2023-24 Roster Thread #5: Where the boos aren't limited to Halloween

[deadhead]

Torts on Frost: "I know I need to get him in. I want to get him in. I just have not seen an opening for him right now. I’m not going to put Frosty in to a checking role or play him on the fourth line. If I’m going to put hm back in, it’s going to be in an offensive situation."

Something is going on, whether it's having to audition RWs at LW, decide if Brink and Foerster are going to start the rest of the season, showcase Laughton or something else, it doesn't sound like this is animus toward Frost.

They're rebuilding right? Which means they're not concerned with putting the best team on the ice right now. So they may have other priorities?

 

[trostol]

any time i see someone saying they are rebuilding

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nothing says rebuilding like driving young talent off the team while minimizing opportunities for them to play.

 

[VladDrag]

I really don’t know why Frost & his camp just didn’t ask for a trade this summer. It’s just not gonna work as long as Tortorella is the coach here regardless of right or wrong. No point of subjecting a player to that when they can possibly get a better opportunity elsewhere.

For all we know they did. Briere likes Forst, worked with him and was one of the ones who told Torts he needed to player frost more last year.

Pure speculation, but it could be the reason why they didn’t sign until much later.

 

[deadhead]

I think Brink caught them by surprise, going into camp, and even the first week of camp, he was ticketed to LHV for "seasoning," coming off a subpar season due to hip surgery. Then he plays himself into a longer audition, into a cameo to start the season, and then into the top 9 as the best playmaker on the team.

At the same time, Couts and Atkinson and Farabee have exceeded expectations. So suddenly they have (10) top 9 forwards for 9 slots, 1 true LW, 4 centers, and 5 RWs. Now Laughton can move to LW, but you still have to shift one RW and bench another.

Right now they're playing Tippett and TK on the left side, Tippett is struggling a bit.
If you move Laughton to the 4th line you have to leave both on the left side (or move Foerster or Atkinson or Brink over). And you reduce Laughton's trade value.

I think this will be resolved in the next few weeks, if the AHL forwards keep playing well, Briere will be more confident that he has the depth to handle injuries, so he'll be more wiling to trade a forward. And teams are already losing forwards around the league and lack the cap room to easily replace them - what team has both an extra forward and the cap room to facilitate a trade?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Sanheim interviewed by Charlie O. Sanheim misinterprates the question. But either way could be true.

View attachment 756686

What was the quote?

 

[Beef Invictus]

For all we know they did. Briere likes Forst, worked with him and was one of the ones who told Torts he needed to player frost more last year.

Pure speculation, but it could be the reason why they didn’t sign until much later.

The coach simply has to go. He's a huge problem.

 

[macleish1974]

What was the quote?

It was a bad joke?

Beef: Torts is a guy that hates cats, too.......

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Torts comes in and spearheads the rebuild, gets the team playing better hockey than it has in years, and you've got fans clamoring for his firing.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

NHL-best 9 goals scored off the rush.

Got people calling for his head.

 

[Striiker]

Makes sense that people who defend Torts have to lie as much as he does.

They aren’t rebuilding, he hasn’t spearheaded anything, he hasn’t improved the team. The players he hates did that.

 

[deadhead]

Torts comes in and spearheads the rebuild, gets the team playing better hockey than it has in years, and you've got fans clamoring for his firing.

Sour grapes. A lot of people wanted a Chicago type meltdown tank, which would have meant no competitive team until the next decade - because to tank like that, you'd have to trade most of the top young players on the team, which means that you need 3-4 drafts just to replace them as well as land a couple elite players (given the lottery, and variance in drafts, you might have to totally suck for 4-5 seasons to land 2-3 elite players).

It's obvious the current strategy is not just Torts, Briere has totally bought in as well as Hilferty.

It's a rebuild, but not a tank, they have a core of young players, Michkov, Gauthier and Bonk, (2) 1sts and (2) 2nds in this draft, and the option to add more picks with trades this season and before the draft. It's clear the priorities are skilled wings, defensively responsible centers, mobile D-men and goalies. Clear break from Holmgren/Hextall, a "size queen" wouldn't draft Michkov, Barkey and Ciernak and trade for Rizzo.

They would like to be competitive in three years, and why not? If you can build a solid second tier team in three years and then add 21 year old Michkov in 2026-27, you're immediately a SC contender. But I don't think they have any intention of hitting the FA market to do this, rather, they trust Tort's ability to mold a contending team by coaching up young players.

 

[pooch]

The anger has everything to do with the path we are currently on has nothing to do with the 5 games this year. We are staring at another decade of mediocrity. We have one elite prospect, one really solid prospect and a ton of secondary pieces (I left goalies out of this because who knows with them). People are upset for these reasons....plus the coach is a massive douchebag.

 

[FlyerNutter]

hoping for a successful rebuild with this development/drafting crew that’s seen basically no turnover since I’ve been wiping my own ass…

Without the gimme picks. They aren’t finding enough high end talent to put them above the top teams in the league.

Ok then.

 

[freakydallas13]

Surely, the contrarians have learned from making early season victory laps.

 

[tnfrs]

Sour grapes. A lot of people wanted a Chicago type meltdown tank, which would have meant no competitive team until the next decade - because to tank like that, you'd have to trade most of the top young players on the team, which means that you need 3-4 drafts just to replace them as well as land a couple elite players (given the lottery, and variance in drafts, you might have to totally suck for 4-5 seasons to land 2-3 elite players).

It's obvious the current strategy is not just Torts, Briere has totally bought in as well as Hilferty.

It's a rebuild, but not a tank, they have a core of young players, Michkov, Gauthier and Bonk, (2) 1sts and (2) 2nds in this draft, and the option to add more picks with trades this season and before the draft. It's clear the priorities are skilled wings, defensively responsible centers, mobile D-men and goalies. Clear break from Holmgren/Hextall, a "size queen" wouldn't draft Michkov, Barkey and Ciernak and trade for Rizzo.

They would like to be competitive in three years, and why not? If you can build a solid second tier team in three years and then add 21 year old Michkov in 2026-27, you're immediately a SC contender. But I don't think they have any intention of hitting the FA market to do this, rather, they trust Tort's ability to mold a contending team by coaching up young players.

I think people just expected a total tear down so we could comfortably be in a lottery position for a few seasons and have a better chance at some high end prospects, but even without Torts we'd have to strip it down to the bones to be anywhere near the absolute bottom. if we ended up with a few years where we got Celebrini and Hagens and McKenna its probably worth it but its never guaranteed, and its far more likely we miss out on the 1st overall and end up with the 2nd and 3rd picks which we have in Michkov and Gauthier more or less. A few more high end prospects would be nice, but if we can introduce the new guys into a system thats already established and theyre not immediately relied on to be the saviors, they dont have the pressure to carry the team on their shoulders, they dont have to figure it out on their own, they just have to play hockey and everything is already in place for them to do that to their absolute best. I dont want our prospects bearing the brunt of what the fans say about the players and the team online for the first 6 years of their career while we build a team around them and lose every season, could you imagine being a kid in the flyers system and being legitmiately curious about what fans say online and then stumbling on this board?

 

[FlyerNutter]

I think people just expected a total tear down so we could comfortably be in a lottery position for a few seasons and have a better chance at some high end prospects, but even without Torts we'd have to strip it down to the bones to be anywhere near the absolute bottom. if we ended up with a few years where we got Celebrini and Hagens and McKenna its probably worth it but its never guaranteed, and its far more likely we miss out on the 1st overall and end up with the 2nd and 3rd picks which we have in Michkov and Gauthier more or less. A few more high end prospects would be nice, but if we can introduce the new guys into a system thats already established and theyre not immediately relied on to be the saviors, they dont have the pressure to carry the team on their shoulders, they dont have to figure it out on their own, they just have to play hockey and everything is already in place for them to do that to their absolute best. I dont want our prospects bearing the brunt of what the fans say about the players and the team online for the first 6 years of their career while we build a team around them and lose every season, could you imagine being a kid in the flyers system and being legitmiately curious about what fans say online and then stumbling on this board?

