2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,488
171,195
Armored Train
love the clarke hate. He hasnt changed the story. He got the players name wrong. Believe what you like. Scouts and others have verified the story.

Slamming Ronald lol. Poor Ronald getting called out. What a shame. Nah just telling it like it is is how I see it

No, he changed the story depending on who the player of the day was. When Dallas was having a run, it was Heiskanen. Then he changed his mind when Colorado was having a run.

I agree Hextall deserves to be slammed. We don't need to rely on the lies of the worst thing to ever happen to this team to do so. Especially since a purpose of those lies is to make Hextall more of a scapegoat than he is in order to divert blame and attention away from the real problem: Clarke and his cronies at all levels of the org, almost all of whom are still here.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
56,994
45,414
love the clarke hate. He hasnt changed the story. He got the players name wrong. Believe what you like. Scouts and others have verified the story.
Who verified your story that no one on the Flyers wanted to move Provorov a week before the Flyers moved Provorov? :snide:
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
Who verified your story that no one on the Flyers wanted to move Provorov a week before the Flyers moved Provorov? :snide:
Had he not asked out he would still be on the roster. tony d. Next question.

No, he changed the story depending on who the player of the day was. When Dallas was having a run, it was Heiskanen. Then he changed his mind when Colorado was having a run.

I agree Hextall deserves to be slammed. We don't need to rely on the lies of the worst thing to ever happen to this team to do so. Especially since a purpose of those lies is to make Hextall more of a scapegoat than he is in order to divert blame and attention away from the real problem: Clarke and his cronies at all levels of the org, almost all of whom are still here.
scouts and others, besides clarke said it was Heiskanen. Believe what you like.

Had nothing to do with diverting blame. Patrick was irrelevant at that point. Keep pushing the lies false narrative.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,488
171,195
Armored Train
tony d. Next question.


scouts and others, besides clarke said it was Heiskanen. Believe what you like.

Clarke was the source of those claims, not scouts. Scouts actually leaked refutations.

Had nothing to do with diverting blame. Patrick was irrelevant at that point. Keep pushing the lies false narrative.

It has everything to do with scapegoating an enemy and diverting blame from his people. Clarke is that petty. It's who he has always been. He's really quite shitty.

You're the one who has the narrative wholly wrong.
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
Clarke was the source of those claims, not scouts. Scouts actually leaked refutations.



It has everything to do with scapegoating an enemy and diverting blame from his people. Clarke is that petty. It's who he has always been. He's really quite shitty.

You're the one who has the narrative wholly wrong.
Clarke said it first. Then others in the organization corrected him and said it wasn't makar. That is a fact. you choose to believe what you like.

Clarke told it like it is, you don't like hid approach is all. Him being petty and shitty has noting to do with him saying others didn't want Patrick.

I have no narrative.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,054
22,231
Intriguing to lay blame at the feet of the general managers throughout the last 20 years but ignore the failures of the scouting department directly responsible.
1st rd picks are almost the GM, 2nd rd picks more a mix (obviously, Ron was behind Ratcliffe), after that I'd say it's mostly scouts.
Gms have time to look at film on 20-30 players, but not 200-300, so they probably focus on the top picks and depend on their scouts for other picks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Don Nachbaur 26

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
1st rd picks are almost the GM, 2nd rd picks more a mix (obviously, Ron was behind Ratcliffe), after that I'd say it's mostly scouts.
Gms have time to look at film on 20-30 players, but not 200-300, so they probably focus on the top picks and depend on their scouts for other picks.
good GM's without an ego are probably the most successful in the later rounds. Just a guess on my part.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
12,935
29,436
Winnipeg
1st rd picks are almost the GM, 2nd rd picks more a mix (obviously, Ron was behind Ratcliffe), after that I'd say it's mostly scouts.
Gms have time to look at film on 20-30 players, but not 200-300, so they probably focus on the top picks and depend on their scouts for other picks.

