2023-24 Roster Thread #8: A Cam York State of Mind

[molotce]

HEY FELLA, IT'S JUST A PLAY ON WORDS OFF THE PHRASE "NEW YORK STATE OF MIND", WHICH IS A SAYING POPULARIZED MOSTLY THROUGH POP MUSIC. FIRST, BY BILLY JOEL IN 1976 WITH THE SONG "NEW YORK STATE OF MIND", THEN IN 1996 WITH A SONG OF THE SAME NAME BY POPULAR RAPPER NAS, AND FINALLY IN 2009 WITH "EMPIRE STATE OF MIND" BY JAY-Z AND ALICIA KEYS. THE SAYING INVOKES PRIDE FROM BEING FROM NEW YORK CITY. IN THIS CASE, IT'S A SILLY POP CULTURE PUN USING THE NAME OF A CURRENT FLYERS PLAYER.

Ok thanks for the info

 

[DancingPanther]

Ok thanks for the info

No prob

 

[renberg]

Helge Grans, another player that just so happens to be a (big) RHD. I mean......c'mon. They clearly prioritized that above all else. Recent 35th overall to boot. I’ve said since that trade they probably passed up a better asset (a 2nd?) for Grans.

The whole thing with that deal was to ditch Provorov and pick up a first round pick. Taking on Grans and Peterson was part of the costs to get the job done. Grans was a RHD who had had a decent +1 season; size and potential. He’ll probably end up a third pairing guy; hopefully better than Hagg or Ginning. It’s the cost of doing business.

 

[deadhead]

Helge Grans, another player that just so happens to be a (big) RHD. I mean......c'mon. They clearly prioritized that above all else. Recent 35th overall to boot. I’ve said since that trade they probably passed up a better asset (a 2nd?) for Grans.

I doubt it was a 2nd or Grans, Grans stock had fallen in the Kings organization after regressing his 2nd season in NA, more likely a 4th or Grans. But he's still only 21 so no reason not to be patient. Stockpiling young D-men is an alternative to stockpiling the Connautons and Belpedios of this world.

 

[deadhead]

Weird the Flyers have had such a hard time finding RHD, considering it's their number 1 obsession the last 5 or so years and they keep acquiring almost entirely those.

You'd think they are super common the rate the Flyers acquire them.

Who have they acquired:

Risto, who has significantly improved under Shaw, but still "Fletcher's folly"
Drysdale, Gauthier trade, #6 pick
Bonk, #22, playing above expectations
Attard, 3rd rd pick, late bloomer
Samson, 5th rd pick
Sotheran, 5th rd pick
Mann, 7th rd pick

Grans, throw-in in the Provorov trade
Walker, throw-in, primarily a cap dump, in Provorov trade
Belpedio, AHL+ with below average NHL speed

LHD
Sanheim #17
York #14
Zamula UDFA
Andrae #52
Ginning #50
Millman 4th rd
Zanetti 4th rd
Muchison 5th rd
McDonald 6th rd

Seeler - AHL+ who developed into a 3rd pair D-man
Mete - AHL+
Staal - warm body

 

[Larry44]

There is no signs of a rebuild. So they drafted players who may be here while the coach who crafted this philosophy will be likely gone.

Those goalies will also be years away if they ever make it. They in a way panicked. Maybe they thought they were the PBA, though I doubt it. Seeing the possible Russian angle the possibility exist that goalie may not be here for a long time. Fowler would have been a better goalie pick.

Picking a guy in the 4th rd will not get a scout fired either. Unless his track record is putrid.

Was Drysdale really targeted? Seems they offered Cutter to Montreal first as well as to Colorado.

Drysdale was the obtainable target of the many teams they spoke to on a team that wanted to deal. Habs wouldn’t give 5th pick; Avs said no to Byram. Torts said they’d been looking at video of Drysdale for 6 months, so it wasn’t a rushed process. Cutting your losses is a sad project.

 

[Larry44]

The whole thing with that deal was to ditch Provorov and pick up a first round pick. Taking on Grans and Peterson was part of the costs to get the job done. Grans was a RHD who had had a decent +1 season; size and potential. He’ll probably end up a third pairing guy; hopefully better than Hagg or Ginning. It’s the cost of doing business.

Grans also looked good at WJC paired with Andrae, so they would have seen him in his draft year. I hope he develops, has the tools.

 

[FlyerNutter]

3rd pairing defensemen, and middle 6 forwards.

