2023-24 Roster Thread #7: A shave and a haircut, two bits

[LegionOfDoom91]

I listened to Charlie’s podcast about a month or so ago & they were essentially saying the Flyers were playing glorified exhibition games last year. Which is fine viewpoint to have in general but then said that’s why he doesn’t really care what Frost did last year.

 

[VladDrag]

There are a few sites that have him ranked pretty highly as well. Evolving Hockey's RAPM (which Charlie loved to use to show impactful Cates' was last season) is showing that Frost is ranked among the ES leaders in xG +/-. It's coming from both offensive and defensive metrics. Their xGAR model also has him in the ~90th percentile for offensive production.

I didn't realize he had climbed so high.

I listened to Charlie’s podcast about a month or so ago & they were essentially saying the Flyers were playing glorified exhibition games last year. Which is fine viewpoint to have in general but then said that’s why he doesn’t really care what Frost did last year.

Then why does he put so much stock into Cates? He's a jackass

 

[Striiker]

There are a few sites that have him ranked pretty highly as well. Evolving Hockey's RAPM (which Charlie loved to use to show impactful Cates' was last season) is showing that Frost is ranked among the ES leaders in xG +/-. It's coming from both offensive and defensive metrics. Their xGAR model also has him in the ~90th percentile for offensive production.

I didn't realize he had climbed so high.

There will be people who unironically tell you that this only happened because Torts scratched him and pushed the right buttons.

 

[Chinatown88]

They're buying at the deadline.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

oddly getting Ghost vibes yet again..


i can def. see Briere selling Frost low soon..

Torts gets what Torts wants.. ie low skill muckers n tryhards

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

is it me or is that worded weird...like..did they want him scratched more games?

Too much eggnog perhaps?

 

[Beef Invictus]

This must be so painful for a few people who needed him to fail for their own ego or because they care more about us being disappointed than the team winning.

 

[Curufinwe]

Then why does he put so much stock into Cates? He's a jackass

Despite challenges, Noah Cates thrived as a rookie. Now he looks to take further steps

In his rookie season, Cates quickly established himself as a quality NHL option — not even at his original position.

theathletic.com

Turns out those "further steps" were the steps down into the role of 4 point 4th liner.

The Flyers are paying a cool $7.75m this season for a 4th line with 11 combined points in 87 games, and horrible GF%. These are not guys getting a lot of hard minutes.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

Nic D - 28.57
Hathaway - 30
Risto - 38.46
Cates - 38.89
Poehling - 39.13
Atkinson - 41.3

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Then why does he put so much stock into Cates? He's a jackass

I guess because Charlie thinks the first quarter of last year (as well as the beginning of this year before Cates went down) when Frost was getting messed around with by Tortorella is the accurate representation of Frost.

 

[Appleyard]

I think some of these are pretty interesting...

Will state this is looking at the 3 years of data, and also balancing between "speed" (top speed, 22+ mph) and "acceleration/pace of play" (how much time spend over 20mph).

Most match up to eye test, but some dont quite.

 

[AdamParrot]

If I was GM,

I would really consider trading Owen Tippett. I don't like his hockey IQ at all. Yeah, he has great tools in shooting & skating. Also controlled contract. That's why I believe he has a high value.

And with that depth what we have on wingers? Konecny, Foerster, Brink, Farabee, Gauthier, Michkov + other prospects or young players and you will also pick more wingers in next drafts...

My ideal lineup in 2026 would be something like this:

Gauthier - XXX - Michkov
Farabee - Couturier - Foerster
XXX - XXX/Frost - Brink

And you can get a big return for TK as well.

Actually, if somehow Elias Pettersson would've wanted go away from Vancouver, I'd offer Konecny + Tippett + Walker + FLA 1st for him.

EP40 is an elite center and there is a minimal chance we can get that elite center via draft with that how we're playing & our organization "thinks"...

 

[VladDrag]

If I was GM,

I would really consider trading Owen Tippett. I don't like his hockey IQ at all. Yeah, he has great tools in shooting & skating. Also controlled contract. That's why I believe he has a high value.

And with that depth what we have on wingers? Konecny, Foerster, Brink, Farabee, Gauthier, Michkov + other prospects or young players and you will also pick more wingers in next drafts...

My ideal lineup in 2026 would be something like this:

Gauthier - XXX - Michkov
Farabee - Couturier - Foerster
XXX - XXX/Frost - Brink

And you can get a big return for TK as well.

Actually, if somehow Elias Pettersson would've wanted go away from Vancouver, I'd offer Konecny + Tippett + Walker + FLA 1st for him.

EP40 is an elite center and there is a minimal chance we can get that elite center via draft with that how we're playing & our organization "thinks"...

I agree with trading Tippett. I like him as a player, he brings an element that is hard to find, but he’s limited. No problem with that, but if you can get EP40 that would be awesome.

