2023 Draft Discussion

[Frk It]

He signed his entry level contract 2 weeks after the draft, so wouldn't the red wings have control of where he plays and where he doesn't? Obviously, they will take his input in consideration but isn't it ultimately the team's decision?

That's a good point, I thought there was a gap before he signed his deal. I don't know how much control the team has where a player goes after they sign a deal. I figured there was still some level of free will? But I can't say I know how that works.

Still seems kind of hard for me to wrap around the thought process of "Yeah Im going to draft this guy over this other guy because I can probably stick them in the SHL"

 

[Detroit Knights]

That's a good point, I thought there was a gap before he signed his deal. I don't know how much control the team has where a player goes after they sign a deal. I figured there was still some level of free will? But I can't say I know how that works.

Still seems kind of hard for me to wrap around the thought process of "Yeah Im going to draft this guy over this other guy because I can probably stick them in the SHL"

That's not where I was getting at. He made GR after signing his entry level. So, the plan was to probably keep him over in NA but covid.

I think they intentionally sent him to Rogle over all the other leagues (seider and others went to rogle or the SHL right?) because Yzerman knows they are a good program (if Yzerman had last say on where he goes instead of not playing at all) and was going off of the political environment of no lockdowns, so they would be able to freely play without that worry.

Obviously speculation, but seems plausible.

 

[Frk It]

That's not where I was getting at. He made GR after signing his entry level. So, the plan was to probably keep him over in NA but covid.

I think they intentionally sent him to Rogle over all the other leagues (seider and others went to rogle or the SHL right?) because Yzerman knows they are a good program (if Yzerman had last say on where he goes instead of not playing at all) and was going off of the political environment of no lockdowns, so they would be able to freely play without that worry.

Obviously speculation, but seems plausible.

Yeah sorry, I was responding to that post above yours while also responding to yours. Should have quoted both.

Yeah that was like Veleno playing SHL. There are some cases where even if you were to draft a guy thinking you are getting a certain development path, it can change. Which is part of why it is silly to draft someone based off that.

Although I do understand the appeal of the extra year of rights with NCAA/Euro players.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Yeah sorry, I was responding to that post above yours while also responding to yours. Should have quoted both.

Yeah that was like Veleno playing SHL. There are some cases where even if you were to draft a guy thinking you are getting a certain development path, it can change. Which is part of why it is silly to draft someone based off that.

Although I do understand the appeal of the extra year of rights with NCAA/Euro players.

Makes sense.

An example would be with Kaspar from this past year right? He either had to make the team or go to one of the canadian hockey leagues if he signed or something? Wasn't there some hubbub of that and they sent him back to shl instead?

 

[Reddwit]

I just noticed that with the wings, blues and VAN picks 2nd round we have
#40 OA Detroit
#41 OA Detroit
#42 OA Detroit

thats 3 picks in a ROW that is insane??!!
Who are the highest upside guys around this Area? Dower-Nilsson?
Whens the last time a team had 3 picks consecutively in the top 50?

Boston had picks 13, 14, and 15 in 2015. They took Zboril, DeBrusk, and Senyshyn. Barzal, Connor, and Chabot were all taken directly after.

It’s hard to say who goes top 50. There’s been a lot of movement there. One guy I want with one of those 40s picks is Brzustewicz, if he’s still around. His game looks really translatable.

 

[HoweFan]

Dower-Nilsson works. Maybe Stenberg. If it were me id take a flier on a guy like Gulyayev or Molendyck but Steve doesn't tend to draft small dmen.

When I do the FC draft I take Danil But, Samuel Honsek, and Carson Rehkroft every time. I don’t think any of them will be there but it makes for a great draft coupled with the first rounders

 

[Avery Rule]

Wouldn't seider be an example? He was slated to be drafted late 1st round and everyone on the panel/nhl executives had puzzled faces and had no idea why seider would have been picked. But Yzerman saw his development potential and went with it.

We could have gotten podkolzin, zegras, broberg, cozens, boldy, etc. If I remember correctly, people around here were wanting at least one of those players. They had Seider go to rogle during lockdowns because they like the SHL system and obviously performed well there.

