2023-24 Roster Thread #6: A Hall of Famer, a doctor, a policeman and a moose walk into a bar with a Bundy...

[Ghosts Beer]

Hey @Ghosts Beer, you never answered my question? I'm just trying to have a civil discussion here.

Did I claim he did?

Pretty funny you want to bitch about my player-caliber comparison when you are too scared to provide one yourself.

 

[freakydallas13]

Did I claim he did?

Pretty funny you want to bitch about my player-caliber comparison when you are too scared to provide one yourself.

Did I claim you said that? Why are you being so confrontational, I'm just asking you simple questions. I have been nothing but civil.

Do you think comparing a player who lead his team in ES scoring over a season, and who put up 7 more points in his first full season than Beauvillier ever has, is apt?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Sam Gagner.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I’m trying to get a sense of how you guys rate Frost that makes you so exasperated that the Flyers feel differently.

So give me a player you think Frost compares to so I can see where you’re coming from.

I dont know how to rate him and thats my
the point. Kid only has one full nhl season under his belt. We need to see more of him to get a better feel for the kind of player he is/can be.

The whole point of this season is to further evaluate York/Farabee/Brink/Cates/Tippett/Frost. You cant evaluate them if they dont play.
Playing Deslauries over Frost is the kind of dinosaur thinking that is holding this team back. There is no logical argument for it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Did I claim you said that? Why are you being so confrontational, I'm just asking you simple questions. I have been nothing but civil.

Do you think comparing a player who lead his team in ES scoring over a season, and who put up 7 more points in his first full season than Beauvillier ever has, is apt?

“Your comparison is bad.”
“OK, give me a better one.”
“No!”

 

[Beef Invictus]

“Your comparison is bad.”
“OK, give me a better one.”
“No!”

What is the point?

 

[freakydallas13]

“Your comparison is bad.”
“OK, give me a better one.”
“No!”

Where did I say your comparison is bad? Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Starat327]

Where did I say your comparison is bad? Please don't put words in my mouth.

Allow me to direct you to a brickwall, good sir. You're going to have a better conversation talking to that.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

lol

100% complete asshole...

dude has no intention of playing Frost.

welcome to yet another devalued asset.

never change Flyers!!! never change

 

[Flyerfan4life]

What is the point?

yells into the wind...

 

[Tripod]

Torts has gotten them to change their goal song. Never knew he was a LL Cool J fan.

Don't call it a rebuild, they been shit for years
I'm rockin' my PHD, puttin' suckers in fear
Makin' the tears rain down like a monsoon
Listen to Nick D go boom
Forechecks, overpowerin'
Over the competition, I'm vomitin'
Wrecking Frost, when I scratch
These lineups that'll make you call the cops
Don't you dare stare
You better move, don't ever compare
Frost to the rest, they will never get addressed
Cates is payin' the price

Nick gonna knock you out (Huuh)
Clarkey said knock you out (Huuh)
Hathy gonna knock you out (Huuh)
Jonesey said knock you out (Huuh)

 

[FlyerNutter]

I truly do enjoy seeing this team get torched.

Don’t kid yourselves that they are fine “rebuilding” even in their half ass way.

The alumni scum that have constantly influenced the direction of this team deserve every loss coming this teams’s way.

 

[Magua]

What is the point of this pointless exercise? This serves absolutely no purpose except for you to complain about people not playing your arbitrary game where we all know there are no answers you'd accept.

The player he constantly compared Frost to was Nic Petan. For years. Chosen because he was a small bust. Last year proved that was an astute comparison!

 

[trostol]

They are rebuilding, so it makes sense to throw more on Cates' plate and see how he responds.
Unless you think they're a playoff team?

Frost is a mystery, though Laughton has outplayed him overall.
While Laughton over Poehling is an upgradefor the team, it's a downgrade for Laughton.
If they're looking to trade him, it might not be the best move.

But I'm not going to get excited about things on a short-term basis the next three years, Briere has be honest, he doesn't expect to compete for a couple years, and I'm sure his schedule is based on Gauthier and Bonk arriving and finding roles, elevating some prospects the next three years, and building a young competitive team for 2026-27 when they'll get a huge boost.

Michkov will be a game changer, and I'm sure they're building with him in mind.

are they rebuilding or as you said elsewhere..are they a veteran team? really can't be both at once

 

[Matti Mich]

Well at least we can look forward to the draft. The longer this cat and mouse goes on the more likely we are to pick in the top 5. I do think that if Frost isnt in the Flyers long term plan that should at least showcase him to increase value, I can't imagine the calls they are getting at the moment are enticing.

I can already see at this point frost being sent out with a cap dump returning with a pick attached. and i doubt the cap dump ends up being a worth while player.

 

[trostol]

who here won't be surprised when they finally concede to trade Laughton and only get like a 3rd for him lol

 

[GKJ]

They are not rebuilding. They’re doing what they did before by refusing to say the word. Now they’re just saying it because they think they’re supposed to.

 

[Tripod]

who here won't be surprised when they finally concede to trade Laughton and only get like a 3rd for him lol

Naw, will trade Frost then say they can't trade Laughton due to lack of C depth.

It's already been written

 

[Curufinwe]

Laughton is the only center producing ES points at a decent rate so far, and he's not even really a center. Meanwhile their best offensive chance creator has being scratched for over the half the season in order to keep a bad 4th line together.

The front office obviously think that the Flyers can be a contender in a few years with a center line up of Couturier, Cates and Cutter.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Naw, will trade Frost then say they can't trade Laughton due to lack of C depth.

It's already been written

100 % what will happen.

Trade Frost for some 26 yr grinder and keep Laughton cause they only have 2 NHL centers left, Couts and Poehling.

 

[renberg]

This not skating Frost is beyond strange. Putting Coots nback into the lineup doesn't automatically mean that Frost has to be benched. Either Laughton, Cates or he could removed to LW. Actually for Cates it might be a better place for him. When coaches do this sort of stuff it causes trouble in the locker room. If Frost can be screwed over like this, so can other players. Torts may lose the room by Christmas.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I thought I answered that question in the post to which you responded. I provided examples. I didn’t even praise Briere that much. I gave him an incomplete grade.

To recap the second paragraph, you’re saying I’m not wrong to credit Briere for drafting Michkov. We agree. I’m old enough to remember the Chuck Fletcher years, so I consider it an advancement.

Please excuse that I pulled this out into the Roster thread. It wasn't about the game and I didn't want to flood people with a different topic because I went off on a tangent.

This is one of places where deady and I (plus many others) have always agreed. Fletcher wasn't hired to build. He was hired to win immediately. He didn't do it well, but that's a separate issue. I'm going to use a common football analogy to illustrate my point here and trust that most people will get it. For many years, it was popular to quote a team's record when their star Running Back got 20+ Carries. Well it turns out that the correlation here was that teams with leads run the ball more and so therefore they win more. It didn't have anything to do with the star RB. The instructive bit was the game script.

The examples you gave were things like the Provorov trade for futures. That's the GM script. If Fletcher was still here through the other changes, he would have sold some players off too. He wouldn't have sold exactly the same ones in exactly the same ways or for the same reasons, which is where we can better evaluate a GM. What they've done since Briere took over are the easy moves. They took 3 guys who were unwanted in their own locker room because of problems with people in the organization and they traded them. In practice, it's the same reason they traded Gostisbehere. There's nothing new here.

We essentially have 5 data points of even minor internal conflict. They signed 3 UFAs of note. The two Forwards are good 4th liners. One of them is too old for their timeline and the stated reasons are spurious at best, but I'm willing to roll with it because they're net positive players. I'll hope there's signal in the talent evaluation noise. Staal is what he is. I don't think he's very good. But again, we're talking lower rung decisions. I don't expect to agree with every single move they make.

The two more impactful NHL decisions they made were to desperately try to dump Sanheim and to not take the offer for Laughton. Neither one of those looks very good to me. Maybe you wanted to keep Laughton at all costs and think Sanheim will turn into a pumpkin any day now. Then I understand having hope. But don't tell me that you're hopeful because it's different now. We have no idea yet. Learn from the Hextall years. Wait for the difficult moves instead of assuming a GM is good because he got a draft pick for Zac Rinaldo.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Russ Joy redpilling about the effect of Tortorella on a rebuilding team & how it’s counterproductive on the recent STG podcast & having ASF flounder in defense of Tortorella was hilarious.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hopefully when they trade Frost the Flyers won’t have to pay someone to take his contract like the Canucks will have to when they move Beauvillier.

 

[ponder719]

The front office obviously think that the Flyers can be a contender in a few years with a center line up of Couturier, Cates and Cutter.

That's the plan: Couts, Cates, Cutts, and Cdeslauriers.