2023-24 Roster Thread #5: Where the boos aren't limited to Halloween

[VladDrag]

NAK played like 1 game in the final series that year. People here love pointing to the NAK example like its a gotcha moment but its not, he averaged less than 10 minutes a night and was a complete non factor in every way during those playoffs, and he hasnt played regular minutes for a team since.

The person who brings up NAK more than anyone else is Deady.

The argument about NAK has never really been about NAK himself, but the fact that he wasn't really deployed to reach that maximum upper percentile of efficacy. After his draft year he started generating producing more than expected, and developed a knack (pun intended) for scoring. He was a PP player. Once he got into the Flyers org, they didn't play him on the PP at all, despite being the team's leading scorer at ES in 17-18, and 18-19. They didn't attempt to allow him to develop his skillset further.

Then they gave guys like Dale Weise, Jori Letehra, Phil Varone, Tyler Pitlick etc. more ice time than NAK. The argument was the same as it is now...The Flyers were giving veteran players more ice time than their younger players, they were not putting their younger players in positions to succeed.

The argument about NAK has turned into, 'see, he isn't a good bottom six player, so he never deserved ice time over these other guys.' I don't agree that he's not a good bottom six player, and that's not the original point of the argument surrounding NAK.

NAK was a prime example of a fundamentally flawed process that's still in practice today.

 

[Redpath]

Lol Sharp has no say on anything, this is 100% torts organization

Key word "supposed"

 

[deadhead]

Trading Cousins for a 5th was far worse,
Since Hextall traded him, he's started 7 seasons, mostly as a 3rd line forward.
A limited, but solid bottom six forward.
Guess Hextall didn't like him b/c he was "too small."

Oh yeah, he had 7 points in 21 post-season games for Florida, so he actually helped them get to the SC Finals.

Not that this deal had much impact on the Flyers.
They didn't go into a death spiral over the loss of a bottom six forward.

 

[FLYguy3911]

NAK was a third liner on this team the last time they were good.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

NAK played like 1 game in the final series that year. People here love pointing to the NAK example like its a gotcha moment but its not, he averaged less than 10 minutes a night and was a complete non factor in every way during those playoffs, and he hasnt played regular minutes for a team since.

He was injured in the Oilers series. So... take a bit of your own advice and realize this isn't a gotcha moment.

Again, no one gives a shit about NAK the player, it's the process. The only people that specifically bring up NAK are the ones that want to act as if it's a singular issue.

 

[tnfrs]

He was injured in the Oilers series. So... take a bit of your own advice and realize this isn't a gotcha moment.

Again, no one gives a shit about NAK the player, it's the process. The only people that specifically bring up NAK are the ones that want to act as if it's a singular issue.

well he came back in the final, he was just scratched for the last 3 games it wasnt an injury at that point. not the first time someones played at less than 100% in the playoffs though, everybodys banged up. not everyone gets healthy scratched the last 3 games though, the most important games of the season.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

well he came back in the final, he was just scratched for the last 3 games it wasnt an injury at that point. not the first time someones played at less than 100% in the playoffs though, everybodys banged up. not everyone gets healthy scratched the last 3 games though, the most important games of the season.

Glad to hear that you're such an authority on the Avalanche and what went on during that run.

 

[tnfrs]

Glad to hear that you're such an authority on the Avalanche and what went on during that run.

happy to help brodybro, lemme know if you wanna talk about other career 4th liners

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

happy to help brodybro, lemme know if you wanna talk about other career 4th liners

NAK was a third liner on this team the last time they were good.

 

[ponder719]

And nothing of value was lost.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

And nothing of value was lost.

Remember this when we're gaslighted months from now about how Torts took him out of the lineup after four games and/or shows the ice time for those four games (lowered by playing a portion of yesterday's game) to make some type of ridiculous disingenuous point.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

And nothing of value was lost.

I saw Risto skating at Voorhees the other day - he looks close.

I don't think we're going to get Zamula and Andrae, sadly.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

And nothing of value was lost.

Can't wait for Zamula and Andrae to both miss time for this injustice...

 

[deadhead]

York - Sanheim
Zamula - Walker
Seeler - Risto

Andrae needs to go to LHV, He's clearly not ready, a mistake machine right now.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

And nothing of value was lost.

not one person here could have called signing a old worn out horse would get injured at the start of the season..

#Veteranrespect...

 

[Tripod]

Trading Cousins for a 5th was far worse,
Since Hextall traded him, he's started 7 seasons, mostly as a 3rd line forward.
A limited, but solid bottom six forward.
Guess Hextall didn't like him b/c he was "too small."

Oh yeah, he had 7 points in 21 post-season games for Florida, so he actually helped them get to the SC Finals.

Not that this deal had much impact on the Flyers.
They didn't go into a death spiral over the loss of a bottom six forward.

Once again, trying to blame things on your infatuation, Hextall.

