2023-24 Roster Thread #8: A Cam York State of Mind

[Beef Invictus]

As I mentioned somewhere in the weekend, the Flyers still do not do much cross-ice passing at all. In exchange for this safety the D can be highly aggressive (good) but opposing goalies are rarely struggling to follow and anticipate play (less good. Still good though! I'm being positive). I also like that they do a lot more setting up shots from down low rather than the endless grind; again though, it comes with the caveat that these chances don't quite do much to challenge goalies; good xGF, bad actual GF. Which gets us back to what was said when Tortorella was hired; low ceiling, high floor coach. Fine if a GM is going to still sell and maximize chances to score a future in the draft, not fine if the GM will take the high floor as actual contending and hold on doing what needs doing.

Being optimistic, I'll decide I believe the Flyers have learned from their extensive history of always interpreting a high floor as being a high ceiling and thus everything will surely be OK. Also the earth hasn't had its oceans boiled away by a surprise gamma ray burst so today is a good day. Everything is good.

Edit: This also marks the first time in a very long time that a coach builds on what he did the year before instead of slowly caving in.

 

[TheKingPin]

It’s all collaborative. Same as before.

Not an excuse for Chuck, but he didn’t really control shit imo. Briere is the same. Hell in what logical world should Keith Jones have any say in what an organization does - yet here we are.

Makes a lot of sense why some men refused the job with the proposed power make up.

Yes has to be. All we can hope for is a person able to listen but not act on bad ideas and quietly do the right thing knowing the results will smooth anything over in the end anyway. Still hoping that for Briere till Clarke goes away.

 

[deadhead]

If we're looking for influences in the shadows, I'd bet Kimmo has far more influence over Briere than Clarke.

 

[VladDrag]

As I mentioned somewhere in the weekend, the Flyers still do not do much cross-ice passing at all. In exchange for this safety the D can be highly aggressive (good) but opposing goalies are rarely struggling to follow and anticipate play (less good. Still good though! I'm being positive). I also like that they do a lot more setting up shots from down low rather than the endless grind; again though, it comes with the caveat that these chances don't quite do much to challenge goalies; good xGF, bad actual GF. Which gets us back to what was said when Tortorella was hired; low ceiling, high floor coach. Fine if a GM is going to still sell and maximize chances to score a future in the draft, not fine if the GM will take the high floor as actual contending and hold on doing what needs doing.

Being optimistic, I'll decide I believe the Flyers have learned from their extensive history of always interpreting a high floor as being a high ceiling and thus everything will surely be OK. Also the earth hasn't had its oceans boiled away by a surprise gamma ray burst so today is a good day. Everything is good.

Edit: This also marks the first time in a very long time that a coach builds on what he did the year before instead of slowly caving in.

For reference, the Flyers are 27th in shots off high danger passes (All Three Zones metric -- passes from behind the net (or the goal line) or passes that cross the slot from the faceoff circles down), and 25th in center lane assists.

 

[FlyerNutter]

If we're looking for influences in the shadows, I'd bet Kimmo has far more influence over Briere than Clarke.

Hanrahan
Flahr
McCauley
Advisors: Barber, Clarke, Homer, Lombardi, Murray, LeClair, Sharp
Player Development: Schultz, Armstrong, Morin, Stewart, Kapanen
Dave Brown

But yes. Timonen is more of an influencer for this dogshit organization

Thank goodness Briere is indeed a fresh voice to lead us to the promise land.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For reference, the Flyers are 27th in shots off high danger passes (All Three Zones metric -- passes from behind the net (or the goal line) or passes that cross the slot from the faceoff circles down), and 25th in center lane assists.

So my eye test isn't a disaster on this

 

[freakydallas13]

What power struggle? Maybe Torts is parroting what DB is saying? Just as credible as a take.

Have you seen anything to suggest that they don't have a coherent plan and don't agree on their general strategy?

How about when Torts said he wasn't going to play Zamula to try and develop him at the expense of winning?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Actually something I missed.

The “new” director of Flyers scouting department.

Mike Eastwood. Guess where he worked prior, and who must have recommended him

 

[deadhead]

For reference, the Flyers are 27th in shots off high danger passes (All Three Zones metric -- passes from behind the net (or the goal line) or passes that cross the slot from the faceoff circles down), and 25th in center lane assists.

They have one playmaking center, and he's better in open ice than passing through tight windows.