Flyer speciality.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Drysdale was the obtainable target of the many teams they spoke to on a team that wanted to deal. Habs wouldn’t give 5th pick; Avs said no to Byram. Torts said they’d been looking at video of Drysdale for 6 months, so it wasn’t a rushed process. Cutting your losses is a sad project.

Again no issue with the trade as looks like he did the best he could and the potential is there to be solid contributor going forward. When people push a narrative is where it gets muddled.

I am sure they looked at film on may players. As that is their job. Def not rushed as they clearly knew for what 6/8 months he wanted out.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I doubt it was a 2nd or Grans, Grans stock had fallen in the Kings organization after regressing his 2nd season in NA, more likely a 4th or Grans. But he's still only 21 so no reason not to be patient. Stockpiling young D-men is an alternative to stockpiling the Connautons and Belpedios of this world.

Nothing wrong with taking a flyer on a player like that. You penciling him in as future NHL defenseman is what is the issue.

Have any of the LHV defenseman taken a step forward this year? I have seen a handful of games and no one has stood out in anyway to say yep NHL defensemen in a few years.

The old rule was if you do not make to the NHL within 3 years of turning pro (AHL - excluding Europe) you likely never will.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Who have they acquired:

Risto, who has significantly improved under Shaw, but still "Fletcher's folly"
Drysdale, Gauthier trade, #6 pick
Bonk, #22, playing above expectations
Attard, 3rd rd pick, late bloomer
Samson, 5th rd pick
Sotheran, 5th rd pick
Mann, 7th rd pick

Grans, throw-in in the Provorov trade
Walker, throw-in, primarily a cap dump, in Provorov trade
Belpedio, AHL+ with below average NHL speed

LHD
Sanheim #17
York #14
Zamula UDFA
Andrae #52
Ginning #50
Millman 4th rd
Zanetti 4th rd
Muchison 5th rd
McDonald 6th rd

Seeler - AHL+ who developed into a 3rd pair D-man
Mete - AHL+
Staal - warm body

Risto has not significant improved. He plays the least minutes of the defenseman. Does that not tell you anything? The way the coach used his defenseman is why the alleged improvement. Risto is an overpaid 3rd pair player. That is all he will ever be going forward,

Attard is going to be 25 next month. Please tell me how he is a late bloomer.

 

[Don Nachbaur 26]

Read this morning that Seeler is looking for Schenn type money. I understand he wants to set his family up, but oof. Hope he gets the bag somewhere else. Seems like a good dude, just overpricing himself for his play style.

 

[renberg]

Wanting and deserving are two different things. Seeler is a third pairing player at best. That he can play either side on defense and is willing to block shots is nice but not warranting the kind of money/term that his camp is after.
Trade him DB. He’s replaceable. Like with TDA, let him be another franchise’s problem.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Read this morning that Seeler is looking for Schenn type money. I understand he wants to set his family up, but oof. Hope he gets the bag somewhere else. Seems like a good dude, just overpricing himself for his play style.

That’s kind of why I want no parts of extending him. I don’t blame him, this is a financial opportunity that doesn’t really come around often for player’s of his ilk so I understand wanting to cash out on it. I just don’t want to be the team that hands him the contract especially given it’s apparently a rebuild & spots should be opened up for younger player.

He’s accrued $3.4M in contracts so far in his career according to Cap Friendly. At age 30 (he’ll be 31 at the start of next season) he has a legit chance to double that in his next contract.

 

[Flyer lurker]

HEY FELLA, IT'S JUST A PLAY ON WORDS OFF THE PHRASE "NEW YORK STATE OF MIND", WHICH IS A SAYING POPULARIZED MOSTLY THROUGH POP MUSIC. FIRST, BY BILLY JOEL IN 1976 WITH THE SONG "NEW YORK STATE OF MIND", THEN IN 1996 WITH A SONG OF THE SAME NAME BY POPULAR RAPPER NAS, AND FINALLY IN 2009 WITH "EMPIRE STATE OF MIND" BY JAY-Z AND ALICIA KEYS. THE SAYING INVOKES PRIDE FROM BEING FROM NEW YORK CITY. IN THIS CASE, IT'S A SILLY POP CULTURE PUN USING THE NAME OF A CURRENT FLYERS PLAYER.

Well at least we didn't use
angry young man
stiletto

1st half of season
its just a fantasy

for sure not use pertaining to flusher's term
you may be right


hopefully last 5 games no one is turning to
captain jack

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Wanting and deserving are two different things. Seeler is a third pairing player at best. That he can play either side on defense and is willing to block shots is nice but not warranting the kind of money/term that his camp is after.
Trade him DB. He’s replaceable. Like with TDA, let him be another franchise’s problem.