Im still waiting for someone to explain how this "retool" is different than what we have seen under Hextall.

Refusing to deal players to maximize draft capital, and draft position. Sitting on their ass - and drafting in the not prime spots.

Its the exact same plan, with the same country club - but now the boogie man that was Ron is gone.B Because Comcast is marketing it as change doesn't make it so when all the pigs are still in place.

 

[BillDineen]

Im still waiting for someone to explain how this "retool" is different than what we have seen under Hextall.

Refusing to deal players to maximize draft capital, and draft position. Sitting on their ass - and drafting in the not prime spots.

Its the exact same plan, with the same country club - but now the boogie man that was Ron is gone.B Because Comcast is marketing it as change doesn't make it so when all the pigs are still in place.

Hextall, 2017:

“You’re not rebuilding when you’re competitive,” Hextall said in a firm tone. “A rebuild, to me, is when you go to the bottom and you pick high, high, high – and essentially, you’re not trying that hard to win. That’s not in our DNA. We want to win. We want to win as many games as possible. We’re not going to go to the bottom of the league and pick first overall for four or five years. That’s no way to build culture. Our vision was to stay competitive, and build, and get younger — and that’s exactly what we’re doing.”

 

[tnfrs]

Hextall, 2017:

“You’re not rebuilding when you’re competitive,” Hextall said in a firm tone. “A rebuild, to me, is when you go to the bottom and you pick high, high, high – and essentially, you’re not trying that hard to win. That’s not in our DNA. We want to win. We want to win as many games as possible. We’re not going to go to the bottom of the league and pick first overall for four or five years. That’s no way to build culture. Our vision was to stay competitive, and build, and get younger — and that’s exactly what we’re doing.”

dang if only Danny read that quote in march and went to the hextall school for wayward GMs. does this board have a thing for Hextall that i havent picked up in the lore yet?

 

[Curufinwe]

Surely, the contrarians have learned from making early season victory laps.

You would think so, but no.

2021: .643 in October - .372 overall (29th)

2022: .688 in October - .457 overall (26th)

2023: .700 in October -

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Hextall, 2017:

“You’re not rebuilding when you’re competitive,” Hextall said in a firm tone. “A rebuild, to me, is when you go to the bottom and you pick high, high, high – and essentially, you’re not trying that hard to win. That’s not in our DNA. We want to win. We want to win as many games as possible. We’re not going to go to the bottom of the league and pick first overall for four or five years. That’s no way to build culture. Our vision was to stay competitive, and build, and get younger — and that’s exactly what we’re doing.”

Chicago enters chat and laffs...

 

[DadtheDemon]

 

[Striiker]

Well no shit… he’s never played on an NHL-level PP unit in his career.

 

[BernieParent]

Getting some interesting “Couturier is just a 3C” vibes from all these Frost debates.

Obviously very different players, but the whole idea that a lack of offensive visibility/production must be his fault,
means he can’t be more, and means he hasn’t earned a bigger role definitely feels familiar. Particularly when he’s proven he has the offensive ability but clearly isn’t given a chance to show it.

How can you support Frost when he had zero -- ZERO -- points in the entire 2020-21 season??? SMH my head.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts comes in and spearheads the rebuild, gets the team playing better hockey than it has in years, and you've got fans clamoring for his firing.

There is no rebuild. They're still the same terrible team playing a terrible hockey style with the exception of perhaps 5 players, several of whom the team clashes with and has tried to move out. They were awful last year. They will be awful this year once they finish their traditional early lucky start that you always fall hard for, causing you to disappear in embarrassment for a bit when the roof inevitably falls in and your victory laps become comedy gold.