I will never forget that day, I was out and about parked in front of the store and I said I want to see who Detroit drafts before we go in...
And I really liked Byram and Zegras and knew Byram wouldn't be there.
Then it gets to Stevie and he says "From Manheim of the DEL" and my jaw just dropped and literally said What the ****
The moment will forever be burned in my mind haha

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Wouldn't seider be an example? He was slated to be drafted late 1st round and everyone on the panel/nhl executives had puzzled faces and had no idea why seider would have been picked. But Yzerman saw his development potential and went with it.

We could have gotten podkolzin, zegras, broberg, cozens, boldy, etc. If I remember correctly, people around here were wanting at least one of those players. They had Seider go to rogle during lockdowns because they like the SHL system and obviously performed well there.

The proposition is that Yzerman passed on drafting certain players because of the development path ahead of them or the path they had purportedly chosen. I don't think Seider supports or refutes that proposition one way or another. Frankly, I am very skeptical that we will ever have evidence that he passed on a particular player because of where he was playing. For the record, by draft week Seider was not expected to be taken in the mid first. It was widely reported that Yzerman tried to trade down but ultimately decided against it because he thought someone else was hot to take him.

I don't worship the CHL like some people do, but I very much respect it because it produces a shit ton of NHL talent and will continue to do so. Personally I don't love taking CHL kids towards the end of the draft, but their players absolutely warrant a lot of attention in the first three rounds. Turning your back on it is about the dumbest thing you could do as an organization. Good players come from all sorts of places. More importantly, we will never know what the Wings draft board actually looks like. The players we end up drafting could be anomalies for all we know with respect to where they are playing. People need to put to bed this stupid notion that the brass just lets scouts take players or that only certain scouts like certain players. We develop a draft list like every other team in the league.

 

[SantosHalper]

Still seems kind of hard for me to wrap around the thought process of "Yeah Im going to draft this guy over this other guy because I can probably stick them in the SHL"

Yeah sorry, I was responding to that post above yours while also responding to yours. Should have quoted both.

Yeah that was like Veleno playing SHL. There are some cases where even if you were to draft a guy thinking you are getting a certain development path, it can change. Which is part of why it is silly to draft someone based off that.

I'm guessing you meant my post? I know my theory sounds very odd but that's the way i see it, maybe im reading too much in to the situation but the numbers are just so lopsided. To me it's seems unlikely to be just a coincidence.

And you are right about the path, it can change but there hasn't been many changes so far. Tuomisto from NCAA to Liiga and Bednar from Czechia to QMJHL, allthough i don't know was Bednar going to Canada before the draft or was the decision made afterwards.

The proposition is that Yzerman passed on drafting certain players because of the development path ahead of them or the path they had purportedly chosen. I don't think Seider supports or refutes that proposition one way or another. Frankly, I am very skeptical that we will ever have evidence that he passed on a particular player because of where he was playing.

I should been more clearer on this subject. I don't believe that the developmental path matters when it comes to the players selected from the 1st round, since Red Wings are getting high picks. You can expect the players to challenge for a NHL spot within 2 years after the draft, goalies are different obviously.

But mid/late round picks, i think there they prefer players from Europe or players who are taking the college route. Like i said i have no evidence and im not arguing that im right, this just my own theory based on the numbers where most of the players are drafted from.

People need to put to bed this stupid notion that the brass just lets scouts take players

When Tuomisto was drafted it was Draper or Yzerman, who said that Tyler Wright was really high on him. Draper also said that Hakan Andersson was literally pounding the table to draft Liam Dover-Nilsson. Draper has been high on gritty forwards through out of his front office career.

Scouts can sell the player to the brass and afterwards it easy to identify which scout was behind it. At least on european players.

 

[Killerjas]

I just noticed Scouching is quiting, he was by go to for insights on prospects. What a shame

 

[Realgud]

Posted this in the late-round prospects thread if anyone is curious... link

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I just noticed Scouching is quiting, he was by go to for insights on prospects. What a shame

But why?

 

[Frk It]

Perrault with our top pick… y’all will get there eventually.