Cool

The Flyers have found jack shit in terms of noteworthy talent outside of the first round in 20 years

Arrogant, incompetent, and privileged old pigs with lifetime jobs
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
Sponsor
Sep 24, 2009
23,702
4,654
NJ
good GM's without an ego are probably the most successful in the later rounds. Just a guess on my part.
Honestly all the later round picks are educated guesses at best. Finding a Lundqvist or Zetterbeg or Datsyuk or Rinne whomever is not because those GMs or scouts really thought any of those guys would have the career they had or had some secret information that only they were aware of. Someone saw something and said "oh this guy's shot/skating/defense/whatever looks promising" and you just wish and pray they make the NHL one day. That's probably 75% of drafting and scouts/GMs that make those calls probably miss 95% of the time. It's all luck at that point.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Ironmanrulez

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
Honestly all the later round picks are educated guesses at best. Finding a Lundqvist or Zetterbeg or Datsyuk or Rinne whomever is not because those GMs or scouts really thought any of those guys would have the career they had or had some secret information that only they were aware of. Someone saw something and said "oh this guy's shot/skating/defense/whatever looks promising" and you just wish and pray they make the NHL one day. That's probably 75% of drafting and scouts/GMs that make those calls probably miss 95% of the time. It's all luck at that point.
I dont disagree with the educated guess part. It is all about projections. Some of the I am the smartest guy in the room GM's may not delegate (if that is the right word in this intance) as much.

I never understood why in the 6/7th rd you don't take the guy who has the highest skill level (or highest ranked prospect), or a younger (or not) college player who you can control for 4 years and take a shot.

Instead of the Mann types who in 2023 are unlikely to even have an AH career.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,288
156,975
Pennsylvania
The source for that is a Bob Clarke who has changed the story, and been contradicted by other internal sources. Clarke is a lowlife liar who is extremely petty and will say anything he has to in order to slam a Hextall that didn't worship him sufficiently. He isn't a reliable source. He isn't useful for anything, actually.
It’s always smart to uncritically believe someone who can’t even agree with himself.

So which one of Clarkes claims are we supposed to believe? Heiskanen or Makar? If it’s now Makar that’s undeniably true then I’d like people to explain why he was lying about the former but now we have to trust he’s right this time with no proof.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ironmanrulez

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
It’s always smart to uncritically believe someone who can’t even agree with himself.

So which one of Clarkes claims are we supposed to believe? Heiskanen or Makar? If it’s now Makar that’s undeniably true then I’d like people to explain why he was lying about the former but now we have to trust he’s right this time with no proof.
old age perhaps, forgot the player. Nah cant be it. He is 100% lying. Protecting Chuck. slamming Ronald. Love proof
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
Sponsor
Sep 24, 2009
23,702
4,654
NJ
I dont disagree with the educated guess part. It is all about projections. Some of the I am the smartest guy in the room GM's may not delegate (if that is the right word in this intance) as much.

I never understood why in the 6/7th rd you don't take the guy who has the highest skill level (or highest ranked prospect), or a younger (or not) college player who you can control for 4 years and take a shot.

Instead of the Mann types who in 2023 are unlikely to even have an AH career.
Yeah I mean I understand it from both ends. You take the guy with the highest end skill or you take the guy with the quality you most want in a player. It's really six of one, half a dozen of the other. The skill guy is just as likely to never be heard from again as the guy that you select because he is whatever trait you are looking for. There really isn't a bad pick you can make or a good pick you can make in the later rounds. There are only lucky picks once you get past a certain point. One GM/Scouts opinion that Player X has potential to be a steal is no less or more valid than another GM/Scouts opinion that Player Y has the potential to be a steal. It's a crapshoot.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
56,994
45,414
Believe what you like.
Love seeing this refrain over and over from a guy who believes Provorov's desire to move on from Philly was only communicated to the Flyers days before he was traded in a complex 3-way deal. :biglaugh:

pure speculation. No one who matters in the flyers wants to move him. Will or can that change? sure. Ivan also hasnt asked out as of very recently.

Jun. 6, 2023

Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire:​

Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets

From LAK:
Ivan Provorov ($2,025,000 retained - 30%) · $4,725,000
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ironmanrulez

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
Love seeing this refrain over and over from a guy who believes Provorov's desire to move on from Philly was only communicated to the Flyers days before he was traded in a complex 3-way deal. :biglaugh:



Jun. 6, 2023

Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire:​

Logo of the Columbus Blue Jackets

From LAK:
Ivan Provorov ($2,025,000 retained - 30%) · $4,725,000
you are a boring induvial. what I said was and will clarify again is they wouldn't have moved him if he didn't ask out. This is a fact. So you keep going. Post a chart in the mean time showing how sanheim is a top pair dman.

complex deal. very complex. wow so surprised it got done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tnfrs

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
79,242
87,028
Nova Scotia
old age perhaps, forgot the player. Nah cant be it. He is 100% lying. Protecting Chuck. slamming Ronald. Love proof
Maybe old man Clarke meant Patrick?

