2023-24 Roster Thread #8: A Cam York State of Mind

[usahockey22flyers]

Can't we trade Seeler and just sign him to a 2 year deal in the summer if we like him so much

 

[BiggE]

There is absolutely zero f***ing reason to give Nick Seeler a 3rd year or anything over 2.5M per (and quite frankly it should be less than that… more like 2 max).

Would be a completely boneheaded move.

So basically it’s a done deal?

 

[BiggE]

Torts adores Seeler. With the pull that fossilized piece of crap has in this organization there is no doubt in my mind that they are preparing a 3 year, 7.5 million offer.

At least they’ll trade Walker, probably. And maybe Laughton if we’re lucky.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Torts adores Seeler. With the pull that fossilized piece of crap has in this organization there is no doubt in my mind that they are preparing a 3 year, 7.5 million offer.

At least they’ll trade Walker, probably. And maybe Laughton if we’re lucky.

yup and trade Frost for a 25 5th rnd pick

 

[volnoir]

Smart teams sell high. Dumb teams buy high. We all know what the Flyers are going to do here

Did the Flyers buy high or low on Drysdale? Did the Flyers sell high or low on Cutter?

 

[BillDineen]

Should we package Walker and Seeler for a first? No, let's resign Seeler and then hold out for a first for Walker and then just keep him as a "reward" to the players

 

[BillDineen]

From Torts:

 

[DancingPanther]

Did the Flyers buy high or low on Drysdale? Did the Flyers sell high or low on Cutter?

We both know that situation is completely different, but is also a product of managments's hubris and stupidity

 

[Flyer lurker]

Should we package Walker and Seeler for a first? No, let's resign Seeler and then hold out for a first for Walker and then just keep him as a "reward" to the players

jvr says hi

 

[TheKingPin]

Smart teams sell high. Dumb teams buy high. We all know what the Flyers are going to do here

I was REALLY hoping Briere would be different. I am still holding out that if they sign Seeler it’s sub 2 mill and it’s contingent on trading Walker and or Risto. Trading both of those two and signing Seeler to 2 x 1.9 is good to me.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I was REALLY hoping Briere would be different. I am still holding out that if they sign Seeler it’s sub 2 mill and it’s contingent on trading Walker and or Risto. Trading both of those two and signing Seeler to 2 x 1.9 is good to me.

It’s all collaborative. Same as before.

Not an excuse for Chuck, but he didn’t really control shit imo. Briere is the same. Hell in what logical world should Keith Jones have any say in what an organization does - yet here we are.

Makes a lot of sense why some men refused the job with the proposed power make up.

 

[wankstifier]

8 regulation wins in their last 32. Currently on a 5 game losing streak in which the opposition has scored 23 goals, excluding empty netters. Throw in the damn towel, dummies

 

[VladDrag]

How the Florida Panthers built a Defensive Juggernaut for Cheap

Using active and aggressive defensemen, who wield a variety of modern defensive concepts, who are insulated by talented possession-driven forwards

pocketcbj.substack.com

Interesting read on the Panthers' system.
Seems the Flyers are incorporating some of this with their D-men, read toward the end, D-men and the forecheck.

It's a fun Panthers systems breakdown. The article's premise is not exactly earth-shattering for those that have a good handle on hockey systems, but if you don't a decent understanding -- read this article.


This quote in particular sums up the entire point of the article IMO ver well.

"Here, the Panthers are aware that possession and territory, by building from Offensive Zone Possession backwards a la Belfry, are the best ways at eliminating high danger chances against, rather than worrying about the specifics of coverage. If you’ve allowed a high-danger chance against there are a litany of mistakes made prior to the chance, including letting the opposition have the puck in the first place."

And, as you said DH, the Flyers are incorporating some of this into their play. The difference is that Torts probably has the Flyers 'turn back' (as he calls it) earlier rather than FLA. In other words, the Flyers are aggressive in forecheck in the offensive zone to a certain point, but once they decide they can't get the puck, they 'turn back' to backchecking/clogging the NZ.

The other big difference between the Flyers and the Panthers is the level of skill. In the one clipped video in the Neutral Zone Re-entry Section, you see Tkachuk, Lundell, Verhaeghe all basically one touch pass (not really, but the puck is passed 4 times in 2 seconds) to each other following a NZ turnover. Most of the Flyers forwards would have just banged the puck into the offensive corner and went to the forecheck. The Flyers lack the ability to extend plays like this.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

From Torts:

View attachment 814843

This sort of screams Konecny to me....

 

[Flyerfan4life]

From Torts:

View attachment 814843

lol you can clearly see Torts is above DB in the power struggle..

#neverchangeFlyers..

 

[deadhead]

It's a fun Panthers systems breakdown. The article's premise is not exactly earth-shattering for those that have a good handle on hockey systems, but if you don't a decent understanding -- read this article.

The other big difference between the Flyers and the Panthers is the level of skill. In the one clipped video in the Neutral Zone Re-entry Section, you see Tkachuk, Lundell, Verhaeghe all basically one touch pass (not really, but the puck is passed 4 times in 2 seconds) to each other following a NZ turnover. Most of the Flyers forwards would have just banged the puck into the offensive corner and went to the forecheck. The Flyers lack the ability to extend plays like this.

