Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

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shadow1

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The last one... one of my friends got himself in a pickle. He loved an unclean woman, developed an infection, and then had a reaction to an antibiotic. It was a pretty serious case (SJS) and it a fairly life or death situation (he actually went into sepsis at one point during treatment and almost died). Instead of calling for an ambulance to the ER when he was really ill, he called an Uber (because that ambulance was OON). Then the hospital he went to couldn't treat him. So they had to get him to a different hospital pretty quickly. Luckily it was only ~40 miles away so he could go via ambulance (a different provider that was in network) instead of a life flight. But adding to this, his stay in the burn ward... the only way to stay alive mind you, was out of network and was initially denied. He had to sue to get it covered. He dealt with that situation for almost 2 years after the issue, and he's lucky that his dad is a doctor and well off... otherwise he might have been stuck with the bill to save his life. Which was high 6 figures.

While on a work assignment out of state, my now-ex nearly died from sepsis and was unknowingly admitted to an out-of-network hospital. At no point during the weeks long stay did anyone from the hospital say "your insurance is out of network, we need to move you to a different hospital", despite multiple in-network hospitals near by.

The bill was $325K, a life ruining amount. Fortunately it was knocked down to under $10K after years of fighting it, with the help of the California Department of Insurance.
 

henchman21

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One aspect of signing Toews for the maximum 8 years is that he has little wear and tear on his body for a player of his caliber and age. Under 400GP combined regular season and playoffs really isn’t all that much by the time you turn 30.

Ultimately, if we sign him to an 8 year contract, the last few years will be ugly no matter what. However, you’d hope that he has a few more elite years left than most other players his age because of the minimal toll on his body and so few injuries to speak of.
I've seen this stated a few times and it is almost like people just are ignoring that other leagues have wear and tear too. Yeah he will be under 400 NHL games, but he has over 100 NCAA games and 130 AHL games. Since his age 18 season he's played 685 games including playoffs. That is not an insignificant amount of time. If you look at Manson over the same timeframe to his ages... 722. That isn't much of a difference and Manson was regressing heavily at that point.

I honestly think you could argue that AHL wear and tear is harder on players than the NHL.
 
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Alienblood

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Ah I’m sorry to hear about that. Remember a lot of the issues are systemic - there are good people in health as a general statement they are just being stretched thin. I understand the frustration tho.

My sister had a seizure in November last year and had her drivers license taken away until she could get an MRI to prove she was good to drive. She was told 1-3 month time but with her profession that wasn’t an option so her husband drove her 8 hours and paid out of pocket to get one done. She got the call last week (9 months later) to schedule her for said MRI. How is that reasonable?
sorry to hear that and I hear ya but when 1 is waiting for a test that used to be done in said town and there is no longer anyone here to use the equipment to do the test it's pretty ridiculous. Now people wait to go to Halifax provincial wide and wait for a test ( over a year) that really doesn't matter as the surgery should be done anyways

Protocols I guess but like I told the doctor today , I'm having the damn surgery regardless so if you aren't gonna fix it I will go elsewhere, which is what I want anyhow but might put the wait even longer.

So now I wait for a test that really doesn't matter to me as I am having the surgery regardless.

so far I am 3 months on the list but don't expect the test for at least another 9 months which is totally ridiculous

Can't they send someone 2 hrs away or from 30.mins away in Moncton to come and do some tests to clean up a back log the area abd train someone ?

I had a similar test ( have to have 4 ) and the person doi g the test was asked to come here and train others for it but she flat out refused

in the meantime they book you for appointments just to make money, they don't really care how long you wait as it is nore m9ney for them with useless appointments.

So every one I go to now won't be fun for the doctor's as I will lay I to them evrytime.

I expect to be banned from the local hospital soon enough

If security even so much as lays a hand on me I'm swinging at them all no holds barred.

A buddy of mine works security out there and has told them all he is serious he absolutely 100% will hahahah.

my next appointment is on Oct 11th so we will see
 
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henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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To my fellow Canadians, yes our healthcare is a massive joke at times. But do you know who's healthcare systems is ranked worse than Canada's?


E. Better yet, if you want some real info: Mirror, Mirror 2021: Reflecting Poorly
And that's with the US spending significantly more per capita then any other country on healthcare. Money is not the issue..which is baffling.