One thing with Seeler is he will not be your typical soon to be 31 years old. In terms pro games played. Not a ton of usage on his body. He is a top 6 defenseman on any NHL team.

He absolutely needs to be traded. That is how you acquire assets needed to rebuild.

 

[Larry44]

Wanting and deserving are two different things. Seeler is a third pairing player at best. That he can play either side on defense and is willing to block shots is nice but not warranting the kind of money/term that his camp is after.
Trade him DB. He’s replaceable. Like with TDA, let him be another franchise’s problem.

Seeler can go then. OK as cheap depth, 7D on a contender.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Read this morning that Seeler is looking for Schenn type money. I understand he wants to set his family up, but oof. Hope he gets the bag somewhere else. Seems like a good dude, just overpricing himself for his play style.

Any link for that as curious to read.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

Seeler can go then. OK as cheap depth, 7D on a contender.

Every team needs some type of grit on the backend.

Seeler won't be blocking anyone because he's a really good bottom pair PKer who can probably be had for 3yr/ 2.25-3 per year. I think he's definitely worty that

 

[freakydallas13]

Who have they acquired:

Risto, who has significantly improved under Shaw, but still "Fletcher's folly"
Drysdale, Gauthier trade, #6 pick
Bonk, #22, playing above expectations
Attard, 3rd rd pick, late bloomer
Samson, 5th rd pick
Sotheran, 5th rd pick
Mann, 7th rd pick

Grans, throw-in in the Provorov trade
Walker, throw-in, primarily a cap dump, in Provorov trade
Belpedio, AHL+ with below average NHL speed

LHD
Sanheim #17
York #14
Zamula UDFA
Andrae #52
Ginning #50
Millman 4th rd
Zanetti 4th rd
Muchison 5th rd
McDonald 6th rd

Seeler - AHL+ who developed into a 3rd pair D-man
Mete - AHL+
Staal - warm body

You left out 2 significant ones in Braun and Niskanen.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

Every team needs some type of grit on the backend.

Seeler won't be blocking anyone because he's a really good bottom pair PKer who can probably be had for 3yr/ 2.25-3 per year. I think he's definitely worty that

Which of the Senior Advisors are you?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Every team needs some type of grit on the backend.

Seeler won't be blocking anyone because he's a really good bottom pair PKer who can probably be had for 3yr/ 2.25-3 per year. I think he's definitely worty that

You do not/should not pay your bottom pair defenseman that much. Also do not give out that type of term.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Every team needs some type of grit on the backend.

Seeler won't be blocking anyone because he's a really good bottom pair PKer who can probably be had for 3yr/ 2.25-3 per year. I think he's definitely worty that

There is absolutely zero f***ing reason to give Nick Seeler a 3rd year or anything over 2.5M per (and quite frankly it should be less than that… more like 2 max).

Would be a completely boneheaded move.

 

[deadhead]

You left out 2 significant ones in Braun and Niskanen.

I was thinking in terms of long-term assets, they were both short-term patches in a "win now" offseason. And both are long gone (though Braun did garner a 3rd, recouping one of the picks spent on him).

Risto this season, CF 50.56%, CFrel +0.23, xGF 55.13%, xGFrel +7.24, HDCF% 56.28%, HDCFrel +6.92.
He's playing 3rd pair minutes along with Seeler and Zamula.
Great performance, but in a somewhat sheltered role. Want to push him, both as a bridge to younger D-men (Bonk, whomever they draft this summer), and to up his trade value next summer.

If they trade Walker and Seeler, I'd like to see Risto move up to the top 4 with York, Drysdale and Sanheim, with Zamula, Ginning and Attard on the 3rd pair to finish the season - time to see if Ginning and Attard have a NHL future, even as a #6/#7, given their age.

 

[renberg]

If they trade Walker and Seeler, I'd like to see Risto move up to the top 4 with York, Drysdale and Sanheim, with Zamula, Ginning and Attard on the 3rd pair to finish the season - time to see if Ginning and Attard have a NHL future, even as a #6/#7, given their age.

Tortorellla/Shaw have been very good at picking who pairs with Risto and when. So far that has hidden his warts. Putting him in the top four would be rough for whomever gets iced with him. Maybe Sanheim can handle that but the that makes York/Drysdale a pairing. Is that what the Flyers would do?