Said it was Heisk.....must believe him.
Came out it wasn't Heisk.
Said it was Makar....must believe him.

This is a man who forgot Giroux's name at the draft podium. How could he forget the name of the guy HE wants most. You know, because the GM'S make all the decisions early in the draft.

If you don't think Clarke had an agenda vs Hextall once fired, then you are delusional. Why didn't Clarke open his big mouth in 2017? Or 18? Or 19?

Also, do people forget that we saw 1st hand what goes into draft lists behind the scenes? We saw those lists changing without a GM in the room. We saw guys dropping in a list because he was a F and not a dman. Christ we SAW a vet scout say he likes a guy more "because he will hit a guy with his f***ing stick and stuff".

Reality is, this was a 2 person draft early on and no one was in the top 2 convo all season besides those 2. But we should believe a forgetful advisor 4 years later who already "miss-remembered" 1 year earlier on who they wanted. Laughable.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,488
171,195
Armored Train
No one loves Clarke more than me, but you need to separate any feelings you have from early Clarke to last 15 years Clarke. It isn't that difficult.

Clarke the Manager has been so bad that it now means Clarke the Player was bad too. I'd place him in the latter-day Lehtera Tier as a generous ranking. Imagine how many Cups they could have won with an actual NHL player as 1C!
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,485
1,659
Maybe old man Clarke meant Patrick?

Said it was Heisk.....must believe him.
Came out it wasn't Heisk.
Said it was Makar....must believe him.

This is a man who forgot Giroux's name at the draft podium. How could he forget the name of the guy HE wants most. You know, because the GM'S make all the decisions early in the draft.

If you don't think Clarke had an agenda vs Hextall once fired, then you are delusional. Why didn't Clarke open his big mouth in 2017? Or 18? Or 19?

Also, do people forget that we saw 1st hand what goes into draft lists behind the scenes? We saw those lists changing without a GM in the room. We saw guys dropping in a list because he was a F and not a dman. Christ we SAW a vet scout say he likes a guy more "because he will hit a guy with his f***ing stick and stuff".

Reality is, this was a 2 person draft early on and no one was in the top 2 convo all season besides those 2. But we should believe a forgetful advisor 4 years later who already "miss-remembered" 1 year earlier on who they wanted. Laughable.
ronald was still the GM. He was asked a question at the end of an hour long interview. Yep such an agenda tho throw ronald under the bus. Def was planned no doubt.

The simple fact is others didnt want Patrick, why that is hard for peeps to accept who knows.
 

Adam Warlock

Registered User
Apr 15, 2006
7,050
6,962
Torts' 2023-2024 Flyers!

Hathaway-Cates-Atkinson
Deslauries-Coots-Tippett
Laughton-Poehling-TK
Farabee-Allison

Staal-Risto (25 MIN A NIGHT)
Seeler-Walker
Sanheim-York
Zamula

11F 7D. Frost and Farabee rotate in the press box with Laczynski

Brink, Attard, Foerster, Andrae, etc play in the minors bc they need to add muscle or some BS. May get called up in march.

Zamula gets waived midseason and claimed.

#HARDTOPLAYAGAINST
#THESTANDARD
 

DancingPanther

Foundational Titan
Jun 19, 2018
33,900
72,142
Clarke the Manager has been so bad that it now means Clarke the Player was bad too. I'd place him in the latter-day Lehtera Tier as a generous ranking. Imagine how many Cups they could have won with an actual NHL player as 1C!
I have a couple friends who were better than Clarke in his prime when they were playing junior B. Those dudes back then f***ing sucked
 

FromOyVey2Matvei

Registered User
Jul 15, 2023
1,025
1,276
Philadelphia
Lol you actually believe this bullshit that Clarke said 4 years after the draft to deflect criticism away from his chosen one Fletcher?

