2023-24 Roster Thread #5: Where the boos aren't limited to Halloween

[Beef Invictus]

dang if only Danny read that quote in march and went to the hextall school for wayward GMs. does this board have a thing for Hextall that i havent picked up in the lore yet?

Our "Thing" for him is that he did a bad job with a horrible approach, and set in place a lot of terrible processes the team has tripled down upon.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think Brink caught them by surprise, going into camp, and even the first week of camp, he was ticketed to LHV for "seasoning," coming off a subpar season due to hip surgery. Then he plays himself into a longer audition, into a cameo to start the season, and then into the top 9 as the best playmaker on the team.

At the same time, Couts and Atkinson and Farabee have exceeded expectations. So suddenly they have (10) top 9 forwards for 9 slots, 1 true LW, 4 centers, and 5 RWs. Now Laughton can move to LW, but you still have to shift one RW and bench another.

Right now they're playing Tippett and TK on the left side, Tippett is struggling a bit.
If you move Laughton to the 4th line you have to leave both on the left side (or move Foerster or Atkinson or Brink over). And you reduce Laughton's trade value.

I think this will be resolved in the next few weeks, if the AHL forwards keep playing well, Briere will be more confident that he has the depth to handle injuries, so he'll be more wiling to trade a forward. And teams are already losing forwards around the league and lack the cap room to easily replace them - what team has both an extra forward and the cap room to facilitate a trade?

Laughton playing 2 less minutes per game is going to tank his trade value? This isn't a guy whose value is derived from his scoring or needs PP time. That doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

We literally hear this same exact thing EVERY year but, yes, i'm sure this time it's different.

 

[Curufinwe]

I've seen quite a Buzz today about Laughton moving to the 4th line to get Frost back in the team. Obviously, Deslauriers would have to be hurt for that to even be an option for Torts, but I don't think those Laughton to the 4th line dreams will be coming true this season going by the ES TOI/GP so far.

And Cates would be a better 4LW option than Laughton, anyway. Dallas dominated them so much Torts could barely play that line in the last game. With Cates there as the F1 they would be a forechecking nightmare for other teams to play against. Cates is averaging three minutes less at ES than he did in 2022-23.

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Couturier - 14:20
Tippett - 12:59
Laughton - 12:46
Atkinson - 12:36
Brink - 12:26
Konecny - 12:16

Foerster - 11:59
Farabee - 11:52
Frost - 11:38
Cates - 11:04

Poehling - 10:09
Hathaway - 10:02
Deslauriers - 9:35

 

[tnfrs]

I've seen quite a Buzz today about Laughton moving to the 4th line to get Frost back in the team. Obviously, Deslauriers would have to be hurt for that to even be an option for Torts, but I don't think those Laughton to the 4th line dreams will be coming true this season going by the ES TOI/GP so far.

And Cates would be a better 4LW option than Laughton, anyway. Dallas dominated them so much Torts could barely play that line in the last game. With Cates there as the F1 they would be a forechecking nightmare for other teams to play against. Cates is averaging three minutes less at ES than he did in 2022-23.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Couturier - 14:20
Tippett - 12:59
Laughton - 12:46
Atkinson - 12:36
Brink - 12:26
Konecny - 12:16

Foerster - 11:59
Farabee - 11:52
Frost - 11:38
Cates - 11:04

Poehling - 10:09
Hathaway - 10:02
Deslauriers - 9:35

we were coming from behind and torts rolled his scorers more, hathaway's xG was in the 70s against Dallas so its tough to say they were getting dominated

 

[VladDrag]

we were coming from behind and torts rolled his scorers more, hathaway's xG was in the 70s against Dallas so its tough to say they were getting dominated

Here's the shot map for Hathaway during that game..... There were not that many shots generated during his time on Ice.

Of course he didn't geet dominated in xGF because nothing happned.


I wish the NHL Edge data had a game per game breakdown to see how much time they spend in the defensive zone. Here's Hathaway's ES % breakdown through the 5 games...

This is a stark contrast from Poehling and Deslauriers, who are spending a lot more time in the O-zone and a lot less time in the D-zone. I'm not sure what the hell is going on because Hathaway has only been away from Poehling and Deslauriers for like 3 minutes. This is why using early season data for evaluation is so silly.

 

[deadhead]

The problem was Hextall stopped trying to get younger after the 2014 TDL.

When they lucked into the playoffs in 2015-16 with a hot Mason, he thought he had already turned the team around, then when they caved in the next season, traded Schenn, then when they made the playoffs again, was complacent going into the 2018-19 season which got him fired.

That 2015-16 team only had a half dozen players 25 or under:
B Schenn (24), Couts (23), Cousins (22), Laughton (21), Gudas (25), Manning (25), Ghost (22)

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I can’t stop laughing at “the major problem was that Hextall stopped trying to get younger after 2014” being in the same post as pointing out a trade where he moved a soon to be 26 yo Schenn for draft picks in 2017

The problem was talent. The problem is talent. The problem will continue to be talent. They can’t get beyond Step 1 because they have the same smartest guy in the room mentality woven into their DNA. It’s not working harder. It’s not locker room culture. It’s not anything else that allows them to say WE HAVE FOUND THE PROBLEM AND FIXED IT. Every few years, a new guy comes in and points to something. Some seals clap. Then everything goes to shit. This will probably repeat until we’re all dust.

 

[FlyerNutter]

 

[ajgoal]

This will probably repeat until we’re all dust.

If we self immolate, would it speed up the process?

I mean, I won't, but if everyone else wants to...

 

[tnfrs]

This is a stark contrast from Poehling and Deslauriers, who are spending a lot more time in the O-zone and a lot less time in the D-zone. I'm not sure what the hell is going on because Hathaway has only been away from Poehling and Deslauriers for like 3 minutes. This is why using early season data for evaluation is so silly.

I imagine deslauriers and poehling are told to get off the ice if the play starts heading toward the d zone, hathaways probably just the first guy back on that line

 

[Curufinwe]

How can you support Frost when he had zero -- ZERO -- points in the entire 2020-21 season??? SMH my head.

Worse than that, he has zero points combined in two out of the past four NHL seasons.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If we self immolate, would it speed up the process?

I mean, I won't, but if everyone else wants to...

Dying is technically a process, so by definition I think the answer is yes? For whatever reason this made me think of Big L rhyming "I smash mics like cornbread" with "You can't kill me, I was born dead."

The Flyers are so boring that I'm doing 1995 hip hop bits to try to hold my interest. There are like 2 people here tops who know Big L.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Surely, the contrarians have learned from making early season victory laps.

This is the best start in years baby !!!!!

That s until you look at previous years starts

 

[Tripod]

A rebuilding team:

Trades Laughton for that 1st+2nd deal
Trades Seeler in the offseason for a pick
Doesn't sign 4th line RW when you are stacked at RW
Doesn't sign a 36 year old Dman
Doesn't scratch your 24 year old, 2nd best C, to play Laughton in that spot

 

[deadhead]

I can’t stop laughing at “the major problem was that Hextall stopped trying to get younger after 2014” being in the same post as pointing out a trade where he moved a soon to be 26 yo Schenn for draft picks in 2017

He moved Shcenn in the summer of 2017, three years after he took over, that's called "spinning your wheels." He didn't move Streit, Simmons, Read, Raffl, AMac or others in the summer of 2015, which would have made sense after the TDL trades if he was rebuilding - not even tanking - just move out the guys who probably weren't going to be around in 3 years while they still had value.

That's because Hextall, even with a mandate from Snider, couldn't get away from the idea that if they could make the playoffs, anything could happen (and did, just in a bad way, like Mason melting down).

I'm withholding judgement on Briere until after the draft, he's been trying to add assets (talks with Ottawa about Joseph, for example), so let's see how things play out. One thing slowing things down is very few trades were made involving 1st rd picks before the draft or over the summer, so teams may be more reluctant to spend draft capital. But come the TDL, GMs tend to have high discount rates.

 

[deadhead]

Dying is technically a process, so by definition I think the answer is yes? For whatever reason this made me think of Big L rhyming "I smash mics like cornbread" with "You can't kill me, I was born dead."

The Flyers are so boring that I'm doing 1995 hip hop bits to try to hold my interest. There are like 2 people here tops who know Big L.

Certainly not me. I have no interest in rap and hip hop (or punk and heavy metal).
Not gonna be an old white guy who tries to be hip by pretending to like music he secretly hates (well, not hate, boredom would be closer, feel the same about Eurodisco and most dance music).

I don't find this team boring, now the 2020-21 and 2021-22 Flyers, who mailed it in, that was boring, no worse, that was aesthetically distasteful. I can watch bad teams and root for kids who are trying (see the Sixers a few years ago) but not well paid athletes going through the motions.

 

[Tripod]

The problem was Hextall stopped trying to get younger after the 2014 TDL.

When they lucked into the playoffs in 2015-16 with a hot Mason, he thought he had already turned the team around, then when they caved in the next season, traded Schenn, then when they made the playoffs again, was complacent going into the 2018-19 season which got him fired.

That 2015-16 team only had a half dozen players 25 or under:
B Schenn (24), Couts (23), Cousins (22), Laughton (21), Gudas (25), Manning (25), Ghost (22)

Can you just stop f***ing lying.

After 2014 deadline he:

Traded Timonen for 2 picks
Traded Vinny and Schenn for Weal and pick
Traded Coburn for Gudas and 1st
Traded Pronger and Grossman for Gagner and pick
Traded Rinaldo for 3rd!
Traded McGinn for 3rd
Traded Streit for Flip +2 picks
Traded Schenn for 2 1sts +dump

All trades to get younger returns. Stop lying. Hell, look at his trade history in Philly. Every trade gets back something younger than what he gave out. f***ing liar.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Curufinwe]

Traded Coburn (30) for Gudas (25) and 1st - which was used on TK

Traded Schenn (26) for 2 1sts + dump - used on Frost and Farabee

But they didn't get younger.

 

[bennysflyers16]

We literally hear this same exact thing EVERY year but, yes, i'm sure this time it's different.

Can you just stop f***ing lying.

After 2014 deadline he:

Traded Timonen for 2 picks
Traded Vinny and Schenn for Weal and pick
Traded Coburn for Gudas and 1st
Traded Pronger and Grossman for Gagner and pick
Traded Rinaldo for 3rd!
Traded McGinn for 3rd
Traded Streit for Flip +2 picks
Traded Schenn for 2 1sts +dump

All trades to get younger returns. Stop lying. Hell, look at his trade history in Philly. Every trade gets back something younger than what he gave out. f***ing liar.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

You just put him over your lap and spanked the little fella !!!

 

[BernieParent]

No one here has a problem with 2/3 of that line,

Laughton Poheling Hathaway we would all get behind.

I severely dislike Hathaway and his penchant for dirty hits. Please note in the weekly minutes.

 

[Curufinwe]

Has Hathaway ever been suspended?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Can you just stop f***ing lying.

After 2014 deadline he:

Traded Timonen for 2 picks
Traded Vinny and Schenn for Weal and pick
Traded Coburn for Gudas and 1st
Traded Pronger and Grossman for Gagner and pick
Traded Rinaldo for 3rd!
Traded McGinn for 3rd
Traded Streit for Flip +2 picks
Traded Schenn for 2 1sts +dump

All trades to get younger returns. Stop lying. Hell, look at his trade history in Philly. Every trade gets back something younger than what he gave out. f***ing liar.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

You can certainly criticize Hextall for not going further. I did then & still do now but that’s delusional.

The funny thing is mistakes Hextall made are currently made by this current regime again.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Torts comes in and spearheads the rebuild, gets the team playing better hockey than it has in years, and you've got fans clamoring for his firing.

Yep holds the players accountable. Love what he is doing with the team overall. But he sits Frosty the Flake and the sky is falling for some

 

[Tripod]

Yep holds the players accountable. Love what he is doing with the team overall. But he sits Frosty the Flake and the sky is falling for some

You deserve this shit organization