Which probably explains why Torts is more conservative, when you have a lot of skill up front, you can be more aggressive - one thing that stands out with the Flyers is they do create turnovers and maintain possession in the O-zone, but they're more likely to turn the puck over without creating a HDSC. It's not that he doesn't want entries with possession, or quick exit passes out of the D-zone, but you need skilled, experienced players to pull that off consistently.

Note the article mentioned Drysdale as one of those D-men trained to play in this kind of system in Anaheim. Sanheim leads the league in forechecking by D-men.

 

[VladDrag]

Which probably explains why Torts is more conservative, when you have a lot of skill up front, you can be more aggressive - one thing that stands out with the Flyers is they do create turnovers and maintain possession in the O-zone, but they're more likely to turn the puck over without creating a HDSC. It's not that he doesn't want entries with possession, or quick exit passes out of the D-zone, but you need skilled, experienced players to pull that off consistently.

Torts has always been a more conservative coach, and I don't know if he would ever want to fully 'attack' in the defensive zone a la Florida. However, he has allowed them to open up a bit more this year than last. The Flyers do a great job at creating NZ turnovers, and are very good at rush offense. I don't know if they do a great job of offensive zone turnovers.

Another part of this discussion regarding the trend towards aggressive forechecking and 'exit kill' as described in the article, is that that it makes makes it harder to establish offensive zone pressure. And so, the ability to generate a high-quality scoring chances off the cycle is becoming more and more important. Once you get the puck, you need to control it, and find an avenue to the net. This is why I have issues with volume shooting, for example.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Can't we trade Seeler and just sign him to a 2 year deal in the summer if we like him so much

Nope. Once they leave they can’t be a f***ing Flyer again.

 

[deadhead]

lol you can clearly see Torts is above DB in the power struggle..

#neverchangeFlyers..

What power struggle? Maybe Torts is parroting what DB is saying? Just as credible as a take.

Have you seen anything to suggest that they don't have a coherent plan and don't agree on their general strategy?

 

[deadhead]

Torts has always been a more conservative coach, and I don't know if he would ever want to fully 'attack' in the defensive zone a la Florida. However, he has allowed them to open up a bit more this year than last. The Flyers do a great job at creating NZ turnovers, and are very good at rush offense. I don't know if they do a great job of offensive zone turnovers.

Another part of this discussion regarding the trend towards aggressive forechecking and 'exit kill' as described in the article, is that that it makes makes it harder to establish offensive zone pressure. And so, the ability to generate a high-quality scoring chances off the cycle is becoming more and more important. Once you get the puck, you need to control it, and find an avenue to the net. This is why I have issues with volume shooting, for example.

Volume shooting requires bodies in front of the net, if you don't have the skill to make plays in the O-zone, the next best thing is to get big bodies to screen the goalie and put rebounds in the net. This is why even on good teams, bottom six lines tend to follow this strategy, even the best teams struggle to field more than two skillful lines.

The advent of the offensive defenseman as a norm, not an exception, also changes strategy. With an offenseman who can provide another playmaker, instead of hanging out at the blue paint, lines can carry one "mucker" and still have plenty of skill on the ice - but it requires more discipline b/c the forwards have to know when to cycle back.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Which probably explains why Torts is more conservative,

 

[VladDrag]

Volume shooting requires bodies in front of the net, if you don't have the skill to make plays in the O-zone, the next best thing is to get big bodies to screen the goalie and put rebounds in the net. This is why even on good teams, bottom six lines tend to follow this strategy, even the best teams struggle to field more than two skillful lines.

The advent of the offensive defenseman as a norm, not an exception, also changes strategy. With an offenseman who can provide another playmaker, instead of hanging out at the blue paint, lines can carry one "mucker" and still have plenty of skill on the ice - but it requires more discipline b/c the forwards have to know when to cycle back.

I don't agree. One of the main takeaways from that article is the fact that possession prevents HDSCs against.

Blindly shooting the puck into a host of players is inviting a 50-50 puck situation. You're basically giving the opposition exactly what they want, a chance to turn the puck over and get it into your end.

 

[deadhead]

I don't agree. One of the main takeaways from that article is the fact that possession prevents HDSCs against.

Blindly shooting the puck into a host of players is inviting a 50-50 puck situation. You're basically giving the opposition exactly what they want, a chance to turn the puck over and get it into your end.

I'm against "blindly shooting the puck," which is why I hate when D-men try to slap shot pucks on net, one thing that impressed me by Zamula on the PP was his ability to fire accurate wrist shots through crowds and get them on net. The two keys to the high volume shooting strategy are bodies in front of the net and learning to shoot accurate wrist shots without a "tell" that allows D-men to block them (and block shots tend to turn the puck over).

However, even worse than blindly shooting (except slap shots that miss the net and bounce back down the ice) are cross ice passes that are intercepted, trying to set up plays in the slot - because they quickly flip the ice (same with turnovers at the blue line when a D-man holds the puck too long). Which is why you don't let less skilled passers or players who lack offensive vision (i.e. can't see when a lane is blocked) try and make those plays on a regular basis.

 

[Beef Invictus]

From Torts:

View attachment 814843

Flyers as usual, they think they can do both and will do neither.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Flyers as usual, they think they can do both and will do neither.

its almost like nothing has changed..

weird considering we are on year 2 of a real rebuild.. hahahaaaa