Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[PAZ]

I think if Toews was open to 60M over 8 years, the deal would be done, unless they're squabbling over movement protection or some such. I'm thinking he wants closer to 70M. I figure his side considers taking 68M over 8 years a bit of a discount for the Avs. 8.5M/year...considering how underpaid he's been, he's earned the chance at the bank, but the Avs giving it to him is going to make keeping Rants and any semblance of depth just *that* much harder.

You think he'd get $10 mil on the open market?

 

[niwotsblessing]

You think he'd get $10 mil on the open market?

Sure. Some dumb-ass GM will use it as proof that the rebuild is working.

 

[Ararana]

You think he'd get $10 mil on the open market?

The old f***er is probably asking for close to that here in Colorado.

Keeping Toews is going to be a massive mistake. You don't give a 30 year old a massive contract when you already have Makar and Byram and you still don't have the 2C position figured out past this year. That's not even considering Mikko is going to demand the moon next season.

 

[Avaholic29]

I just don't think the Avs will like the time table. They always work slow. A player threatening isn't going to help.

He isn’t threatening, a lot of players say this to prevent contract talks being a distraction in season.

 

[redacted]

The discounts talked about in these instances normally range from .25-1m per and are offset by an extra year.

 

[LOFIN]

So interestingly, the Avs released Mäenalanen because of NHL bureaucracy. He had a surgery for an upper body injury (maybe shoulder?) 4 months ago, but there's "an NHL rule" (CBA, or just accepted practice?) that states recovery time for said surgery is 5 months. Mäenalanen felt fine and fully healthy, but the Avs doctors disqualified him outright. So he signed in Switzerland, and has already played two games in for SCL Tigers.

Kaleva: Tästä syystä kultaleijonan NHL-sopimus revittiin – Totuus paljastui vasta Amerikassa

Saku Mäenalasen NHL-unelma vaihtui nopeasti Sveitsiin.

www.iltalehti.fi

 

[Valushkin]

Just sign #7 to 7 x 7.777 and get it over with

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I do hope they get a deal done prior to the start of the season. Let's just get things going the right way.

 

[Avs_19]

I say he gets the Lindholm deal. Get it done.

 

[Valushkin]

So interestingly, the Avs released Mäenalanen because of NHL bureaucracy. He had a surgery for an upper body injury (maybe shoulder?) 4 months ago, but there's "an NHL rule" (CBA, or just accepted practice?) that states recovery time for said surgery is 5 months. Mäenalanen felt fine and fully healthy, but the Avs doctors disqualified him outright. So he signed in Switzerland, and has already played two games in for SCL Tigers.

Kaleva: Tästä syystä kultaleijonan NHL-sopimus revittiin – Totuus paljastui vasta Amerikassa

Saku Mäenalasen NHL-unelma vaihtui nopeasti Sveitsiin.

www.iltalehti.fi

Healthcare in America

 

[redacted]

So interestingly, the Avs released Mäenalanen because of NHL bureaucracy. He had a surgery for an upper body injury (maybe shoulder?) 4 months ago, but there's "an NHL rule" (CBA, or just accepted practice?) that states recovery time for said surgery is 5 months. Mäenalanen felt fine and fully healthy, but the Avs doctors disqualified him outright. So he signed in Switzerland, and has already played two games in for SCL Tigers.

Kaleva: Tästä syystä kultaleijonan NHL-sopimus revittiin – Totuus paljastui vasta Amerikassa

Saku Mäenalasen NHL-unelma vaihtui nopeasti Sveitsiin.

www.iltalehti.fi

It is a bit trickier than a hard and fast rule. It really comes down to one key thing, any injury a PTO player sustains during camp is on the Avs to foot the bill for. To fix the injury, pay for lost wages, pay for recovery, etc. Each team has insurance policies for that. It is very standard for these insurance policies to have guidelines like recovery time built into them for them to fall under the coverage (IE they don't want a guy a month after a surgery getting re-injured and having to foot the bill). NHL wide these are pretty cut and dry sorts of things, so in a way it is a rule... just not formalized. In this case, Maenalanen's surgery meant he would be disqualified from coverage. Which gets to a communication breakdown somewhere. Did his agent not inform the Avs? Did the Avs not inform him of the timeframe? Easily either could be the case and completely without malice is possible too.

Now teams can say screw it and not have the coverage if they choose. There is nothing stopping them from taking that risk. If we were talking Kane here, I'd bet the Avs take the risk. For a guy who is unlikely to make the team anyway and if he does is a plug... the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Healthcare in America

This applies to Canadian teams too.

 

[Valushkin]

It is a bit trickier than a hard and fast rule. It really comes down to one key thing, any injury a PTO player sustains during camp is on the Avs to foot the bill for. To fix the injury, pay for lost wages, pay for recovery, etc. Each team has insurance policies for that. It is very standard for these insurance policies to have guidelines like recovery time built into them for them to fall under the coverage (IE they don't want a guy a month after a surgery getting re-injured and having to foot the bill). NHL wide these are pretty cut and dry sorts of things, so in a way it is a rule... just not formalized. In this case, Maenalanen's surgery meant he would be disqualified from coverage. Which gets to a communication breakdown somewhere. Did his agent not inform the Avs? Did the Avs not inform him of the timeframe? Easily either could be the case and completely without malice is possible too.

Now teams can say screw it and not have the coverage if they choose. There is nothing stopping them from taking that risk. If we were talking Kane here, I'd bet the Avs take the risk. For a guy who is unlikely to make the team anyway and if he does is a plug... the juice isn't worth the squeeze.


This applies to Canadian teams too.