The US spends a shitton of money on health care and that is partially due to providers being able to us the US to pay for costs. Saying that though, that infographic clearly illustrates the dichotomy of the US system. The actual care, when you get through the hurdles, is actually very good. Some of the best in the world. If you're willing to pay a ton, you will get very near the peak of care. The system just falls apart everywhere else with access, affordability, administrative issues.

My two biggest complaints about US health care isn't cost or care... it is transparency (networks namely) and that it is so heavily tied to employment.
 

nammerus

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The US spends a shitton of money on health care and that is partially due to providers being able to us the US to pay for costs. Saying that though, that infographic clearly illustrates the dichotomy of the US system. The actual care, when you get through the hurdles, is actually very good. Some of the best in the world. If you're willing to pay a ton, you will get very near the peak of care. The system just falls apart everywhere else with access, affordability, administrative issues.

My two biggest complaints about US health care isn't cost or care... it is transparency (networks namely) and that it is so heavily tied to employment.

100%. They’re at the forefront of basically all medical advancement. Only issue is that most of it is not available to the majority of the population.
 

Alienblood

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Nov 22, 2021
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Yeah, that's pretty much just free healthcare.
paid for by being taxed to death and waiting forever to get anything done.

Yup that’s me. I’m Canadian and would much prefer the American system. Paying 50-60 grand in taxes a year all so I can’t have a family doctor and have to sit in emergency rooms for 15 hours at a time if I need to see someone about something urgent.

If I lived in America I’d have insurance to cover almost all the same things except it wouldn’t cost me as much and I’d have the care I need when I need it.

Canadian health care is a privilege no doubt. But there’s a reason why the wealthy in our country travel south and pay for health care out of pocket when things get urgent.
well said, this 100%. At least I have a family doc for another year I guess
 
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NateTheGreat

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I've seen this stated a few times and it is almost like people just are ignoring that other leagues have wear and tear too. Yeah he will be under 400 NHL games, but he has over 100 NCAA games and 130 AHL games. Since his age 18 season he's played 685 games including playoffs. That is not an insignificant amount of time. If you look at Manson over the same timeframe to his ages... 722. That isn't much of a difference and Manson was regressing heavily at that point.

I honestly think you could argue that AHL wear and tear is harder on players than the NHL.
If you think NCAA and AHL games are equal to NHL in terms of wear and tear you’re mistaken. Don’t confuse fights and dirty plays in the AHL for more wear on a players body. If you’re skilled like Toews is, you won’t be taking those hits and you certainly won’t be fighting. NHL players are bigger, faster, stronger, therefore it is the league where you take the most punishment throughout a game. Ask any NHL defenseman if they’d rather face an AHL or NHL forecheck, the answer won’t surprise you.

In reference to Manson, he plays a completely different style of game than Toews, not to mention his laundry list of injuries.

Every professional hockey player plays games somewhere throughout their 20’s. Where they play them matters. It’s been stated multiple times that Toews has less wear and tear than most because it’s a fact.

Now I’m not saying he won’t regress due to his age, but I’m saying there is a chance that his body will hold up well for a guy in his 30’s.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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If you think NCAA and AHL games are equal to NHL in terms of wear and tear you’re mistaken. Don’t confuse fights and dirty plays in the AHL for more wear on a players body. If you’re skilled like Toews is, you won’t be taking those hits and you certainly won’t be fighting. NHL players are bigger, faster, stronger, therefore it is the league where you take the most punishment throughout a game. Ask any NHL defenseman if they’d rather face an AHL or NHL forecheck, the answer won’t surprise you.

In reference to Manson, he plays a completely different style of game than Toews, not to mention his laundry list of injuries.

Every professional hockey player plays games somewhere throughout their 20’s. Where they play them matters. It’s been stated multiple times that Toews has less wear and tear than most because it’s a fact.

Now I’m not saying he won’t regress due to his age, but I’m saying there is a chance that his body will hold up well for a guy in his 30’s.

AHL games absolutely wear on a player like NHL games. The pace is just as high, but is it more chaotic and physical. There is really zero evidence that NCAA players that go through the AHL on their path have any different aging curve than their immediately in the NHL counterparts. This has been studied extensively. There is evidence that Euros, especially Swedes and Russians that stay until they are 22-24 have a delay in the aging (1-2 years). This is likely due to their less physical leagues on bigger ice surfaces than the lower number of games. Though that is backing a reason into the data.

