky being better offensively than Moore.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

I just noticed that with the wings, blues and VAN picks 2nd round we have
#40 OA Detroit
#41 OA Detroit
#42 OA Detroit

thats 3 picks in a ROW that is insane??!!
Who are the highest upside guys around this Area? Dower-Nilsson?
Whens the last time a team had 3 picks consecutively in the top 50?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I just noticed that with the wings, blues and VAN picks 2nd round we have
#40 OA Detroit
#41 OA Detroit
#42 OA Detroit

thats 3 picks in a ROW that is insane??!!
Who are the highest upside guys around this Area? Dower-Nilsson?
Whens the last time a team had 3 picks consecutively in the top 50?

boston had 11 12 13 in 2014?

 

[WingsToPick4th]

boston had 11 12 13 in 2014?

oh yeah! good memory, didnt they flop on all 3 of those and Barzal+ Kyle connor were picked right after lol

 

[NickH8]

I just noticed that with the wings, blues and VAN picks 2nd round we have
#40 OA Detroit
#41 OA Detroit
#42 OA Detroit

thats 3 picks in a ROW that is insane??!!
Who are the highest upside guys around this Area? Dower-Nilsson?
Whens the last time a team had 3 picks consecutively in the top 50?

Dower-Nilsson works. Maybe Stenberg. If it were me id take a flier on a guy like Gulyayev or Molendyck but Steve doesn't tend to draft small dmen.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Also, anyone interested in Axel Sandin-Pelikka? Hes already in the SHL, RHD maybe behind MO if Reinbacher is already selected (likely top 10)

 

[NickH8]

Dower-Nilsson works. Maybe Stenberg. If it were me id take a flier on a guy like Gulyayev or Molendyck but Steve doesn't tend to draft small dmen.

William Whitelaw and Alex Ciernik are other guys I'd consider with those picks.

 

[lilidk]

People are saying they are underwhelmed with his Allsvenskan production... he has 21 pts in 10 games at the J20 level. He would probably be torching the J20 if he was playing there.

It's all about his speed, can he improve it?.

 

[SantosHalper]

Just focusing on skaters and not goalies:

The top 3 organization prospects are products of the SHL: Kasper, Edvinsson, Wallinder.
Seider and Raymond are products of the SHL.
Berggren is a product of the SHL.
AlJo is a product of the SHL.

This has to impact the scouting teams' views on players and their development track. I have a hard time seeing the Wings use both 1st round picks in this upcoming draft on players outside of the SHL given this track record. Maybe one NA, one SHL, but if both picks are used, it seems like a sure bet one will be a product of Sweden.

Yzerman has gone on record that SHL is best the developmental league in the world. I believe in Yzerman's book developmental area matters and he is willing to pass up on talent, if the developmental area is not suitable.

I once posted a list of players where they were drafted from and players Europe and players taking NCAA route were top of the list. Only 8 players from CHL, 4 players(Sebrango 3rd, Zito 6th, Lombardi 4th, Mathurin 5th) from OHL and 3 players(Hanas 2nd, Cotton 5th, Cossa 1st) from WHL. 1 player(Plandowski 5th) from QMJHL, Bednar was drafted from Europe but went to play in Quebec. So the QMJHL seems most unpleasant to Yzerman. It's also interesting that OHL picks are mid and late round picks, and 2/3 WHL picks are high picks. Very hard to predict which the Red Wings org considers as better developmental ground.

In the upcoming draft there ain't many players from SHL projected to go in the 1st round, Carlsson & Sandin-Pellikka and Dvorsky but technically he's from Allsvenskan but that probably won't matter much. But there are lot of players who are taking the NCAA route and in Yzerman's eyes that's the next best thing. So i could see that for the first time in Detroit, Yzerman selects a North American player with 1st pick. Unless Yzerman picks Sale and loans him to Sweden for next year, Sale doesn't have contract for next year.

Also, anyone interested in Axel Sandin-Pelikka? Hes already in the SHL, RHD maybe behind MO if Reinbacher is already selected (likely top 10)

I'am, i liked his game at the WJC. But that 5'11'' frame doesn't fit Yzerman's MO. Personally i would trade up the 2nd round picks for late 1st and pick Sandin-Pellikka.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The narrative around Dvorsky reminds me a lot of the one around Lundell. Getting overly picked apart for no reason, IMO.

Lundell had more standout tools. Passing, shooting and hockey sense notably. Plus it was just about a sure thing he’d be center when Dvorsky is maybe a 50/50 shot at being center.

 

[Frk It]

Lundell had more standout tools. Passing, shooting and hockey sense notably. Plus it was just about a sure thing he’d be center when Dvorsky is maybe a 50/50 shot at being center.

Have you ever seen him play?

I think they are similar in that they both are being underrated offensively.

There was a bunch of chatter in Lundell's draft year that he "might only be a 3rd line center" and he ended up sliding out of the top 10. I never really understood it, but it got echoed a lot.

It feels like a similar situation is happening with Dvorsky to me.

 

[Frk It]

It's all about his speed, can he improve it?.

Here is the list of guys ranked 7-20. Tell me how many of them you think have great speed or are high end skaters:

7 Brayden Yager
8 Colby Barlow
9 Dalibor Dvorsky
10 Ryan Leonard
11 Oliver Moore
12 Eduard Sale
13 Calum Ritchie
14 Matthew Wood
15 Nate Danielson
16 Ethan Gauthier
17 Axel Sandin-Pellikka
18 Andrew Cristall
19 Samuel Honzek
20 David Reinbacher

 

[Frk It]

Also, anyone interested in Axel Sandin-Pelikka? Hes already in the SHL, RHD maybe behind MO if Reinbacher is already selected (likely top 10)

I really doubt Yzerman is interested, although pretty much the only scenario I see him really being worth a top 20-25 pick ironically enough is if you think he becomes Anton Stralman 2.0.

But I am hesitant with him, I don't really know he has a stand-out attribute. I would probably prefer to draft someone like Brzustewicz, Bonk, Akey, or Cam Allen in round 2.

 

[NickH8]

Here is the list of guys ranked 7-20. Tell me how many of them you think have great speed or are high end skaters:

7 Brayden Yager
8 Colby Barlow
9 Dalibor Dvorsky
10 Ryan Leonard
11 Oliver Moore
12 Eduard Sale
13 Calum Ritchie
14 Matthew Wood
15 Nate Danielson
16 Ethan Gauthier
17 Axel Sandin-Pellikka
18 Andrew Cristall
19 Samuel Honzek
20 David Reinbacher

Other: Gavin Brindley

 

[Frk It]

Other: Gavin Brindley

Do you think he is one (a high-end skater)?

I saw you mention Molendyk, I think he is one of the best skaters in the draft possibly. Wonder if Yzerman would make an exception on him (being under 6 foot).

 

[NickH8]

Do you think he is one (a high-end skater)?

I saw you mention Molendyk, I think he is one of the best skaters in the draft possibly. Wonder if Yzerman would make an exception on him (being under 6 foot).

Molendyk and Brindley go zoom
I will find clips for Brindley when I get home.