Their best playmaking forward is in the AHL, still adjusting to the speed and physicality of the pro games.

Who else is a plus passer? Farabee and TK can make plays but it's not their primary skill. Foerster has some promise, but again, not his strongest skill. Same with Couts.

Even among D-men, Drysdale is probably the only one with potential as a playmaker, Sanheim's strength is his speed through the neutral zone and entries, once in the O-zone he's pretty average. York has been a disappoint offensively so far, Walker is another speed guy with average offensive skills.

Then we have Tippett, Cates, Poehling, Laughton, Hathaway, Seeler, Risto, Zamula, etc.

And watching them, it's pretty obvious they struggle with making high danger passes and finishing plays.

 

[deadhead]

How about when Torts said he wasn't going to play Zamula to try and develop him at the expense of winning?

How about when Zamula looked clueless early in the season?
Since then he's played 18 of the last 20 games, Torts went to 7 D-men to keep him in the lineup after they added Drysdale.

 

[freakydallas13]

How about when Zamula looked clueless early in the season?
Since then he's played 18 of the last 20 games, Torts went to 7 D-men to keep him in the lineup after they added Drysdale.

This does not address what I brought up. Danny said this is a rebuild, and Torts says he doesn't care about development at the expense of wins. These two things are mutually exclusive.

The only way you can argue against this is to claim your definition of a rebuild is one that cares more about current wins than it does development.

 

[deadhead]

This does not address what I brought up. Danny said this is a rebuild, and Torts says he doesn't care about development at the expense of wins. These two things are mutually exclusive.

The only way you can argue against this is to claim your definition of a rebuild is one that cares more about current wins than it does development.

Throwing a player to the wolves when they're not ready isn't "development." It's how you set player back. Brink's last 15 games he had a xGF% of 35% when the team was around 50% - obviously he was over his head. Zamula struggled early in the season, Torts was patient, let him get comfortable, then played him on a regular basis.

Foester just turned 22, yet he's 3rd among forwards in 5x5 minutes, because he quickly adjusted to the pro game after a season in the AHL. xGF% 57.39% is tops among forwards, HDCF% 59.39% is 3rd among forwards (after Cates and Frost). This is why Torts is patient with his struggles to finish, b/c he does everything else at a high level (some sites rate him at 100% on defense).

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[freakydallas13]

Throwing a player to the wolves when they're not ready isn't "development." It's how you set player back. Brink's last 15 games he had a xGF% of 35% when the team was around 50% - obviously he was over his head. Zamula struggled early in the season, Torts was patient, let him get comfortable, then played him on a regular basis.

Foester just turned 22, yet he's 3rd among forwards in 5x5 minutes, because he quickly adjusted to the pro game after a season in the AHL. xGF% 57.39% is tops among forwards, HDCF% 59.39% is 3rd among forwards (after Cates and Frost). This is why Torts is patient with his struggles to finish, b/c he does everything else at a high level (some sites rate him at 100% on defense).

Different strokes for different folks.

"Throwing a player to the wolves" isn't development, you can develop players without doing that. Torts didn't say he's not "throwing a player to the wolves" at the expense of wins, he said he's not developing players at the expense of wins.

You asked for an example where Briere and Torts don't see eye to eye. This is an example of that.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

"Throwing a player to the wolves" isn't development, you can develop players without doing that. Torts didn't say he's not "throwing a player to the wolves" at the expense of wins, he said he's not developing players at the expense of wins.

You asked for an example where Briere and Torts don't see eye to eye. This is an example of that.

Torts literaly just said he wants wins over the roster rebuild..

 

[Fight4yourRight]

If we're looking for influences in the shadows, I'd bet Kimmo has far more influence over Briere than Clarke.

What are we basing this on? That they were once close teammates?

 

[BiggE]

Repeat after me, the Flyers do not rebuild.

If they say they are rebuilding, they are lying. They will retool, tinker and take the occasional small step back to try and take a slightly bigger step forward, but they NEVER rebuild.

The sooner everyone realizes this, the happier they will be.

A rebuilding team trades Laughton and Seeler last year. A rebuilding team doesn’t sign Nic D to a 4 year deal.

The Flyers will rebuild when politicians vote for term limits and to reduce spending or when pigs fly.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Torts literaly just said he wants wins over the roster rebuild..

That is not what he "literaly" said.

 

[deadhead]

What are we basing this on? That they were once close teammates?