Yeah Manson plays differently, he just went the same path though and regressed.

There is certainly a chance his body holds up and he ages well. That chance exists with every player. With Toews specifically, we don't have a trend yet, but we do have a year where he already took a step back. He simply wasn't as good last season as 21-22. If he's not as good this season as 22-23, we'd have a trend and one that follows the norm. It could also be a one off and he's back to his 21-22 level this season. We won't know for a bit.
 

Alienblood

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Nov 22, 2021
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F*** the healthcare system in this country. Wait times are why my mom's cancer spread and lung deteriorated via pneumothorax.
Sorry to heaar that and yeah they don't seem to care. Having acid run up in your esophagus and throat and ears is not an emergency either. Only leads to cancer and have had 7 ear infection since February from silent reflux. besides not being able to swallow.

The pills they said to take everyday no longer work and are now saying only supposed to be used short term.

Now I have to run to an ENT besides the gastroenterologist every month cause I have ear pain and infection which he still hasn't done anything for.

Beyond pissed off I am fxxk the heathcare system as you say

Here's a misconception about US healthcare... foreigners think that you have insurance and it covers everything. That is actually far from the case. They'll deny for random reasons and make you jump through hoops to get procedures. Then you have to make sure your provider is in your network (and how difficult that is varies depending on provider), because if not, guess what? You pay double or more! If you go to the wrong urgent care, same thing. Go to the wrong ER and if the ER doesn't term it correctly, you might get the whole thing denied. And heaven forbid you get an ambulance or life flight... those are almost never covered, even if it is medically necessary to survive.

These little details of how coverage works are, in my opinion, the worst part of the US system. Worse than the costs, worse than the shitty rural doctors, worse than gotcha charges... the fact that you have to prepare for each and every instance of using it, including emergencies. If every hospital, doctor, nurse, ambulance, etc was forced in-network and it was a simple pay ___, have ___ out of pocket max, and you get coverage anywhere... I think there would be far less complaints about the US system. It would at least be transparent that way. Instead we have the similar waits, gotchas, fights, and we pay high amounts.

Three weird examples:

Right now I'm fighting with my insurance on getting a plate removed in my elbow. It was done as an emergency surgery, so wasn't the perfect operation. The plate rubs on a ligament hurting mobility, causing long-term damage that will eventually have to be repaired, and occasionally causes bursitis. These issues want me to have it removed. Yet despite 3 doctors agreeing it is medically necessary, my insurance won't allow a surgery to remove the plate. My options are basically pay 7500 for the procedure or live with it until the ligament fails and then insurance will cover it.

Another is my wife has a rare situation. She has early onset menopause where she is 36 and basically has no estrogen (and an number of other hormones). This causes all sort of issues longer term from elevated risk of stroke to osteoporosis. It is very well documented that estrogen and other hormone replacement therapies basically solve the long-term health consequences. Yet because she is under 40 and having this issue... insurance won't cover any hormone replacement costs. We have to pay out of pocket for these. Luckily we are well enough off we can afford the 1k bill every three months for the next few years until insurance will cover. But even after that, they will only cover estrogen up to a certain dosage. All the other hormones are not covered, nor is estrogen to get to normal levels, just to the bare minimum. Odds are high we will still have a ~5-600 bill in a few years instead of a thousand.

The last one... one of my friends got himself in a pickle. He loved an unclean woman, developed an infection, and then had a reaction to an antibiotic. It was a pretty serious case (SJS) and it a fairly life or death situation (he actually went into sepsis at one point during treatment and almost died). Instead of calling for an ambulance to the ER when he was really ill, he called an Uber (because that ambulance was OON). Then the hospital he went to couldn't treat him. So they had to get him to a different hospital pretty quickly. Luckily it was only ~40 miles away so he could go via ambulance (a different provider that was in network) instead of a life flight. But adding to this, his stay in the burn ward... the only way to stay alive mind you, was out of network and was initially denied. He had to sue to get it covered. He dealt with that situation for almost 2 years after the issue, and he's lucky that his dad is a doctor and well off... otherwise he might have been stuck with the bill to save his life. Which was high 6 figures.
we still have to do that in Canada.
protocols for surgeries and need approval from MSI , no guarantee they cover ot . same goes for my dental plan which is now switched without a choice to Canada Life
 

NateTheGreat

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Mar 19, 2012
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AHL games absolutely wear on a player like NHL games. The pace is just as high, but is it more chaotic and physical. There is really zero evidence that NCAA players that go through the AHL on their path have any different aging curve than their immediately in the NHL counterparts. This has been studied extensively. There is evidence that Euros, especially Swedes and Russians that stay until they are 22-24 have a delay in the aging (1-2 years). This is likely due to their less physical leagues on bigger ice surfaces than the lower number of games. Though that is backing a reason into the data.

Yeah Manson plays differently, he just went the same path though and regressed.

There is certainly a chance his body holds up and he ages well. That chance exists with every player. With Toews specifically, we don't have a trend yet, but we do have a year where he already took a step back. He simply wasn't as good last season as 21-22. If he's not as good this season as 22-23, we'd have a trend and one that follows the norm. It could also be a one off and he's back to his 21-22 level this season. We won't know for a bit.
Yeah that’s just wrong. AHL pace is not just as high as the NHL.

NHL players are bigger, faster, stronger. You’re confusing a more chaotic, dirty, unpredictable environment in the AHL for a more physical one when that is not the case. Agree to disagree on this one because this conversation won’t go anywhere if you think that way.

Obviously every players body has a chance to hold up well, the argument with Toews is that his has a better chance due to his relatively small amount of games played in the NHL, the way he plays the game and his lack of significant injury history. Yes, regression will come for him, like it does every player, but the hope is that the regression is slowed or mitigated to an extent with his body being in good shape.
 

missionAvs

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All I’m saying is healthcare qualify in US isn’t the best. Also like i mentioned, if you don’t have good coverage here, you’re dead. Other countries will give you the best treatment they have free of charge if you need it. That’s my point.

Not to get into a big argument or anything but there are pros and cons to things like healthcare in any country you go to. My completely anecdotal experience is that I received absolutely terrible healthcare on a trip to Germany when I misplaced my old Omnipod CGM (insulin pump for type 1 diabetics). I went to the hospital in Munich where I was staying and explained the situation to them and long story short, I had to go to the ER after I went into a pretty severe bout of ketoacidosis because they were "busy with paperwork" lol. After a few hours, what I presume was a resident walks into the room and asked me what I wanted. At that point, I just got my phone out and showed them a picture of a few insulin pens and told them I need a fast acting one and a slow acting one. Eventually they got me taken care of but it was quite the experience lol.

The only time a similar situation happened to me, I went to New York on a CE course and dumb old me forgot his vial of insulin at home. A quick call to my endocrinologist and she phoned in a prescription and I picked it up within like an hour without any lapse of medication time. To be clear, I wasn't expecting things to move like that while I was abroad but I was a little surprised it was allowed to escalate like that. I told that story to my old man who's an ER Doc here in the States and he was also surprised it went that far. Again, completely anecdotal so not really representative of the bigger picture.
 

NorthernAvsFan

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Jun 25, 2014
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Kinda going off the rails here… but I disagree strongly with the people blasting the Canadian health care system.

My brother lives in the States and he’s had a hard time paying off medical bills because of some of the stuff he’s had to pay for that would’ve been free in Canada. It’s a system that’s designed to benefit the rich and punishes the middle class and poor. One of the leading causes of debt in countries with private health care is health care costs.

I’ve had to go to the emerge a couple times for health issues and everything was free. No issues at all.

Sure, the wait times can be long sometimes, but in Canada you can just roll into any health clinic and see a doctor for free.
 

Ceremony

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Given how Toews plays in the NHL I would quite easily believe he strolled through AHL games in his slippers with a glass of brandy and a cigar in each hand, so I'm sure his body's absolutely fine.
 
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JH21

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Oct 20, 2019
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I don't think I could have said it better. These are all good reasons why I laughably rolled my eyes when I saw that some would prefer the American healthcare system vs. their own.

Now, I'm not saying that the Canadian system is better than ours or worse than ours, just that whatever Canadians is wrong with their system, there is something equally wrong w/ the American system.

Americans go bankrupt or even die having to choose between paying their medical bill(s) or basic living needs. Americans with diabetes get gouged on their life saving medicine (insulin).