 

[lilidk]

The proposition is that Yzerman passed on drafting certain players because of the development path ahead of them or the path they had purportedly chosen. I don't think Seider supports or refutes that proposition one way or another. Frankly, I am very skeptical that we will ever have evidence that he passed on a particular player because of where he was playing. For the record, by draft week Seider was not expected to be taken in the mid first. It was widely reported that Yzerman tried to trade down but ultimately decided against it because he thought someone else was hot to take him.

I don't worship the CHL like some people do, but I very much respect it because it produces a shit ton of NHL talent and will continue to do so. Personally I don't love taking CHL kids towards the end of the draft, but their players absolutely warrant a lot of attention in the first three rounds. Turning your back on it is about the dumbest thing you could do as an organization. Good players come from all sorts of places. More importantly, we will never know what the Wings draft board actually looks like. The players we end up drafting could be anomalies for all we know with respect to where they are playing. People need to put to bed this stupid notion that the brass just lets scouts take players or that only certain scouts like certain players. We develop a draft list like every other team in the league.

It's takes much longer to develop defenseman than forward, besides, we just drafted Zadina, Veleno and Berggren. Yzerman decided draft heavily D, Broberg had his flows and Seider just played for German national team and was excellent stay home D. So Yzerman desided to get Seider. Guys we just got lucky that Seider is such a complete player, not just excellent stay home defenseman .

 

[Reddwit]

Perrault with our top pick… y’all will get there eventually.

I wouldn’t complain. You can’t deny what he’s done this year. He’s in great company statistically. Is he an Yzerman type though?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Perrault with our top pick… y’all will get there eventually.

he’s the anti zadina.

No elite skills but he’s just in the right place at the right time and does the right thing. Hockey sense off the charts

 

[Frk It]

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

With honzek out indefinitely with a concussion I could see him seriously slipping down draft boards. With such a stacked draft he’s had a few injuries and not a ton of game tape compared to others. I don’t think he falls out of the first but if he does you sprint to the podium to get him. Also Matthew wood is such a boom or bust pick, that guy has a huge chance of being the selection with the islanders pick. 6’3, heavy shot, willingness to play along the boards/defensively and is still really really young. His skating is not good but you gotta wonder if his frame is part of that.

 

[Vector Cereal]

I will never forget that day, I was out and about parked in front of the store and I said I want to see who Detroit drafts before we go in...
And I really liked Byram and Zegras and knew Byram wouldn't be there.
Then it gets to Stevie and he says "From Manheim of the DEL" and my jaw just dropped and literally said What the ****
The moment will forever be burned in my mind haha

I had almost the exact same thing. Leaving ikea and sitting in the parking lot to wait for the pick. Wanted Zegras there and was speechless after Seider was announced

 

[NickH8]

With honzek out indefinitely with a concussion I could see him seriously slipping down draft boards. With such a stacked draft he’s had a few injuries and not a ton of game tape compared to others. I don’t think he falls out of the first but if he does you sprint to the podium to get him. Also Matthew wood is such a boom or bust pick, that guy has a huge chance of being the selection with the islanders pick. 6’3, heavy shot, willingness to play along the boards/defensively and is still really really young. His skating is not good but you gotta wonder if his frame is part of that.

Wood is growing on me. I don't mind taking a chance on a guy with skating issues who's really good at everything else. Fantilli is spoiling peoples expectations of what good NCAA production in a draft year looks like. In any other draft I think Wood would (lol) be getting a lot more attention.

 

[jkutswings]

Wood is growing on me.

 

[appiepi]

Right now we have the 40th, 41st, and 43rd picks in the 2nd round. Not saying we should but how high of a pick do you guys think we could get if we were to package all 3 picks to move up in the draft??

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Right now we have the 40th, 41st, and 43rd picks in the 2nd round. Not saying we should but how high of a pick do you guys think we could get if we were to package all 3 picks to move up in the draft??

probably around 20

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

probably around 20

Depends on who wants to dance, but yeah, around that.

EDIT: Personally, I'd use every pick as is.

But I have a feeling that Yzerman will be making some moves.

 

[lilidk]

Right now we have the 40th, 41st, and 43rd picks in the 2nd round. Not saying we should but how high of a pick do you guys think we could get if we were to package all 3 picks to move up in the draft??

Out 2018 draft we got 3 NHL players, one second and 2 first round
The best out of 3 is second round pick.