Yeah. I mean Briere probably has spoken 3 sentences to Clarke in his lifetime. Same with the other advisors. Have you heard a single word about them at all this season? And what connection does Briere have with them? They're more likely to interact with Jones.

Kimmo has strong opinions about what should be done, and you'd think they talk occasionally simply as former teammates. They were teammates for 6 seasons. Given that Briere has brought Sharp and LeClair into the fold, I think he'd find a role for Kimmo if he wanted one. Briere strikes me as someone who'd welcome input from former players he respects.

Flyers Legend Timonen Says He Can Fix Power Play: ‘Any offers Danny B?’

No need to worry; help is on the way for the Philadelphia Flyers! Ok… not really. On Monday night, Drunk Gritty (@DrunkGritty00) shared a video on X/Twitter that Flyers legend Kimmo Timonen first posted to Instagram, wherein Timonen is in a Flyers Training Center locker room with Brian Boucher...

phillyhockeynow.com

 

[Magua]

Yeah. I mean Briere probably has spoken 3 sentences to Clarke in his lifetime.

Holy pulled out your keister conjecture, Batman!

They never do what Kimmo talks about anyway. How about Keith Jones? Has he probably only talked to Clarke five times over ham radio?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Yeah. I mean Briere probably has spoken 3 sentences to Clarke in his lifetime.

Deady, um. I don't want to say too much about personal lives, but no. Just no. Really no.

Believe what you want about who has power and all of that. But this is not a track you should take.

 

[scumpup]

As I mentioned somewhere in the weekend, the Flyers still do not do much cross-ice passing at all. In exchange for this safety the D can be highly aggressive (good) but opposing goalies are rarely struggling to follow and anticipate play (less good. Still good though! I'm being positive). I also like that they do a lot more setting up shots from down low rather than the endless grind; again though, it comes with the caveat that these chances don't quite do much to challenge goalies; good xGF, bad actual GF. Which gets us back to what was said when Tortorella was hired; low ceiling, high floor coach. Fine if a GM is going to still sell and maximize chances to score a future in the draft, not fine if the GM will take the high floor as actual contending and hold on doing what needs doing.

Being optimistic, I'll decide I believe the Flyers have learned from their extensive history of always interpreting a high floor as being a high ceiling and thus everything will surely be OK. Also the earth hasn't had its oceans boiled away by a surprise gamma ray burst so today is a good day. Everything is good.

Edit: This also marks the first time in a very long time that a coach builds on what he did the year before instead of slowly caving in.

Torts is so stubborn he will play his way. Players and org are bought in because they're desperate for the team to have "A way". Locker room is good and gets along. If this is what our rebuild looks like, better than the alternatives like AV/CF years of divided lockerroom and aimless shit hockey. Will torts get us #1 OA? no. Will he get us a playoff win? Unlikely. Doing nothing is better than doing something bad.

 

[deadhead]

Do we ever see Briere with advisors? Ever?

Jones is the schmoozer, and I suspect one reason he got the job is his ability to placate the alumni, something Hilferty stressed when he took over the reins from Scott. Jones has said literally nothing to suggest he's following the "old Flyers" template, instead he goes out of his way to endorse Briere's decisions. I'll bet he's the one who interacts with advisors, nodding his head, saying we'll consider that . . .

Just don't buy into "conspiracy theories," the triumverate seems to be firmly on the same page. Maybe there is a falling out after they get to the CF finals (their version of the battle of Actium), but for now they seem as on message as the senior officials of the Chinese Communist party.

 

[DancingPanther]

For reference, the Flyers are 27th in shots off high danger passes (All Three Zones metric -- passes from behind the net (or the goal line) or passes that cross the slot from the faceoff circles down), and 25th in center lane assists.

Dump and chase. Shots from the point. This is how you win hockey games. You battle.

Said some teams in 1995

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Repeat after me, the Flyers do not rebuild.

If they say they are rebuilding, they are lying. They will retool, tinker and take the occasional small step back to try and take a slightly bigger step forward, but they NEVER rebuild.

The sooner everyone realizes this, the happier they will be.

A rebuilding team trades Laughton and Seeler last year. A rebuilding team doesn’t sign Nic D to a 4 year deal.

The Flyers will rebuild when politicians vote for term limits and to reduce spending or when pigs fly.

Yeah I think we see a minor tear down at most. I just can’t see it

 

[Cody Webster]

Wasting a post so my next post is at the top of the page