Cousins had seen his icetime drop as the season went on and also had some healthy scratches....under your boy Haxstol.

And the part you completely ignored, was he was traded right before the expansion draft lists needed to be submitted. Hextall would have lost him for nothing, and instead, got a pick.

But nice try in trying to pin it all on Hextall and your quest to prove he had an issue with small players.

And laughable you use his pts in Florida's run as a "gotcha" with NAK. NAK was waived then claimed by the Avs and won the cup the same year...with NAK playing plenty of games. Cousins was a 3rd liner in Philly....and it was 7 years and 3 teams later in him helping Florida. It's a stupid comparison.

 

[Rebels57]

I can't believe people are still arguing about Hextall and NAK in 2023

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I can't believe people are still arguing about Hextall and NAK in 2023

I’m still ready to argue about Jeff Carter.

 

[deadhead]

I'm not arguing, I'm the one who noted how inconsequential the Cousins deal was, same as waiving NAK, or Allison for that matter. You'd like to win these more than you lose on the margin, but the key word is "margin."

Good teams win on their top 9/top 5, the 4th line and #6/#7 D-men aren't difference makers.
If you can't put good players in those slots, it won't matter who you add on the margin.

 

[Striiker]

The person who brings up NAK more than anyone else is Deady.

The argument about NAK has never really been about NAK himself, but the fact that he wasn't really deployed to reach that maximum upper percentile of efficacy. After his draft year he started generating producing more than expected, and developed a knack (pun intended) for scoring. He was a PP player. Once he got into the Flyers org, they didn't play him on the PP at all, despite being the team's leading scorer at ES in 17-18, and 18-19. They didn't attempt to allow him to develop his skillset further.

Then they gave guys like Dale Weise, Jori Letehra, Phil Varone, Tyler Pitlick etc. more ice time than NAK. The argument was the same as it is now...The Flyers were giving veteran players more ice time than their younger players, they were not putting their younger players in positions to succeed.

The argument about NAK has turned into, 'see, he isn't a good bottom six player, so he never deserved ice time over these other guys.' I don't agree that he's not a good bottom six player, and that's not the original point of the argument surrounding NAK.

NAK was a prime example of a fundamentally flawed process that's still in practice today.

Yep, it's never been about NAK or Frost or any other specific player.


It's about how the team consistently overvalues and undervalues the wrong things.
It's about how they were misused, undervalued, and screwed over in order to use significantly worse players.
It's about how players are always put in positions to fail.

It make not have a big impact when it's a guy like NAK but it does when it's a Ghost or a Sanheim or a Provorov or eventually a Michkov.

 

[Tripod]

I'm not arguing, I'm the one who noted how inconsequential the Cousins deal was, same as waiving NAK, or Allison for that matter. You'd like to win these more than you lose on the margin, but the key word is "margin."

Good teams win on their top 9/top 5, the 4th line and #6/#7 D-men aren't difference makers.
If you can't put good players in those slots, it won't matter who you add on the margin.

No, you tried to pin losing Cousins who is better than NAK on Hextall and tried to frame it as him not liking small players.

You ignored he was traded due to the expansion draft and Hextall chose to get a pick for him vs getting nothing.

But you need to keep bringing up Hextall in a feeble attempt to blame him for shit, to protect your "1 mistake" Fletch.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Unless he's traded to Vegas!

NAK had 0 points in 14 postseason games, think they won in spite, not because, of him.

Ah so you didn't watch any of the games

 

[Curufinwe]

Cousins was only traded so they could protect Laughton in the Expansion Draft instead.

Kind of an important fact.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading Cousins for a 5th was far worse,
Since Hextall traded him, he's started 7 seasons, mostly as a 3rd line forward.
A limited, but solid bottom six forward.
Guess Hextall didn't like him b/c he was "too small."

Oh yeah, he had 7 points in 21 post-season games for Florida, so he actually helped them get to the SC Finals.

Not that this deal had much impact on the Flyers.
They didn't go into a death spiral over the loss of a bottom six forward.

Fun fact, the team has barely changed any processes since ditching Hextall. For all the blame you drop on him, they loved how he operated and built on it. Kept all his players. Are following his model again. They loved how he ran the hockey stuff, their whole beef was with him not making Clarke feel special.

Or more likely, "his" model is simply the Flyers model and is part of being from the Clarke management tree.

 

[deadhead]

Fun fact, the team has barely changed any processes since ditching Hextall. For all the blame you drop on him, they loved how he operated and built on it. Kept all his players. Are following his model again. They loved how he ran the hockey stuff, their whole beef was with him not making Clarke feel special.

Or more likely, "his" model is simply the Flyers model and is part of being from the Clarke management tree.

Kept all his players?
(14) 1st and 2nd rd picks, Hart, Sanheim, TK, Farabee and Frost are the only ones left.
Other picks, Cates, Ersson, Zamula.

That's 8 players.