I have stories from a co-worker of his daughter needing certain life-saving medication and they recount all the hoops they jump through to get the medicine covered, and once it does it only remains covered for a little bit before their insurance provider decides to no longer cover it and so they have to change medications; and then it's a fight to find a Dr who will prescribe something different, etc.

When Eloise (my now 6 year old daughter) was only 9 months old, she woke up one night scream crying in pain, and she had a fever of 104.5 degrees. And we didn't think, we took her to the nearest ER in our small-ish town, and it turned out that it wasn't a "full-fledged ER", and they could only give her a certain dosage of infant's Ibuprofen to try and break the fever and told us to follow-up with her pediatrician on Monday (this was a Saturday night, so we had to wait another full day).

Our bill for that? $2800. For, in essence, infants Ibuprofen. And believe me, when your 9 month old child, who can't talk to you, jerks themselves awake and lets out that wail, the type of cry that you know deep down in your bones means "Help me, mommy & daddy!", you will do whatever the f*** you can to get them help. You take them anywhere who will see them. Doesn't mean that the financial aftermath is less painful. You're just give a new type of stress trying to figure it out.


***EDIT***

I got a Kidney Stone randomly one night last year. Woke up in seething pain at 2:30 in the morning on a Monday-into-Tuesday. Started vomiting immediately and couldn't stop. My wife panicked and called 911 thinking I'd need an ambulance because every time I tried to stand up I was taken to my knees and would immediately vomit. I told her "no" on the ambulance because I knew that it would immediately be about $1000 just for that.

We drove to the nearest ER (different city), and was treated for it. But despite our insurance, we still have an Out Of Pocket amount to meet before the insurance "kicks in"...so it was about $2000 when all is said and done.

Oh...and I got another kidney stone 30 days later lol

I pay $4000 a month in taxes. I'd gladly take a bill for 2k at the hospital once a year than pay close to 50k in taxes a year.
 
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RockLobster

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I pay $4000 a month in taxes. I'd gladly take a bill for 2k at the hospital once a year than pay close to 50k in taxes a year.
But that's the thing man...my two stories are considered "minor incidents".

What happens when you break a bone and require more care? Or need an MRI that costs more money?

They gave my child infants ibuprofen and we were billed almost $3000. My kidney stone, all they did was a CT scan to confirm that's what it was, and it was still about $2000.

You start adding in things like broken bones, muscle tears that require surgery, or things like diabetic care if you have a flare up, or god forbid a heart attack or even cancer, you're going bankrupt with the way the US has their system set up. It's ridiculous.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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I'm not sure if Backlund would have been a deadline target anyway.

Sounded like they inquired about him before acquiring Johansen, and I'm not sure they'll have enough cap space at the deadline to do anything more than add a cheap RD or something.
 

Pokecheque

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The issue isn't so much figuring out how these medical bills get paid as it is the fact that medical costs keep rising, in some cases at an astronomical rate. Regulation has got to happen, not only in the pharmacological sector, but also medical supplies, and the fact that we have an insanely bloated, wasteful hospital system here in America. The ridiculous VA hospital in Aurora is a prime example--five f***ing years behind schedule and cost overruns of over $1 billion.

And since we're on the subject of insurance, is there any bigger racket out there than private insurance? Yes, they cover shit, but how the f*** is something like a deductible even legal!!!??!?!?!?

"Hey, here's your insurance card, don't forget to pay your monthly premiums."
"Okay, so how much of my medical bills will you cover?"
"None."
"What?"
"Yeah, you see, you gotta cover all expenses until you spend $5,000 of your own money."
"But I'm still paying premiums the whole time on top of that?"
"Yeah."
"Um...okay. So when I reach the $5,000 mark, you'll cover everything after that, right?"
"No."
"Are you f***ing kidding me!?"
"You see, once you meet your deductible, we'll cover expenses at 50%."
"What the f*** I gotta do in order for you to cover everything!?"
"Your expenses have to reach $10,000, that's your Out of Pocket Max."
"And I'm still paying premiums the whole time?"
"Yep! Oh and one more thing."
"What now?"
"After a year, you start over at zero."
 

RockLobster

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I'm not sure if Backlund would have been a deadline target anyway.

Sounded like they inquired about him before acquiring Johansen, and I'm not sure they'll have enough cap space at the deadline to do anything more than add a cheap RD or something.
They will have no cap space at the deadline. Any move will have to be money in/money out.
 
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