I think trading for EP40 is going to be hard. Van is one of the better teams and I don’t think they are eager to drop their top line center. A trade/offer sheet in the off-season is the most likely scenario. It would likely include Frost or Gauthier, either of which I would include in a trade…But I heard on chicklets that EP40 wants to go to Chicago next year and play with Bedard, not sure who that goes down.

 

[wankstifier]

Who the f*** is Rhett Gardner?

 

[AdamParrot]

I agree with trading Tippett. I like him as a player, he brings an element that is hard to find, but he’s limited. No problem with that, but if you can get EP40 that would be awesome.

I think trading for EP40 is going to be hard. Van is one of the better teams and I don’t think they are eager to drop their top line center. A trade/offer sheet in the off-season is the most likely scenario. It would likely include Frost or Gauthier, either of which I would include in a trade…But I heard on chicklets that EP40 wants to go to Chicago next year and play with Bedard, not sure who that goes down.

I definitely meant in the off-season (about trading for EP40) of course.

 

[VladDrag]

I definitely meant in the off-season (about trading for EP40) of course.

I wasn't sure because you included Walker, who is a UFA at the end of the season.

 

[Pet Charles]

My only real interest as it pertains to the roster for this season is what happens with Walker and Seeler. If Briere is what I think he is based on what he's shown since he took over, something has to happen with those two and I don't mean "re-sign." Despite the tremendous amount of fun I've had watching this club this year, I've been worried that they'll do too well and Briere will fool himself into believing they're a serious contender, thereby forgetting that this is (supposed to be) a 3- to 5-year rebuild. It's my post-Chuck PTSD.

Apart from that, I've made my peace with the Ristos and Deslauriers-es of this roster, although a boy can dream...

 

[Curufinwe]

Atkinson's been struggling for weeks and is still producing at almost double the hourly rate of Foerster at ES - 1.99 to 1.1.

 

[BiggE]

If I was GM,

I would really consider trading Owen Tippett. I don't like his hockey IQ at all. Yeah, he has great tools in shooting & skating. Also controlled contract. That's why I believe he has a high value.

And with that depth what we have on wingers? Konecny, Foerster, Brink, Farabee, Gauthier, Michkov + other prospects or young players and you will also pick more wingers in next drafts...

My ideal lineup in 2026 would be something like this:

Gauthier - XXX - Michkov
Farabee - Couturier - Foerster
XXX - XXX/Frost - Brink

And you can get a big return for TK as well.

Actually, if somehow Elias Pettersson would've wanted go away from Vancouver, I'd offer Konecny + Tippett + Walker + FLA 1st for him.

EP40 is an elite center and there is a minimal chance we can get that elite center via draft with that how we're playing & our organization "thinks"...

Totally agree with trading Tippett. The added bonus would be not seeing his face on my tv anymore.

Filling that xxxx at 1C and for that matter at 1D is gonna be key. The best way to do that is by accumulating as many first and even second round picks as possible. Seeler, Walker, and if a good offer is made Hart, all need to be dealt.

Atkinson's been struggling for weeks and is still producing at almost double the hourly rate of Foerster at ES - 1.99 to 1.1.

True, but unlike Cam, Foerster has some potential upside. Also, I don’t think they did him any favors when they were playing him on the top line with Couts and TK. He’s nowhere near ready for that. At ES he should be seeing 3rd line usage.

 

[wankstifier]

You'd think it'd be common sense to be more careful with Atkinson and Couturier. They've gotten hardly any rest so far. Couturier's the best C in the system and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[trostol]

You'd think it'd be common sense to be more careful with Atkinson and Couturier. They've gotten hardly any rest so far. Couturier's the best C in the system and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

they are gonna ride them til they can't anymore..because they are locked into a bubble race...if they were actually following what they said and actually rebuilding then they would get the odd game off here and there..but since they are still in that race..nope

 

[BernieParent]

they are gonna ride them til they can't anymore..because they are locked into a bubble race...if they were actually following what they said and actually rebuilding then they would get the odd game off here and there..but since they are still in that race..nope

"It's good for the kids to play with them."

 

[Flyerfan4life]

they are gonna ride them til they can't anymore..because they are locked into a bubble race...if they were actually following what they said and actually rebuilding then they would get the odd game off here and there..but since they are still in that race..nope

"rub some dirt in it"..

get out there....

 

[wankstifier]

Didn't realize that Laczynski is a UFA after this season. Is he being wasted in the AHL? How many other players should probably be promoted?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Didn't realize that Laczynski is a UFA after this season. Is he being wasted in the AHL? How many other players should probably be promoted?

Several. Staal shouldn't be here and should never play. Likewise Deslauriers and Hathaway. Seeler should have been moved too. We should be finding out what is who.

But, they aren't actually rebuilding.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm hoping this recent skid is a reality check for Briere that they definitely need to be sellers at the deadline.