I’m not familiar with Canadian healthcare but in America it’s a mess

 

[Muffin]

The old f***er is probably asking for close to that here in Colorado.

Keeping Toews is going to be a massive mistake. You don't give a 30 year old a massive contract when you already have Makar and Byram and you still don't have the 2C position figured out past this year. That's not even considering Mikko is going to demand the moon next season.

Or you keep the best team together for as long as possible while you're in your "window". Byram hasn't proven he can play a full season let alone be a top pairing D.

Rantanen won't make more than MacKinnon, I say he probably ends up at 11.5M or 12M, that's only about a 2M-3M raise.

 

[redacted]

I’m not familiar with Canadian healthcare but in America it’s a mess

I'm not saying US healthcare is not a mess... this situation just isn't a part of that debate.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The old f***er is probably asking for close to that here in Colorado.

Keeping Toews is going to be a massive mistake. You don't give a 30 year old a massive contract when you already have Makar and Byram and you still don't have the 2C position figured out past this year. That's not even considering Mikko is going to demand the moon next season.

Byram isn't anywhere close to the level of Toews.


Toews gives this group the best chance to win in the next couple of years. You move on from him, the team gets significantly worse. Simple as that really.

 

[redacted]

Or you keep the best team together for as long as possible while you're in your "window". Byram hasn't proven he can play a full season let alone be a top pairing D.

Rantanen won't make more than MacKinnon, I say he probably ends up at 11.5M or 12M, that's only about a 2M-3M raise.

Agree on the first part. Find a way to keep Toews and deal with the issues down the road.

Highly disagree on the second part. If the Avs won't pay Rants more, he simply walks.

 

[Muffin]

Agree on the first part. Find a way to keep Toews and deal with the issues down the road.

Highly disagree on the second part. If the Avs won't pay Rants more, he simply walks.

I can't see him asking more than MacKinnon, a 12Mx8 year is more than fair IMO.

 

[redacted]

I can't see him asking more than MacKinnon, a 12Mx8 year is more than fair IMO.

It isn't about fair, it is about the market. He's asked for more than MacKinnon once and shown he will push the boundaries to get paid. The market value is already 12+ and you still have two seasons to go where the cap is finally going to increase.

 

[Alienblood]

So Toews is giving the Avs a hard time limit. I don't think this will play out the way he hopes. To me it sounds like he's gone.

let him.walk

So Toews is giving the Avs a hard time limit. I don't think this will play out the way he hopes. To me it sounds like he's gone.

 

[Valushkin]

I'm not saying US healthcare is not a mess... this situation just isn't a part of that debate.

I mean it kinda is. From what I understand, Avs didn’t want to take the risk signing Marnalanem because they didn’t want to get the medical bill if something happened to him because 5 month initial recovery time hasn’t passed yet. It’s only been 4 months. That kinda falls into American healthcare and billing system and all that being a mess. If a person doesn’t have good medical coverage in US, he or she is basically dead if something happens to them, where other countries have free healthcare

 

[Alienblood]

If anything it sounds like a deal is pretty likely to get done.

Not that I necessarily trust Friedman with Avs stuff, but Friedman basically says Toews is willing to take less to stay with the Avs... That doesn't even sound remotely like a guy who's going to be gone.

it does.when he is shutting down talks. The Avs don't need to.rush this at all.

And if he doesn't like it then trade him and recoup assets for someone else

 

[Alienblood]

You think he'd get $10 mil on the open market?

he is overated cause he plays here

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

it does.when he is shutting down talks. The Avs don't need to.rush this at all.

And if he doesn't like it then trade him and recoup assets for someone else

You do that and there's a very, very high chance the window simply closes with this core. Byram has not shown anything meaningful to suggest he can replace Toews anytime soon. You make the team significantly worse today and by the time Byram maybe makes enough progress to replace Toews, were ~2 years down the road and this core is simply aged out of its contending window.


IMO the only scenario where moving on from Toews is the right one, is if the Avs decide themselves that the window with this group is closed andbl decide to get a head start on a retool with hopes of opening a new window in ~3 years with a mixed core of young new guys and a couple of the older guys here now(Mainly Mack). But that's obviously not a realistic option unless the wheels completely fall off the bus this year which feels pretty unlikely.

 

[redacted]

I mean it kinda does. From what I understand, Avs didn’t want to take the risk signing Marnalanem because they didn’t want to get the medical bill if something happened to him because 5 month initial recovery time hasn’t passed yet. It’s only been 4 months. That kinda falls to American healthcare and billing system and all that being a mess

You're missing the nuance here. All teams are exposed to massive medical bills through player injuries. All teams regardless of their country of origin are at the player's will for choice of surgeon. Regardless of nationality and where the injury happens, players get their choice of surgeon. They almost always choose US based doctors because the quality of the care is typically the highest. Especially with very specialized procedures with athletes. The ones who go to Canadian based doctors are for very specific specialties and fall into the the private side of the health care there... which those cases are actually more expensive than the US ones. I know of a couple players that went outside both and got surgeries in Germany and Japan for some very specific things too, but that is far less the norm. The players demand the absolute best care, no matter where in the world it comes from (and that is a negotiated right they have via the CBA). The exposure is to expensive procedures in general, not just the US based system. Athletes live in a different world of care than the rest of us in all countries. It is an area where quality matters more than anything else and they will seek to get the best care possible.

 

[Valushkin]

Toews has to shutdown the conversation during the season if Avs don’t sign him before the season starts so he can concentrate on hockey instead of negotiating all season and having that distraction. That doesn’t mean they won’t reopen the negotiations in the offseason.