There was NEVER a single rumor of the Flyers or their scouts having interest in Makar on draft day or in the 4 years after until Clarke's interview in January of 2021, when Makar was already an established star in the NHL and the entire fanbase was marching on the doors of the Wells with pitchforks because Fletcher turned them into a laughing stock.

There were rumblings that SOME of the scouts preferred Heiskanen to Patrick.

The pick was ALWAYS going to be Patrick if Hischier went 1st. How could it not be? He was the consensus #2 pick from every scouting source and the Flyers needed to draft a future 1C. He was seen as having that potential. It wasn't bad process to draft Patrick. It a combination of bad development and bad luck that he didn't work out.

This revisionist history about the Patrick pick by gullible fools that believe Clarkes lies is really quite sad.
No, of course I don't just believe anything Bobby Clarke spews. He's responsible for so much of the pain we've experienced as Flyers fans with his own horrible GMing. I strongly dislike Clarke. I included that point as an aside to the fact that I like the last 2 drafts and to add to the point that I don't think anyone here really knows if the scouts are any good or not because of the two eggheads we had running things in Hextall and Fletcher.

To your statement of "how could it be anyone else?" with respect to Patrick, I'd counter with "What about Shane Wright?" Similar circumstances to Patrick... consensus lock #1 entering his draft year, his status dropped a little on the basis of his play, but in Wright's case, he was still #1 on almost every scouting service's board. He slipped to #4 because 1-3 had the conviction in their scouts/process to ignore the "obvious" safe pick.

We could've and should've done the same.

Whether the scouts really wanted Makar or Heiskanen we will probably never know. I saw a few stories/sources mentioning the scouts liking Heiskanen well before the Bob Clarke teardown of Hextall (and to your point, I hadn't really seen Makar come up), but what I think has been made painfully obvious at this point via the numerous stories that have come out about Hextall in Philly and Pittsburgh is that Ron had little respect for others opinions and was committed to doing what he wanted, when he wanted, without explaining himself.

I'd find it difficult to endorse a statement like "the scouts suck" or "we need to clean house in the scouting department" when that was their boss.

The fact that those scouts then had to report to Chuck Fletcher directly after Hextall left is just even more icing on top of the cake.

Patrick had been played up by the Canadian press to be the #1 selection for two years. With the ties that Hextall had with the family there was no way that he was going to pass on making him the selection. He was hoping that the Devils would take Hischier and jumped on the Patrick choice as quickly as he could. Maker and Heiskanen were never on his radar.
Yeah, pretty much this. Hextall was never going to even consider someone else if Patrick was on the board. That's the very definition of a bad process. Didn't matter what any of his scouts or advisors thought.
 

FromOyVey2Matvei

Registered User
Jul 15, 2023
1,025
1,276
Philadelphia
Their biggest problem was the win now mandate, which lead CF to trade away draft picks instead of accumulating them.
When all is said and done, Chuck/Flahr's draft record might look OK, or even above average, but to explain away the entire mess they created here by blaming a mandate from higher ups is wrong. You only need look at the mess Chuckles left in his wake in Minnesota to show what a horrible GM he was. I'm not sure a GM has ever left two franchises in as bad a place as Chuck did. He was terrible at his job and deserves to be held accountable for that.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Beef Invictus

FromOyVey2Matvei

Registered User
Jul 15, 2023
1,025
1,276
Philadelphia
No, he changed the story depending on who the player of the day was. When Dallas was having a run, it was Heiskanen. Then he changed his mind when Colorado was having a run.

I agree Hextall deserves to be slammed. We don't need to rely on the lies of the worst thing to ever happen to this team to do so. Especially since a purpose of those lies is to make Hextall more of a scapegoat than he is in order to divert blame and attention away from the real problem: Clarke and his cronies at all levels of the org, almost all of whom are still here.
I'm just curious if you actually misremember this stuff, intentionally lie, or if you dislike the current Flyers so much that your brain actually alters your memory. Clarke has never changed his story as best as I can tell or the two players he claims the scouts liked. There's also been multiple independent confirmations of the scouts liking Heiskanen.

Do you have some type of link to where Clarke "changed his story" in your mind? I searched and couldn't find anything that could even remotely qualify.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blackjackmulligan
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad