2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

[deadhead]

Problem with trading Frost is it would leave a huge hole at center this season.
No one ticketed for LHV is ready to play at the NHL level, so Couts - Cates - Laughton - Poehling would be your centers.
However, if a deal for a young RHD with 1st pair potential were to surface, all bets are off.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Problem with trading Frost is it would leave a huge hole at center this season.
No one ticketed for LHV is ready to play at the NHL level, so Couts - Cates - Laughton - Poehling would be your centers.
However, if a deal for a young RHD with 1st pair potential were to surface, all bets are off.

Do you think he has that kind of value?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Problem with trading Frost is it would leave a huge hole at center this season.
No one ticketed for LHV is ready to play at the NHL level, so Couts - Cates - Laughton - Poehling would be your centers.
However, if a deal for a young RHD with 1st pair potential were to surface, all bets are off.

Who cares?

 

[deadhead]

Do you think he has that kind of value?

As part of a package, not by himself.

Interesting side note, Carolina doesn't have an AHL affiliate this season, so depth could be a problem (they have to park prospects all over the world), maybe one reason for the generous TDA payment was to ensure good relations if a string of injuries leaves Waddell searching for depth players this season.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

As part of a package, not by himself.

Interesting side note, Carolina doesn't have an AHL affiliate this season, so depth could be a problem (they have to park prospects all over the world), maybe one reason for the generous TDA payment was to ensure good relations if a string of injuries leaves Waddell searching for depth players this season.

Where do you come up with this shit?

 

[deadhead]

Where do you come up with this shit?

Just speculating, this is a sports thread, if I had a source, I'd link it.

But Waddell was generous, partially to protect his reputation (a handshake deal was made), but most GMs understand that its a "repeated game," shafting another GM can sour relations when you might need them to help you out down the road. Flyers are unlikely to be a PO team, so they'll be willing to deal, and Waddell has stockpiled 2nd tier prospects who'd be attractive to the Flyers. Nor do the franchises have a history of enmity. So it makes sense for Waddell to want to maintain good relations with Briere - if a string of injuries hit, someone like Seeler could be a good stopgap, for example.

 

[Cody Webster]

In 2023, how does an NHL team not have an AHL affiliate?

 

[Curufinwe]

Where do you come up with this shit?

The same shitty place he came up with the idea that Staal was signed to be the #7.

 

[deadhead]

In 2023, how does an NHL team not have an AHL affiliate?

Seems their agreement ran out, and Chicago went independent. They plan to arrange for a new affiliate in 2024-25.
But it does cause problems:

"For starters, the Hurricanes currently do not have any AHL veterans signed to two-way contracts. Last season, the Canes had 10 two-way contracts, meaning they had plenty of organizational depth.

The Hurricanes have done a bit to address that concern though, with the signings of Tony DeAngelo, Caleb Jones, Dylan Coghlan and Brendan Lemieux and that's also probably the reason why the team is currently carrying nine defensemen; because of the need for that accessible depth."

“We already have a couple of deals with NHL teams where we’ll put two or three players," Waddell told The Hockey News before the draft. "It’s not an ideal situation, but it’s the cards we were dealt this year, so we’re going to make the best of it and hopefully put ourselves in a position to be back with somebody for the start of next season.”

"You no longer control your own fate or your own destiny with your players," said NHL.com reporter Patrick Williams on The Hockey News - On the 'A' podcast. "You're now depending on the goodwill and the grace of other NHL clubs and their general managers to help you out."

The Hurricanes have been dealt a bad hand and while they are confident they can work something out for the 2024-25 season, there's no guarantee that will even happen.

There are currently 32 AHL teams so the Canes either have to hope a team comes up for sale (unlikely given that another team would wind up in the same position) or fork over a ton of money to start up a new one which delves into even more problems such as finding a suitable home with an appropriate stadium, an amicable local government, a convenient transportation hub and so many more.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/analysis/what-lack-of-ahl-affiliate-means-for-carolina-hurricanes

 

[Cody Webster]

Seems their agreement ran out, and Chicago went independent. They plan to arrange for a new affiliate in 2024-25.
But it does cause problems:

"For starters, the Hurricanes currently do not have any AHL veterans signed to two-way contracts. Last season, the Canes had 10 two-way contracts, meaning they had plenty of organizational depth.

The Hurricanes have done a bit to address that concern though, with the signings of Tony DeAngelo, Caleb Jones, Dylan Coghlan and Brendan Lemieux and that's also probably the reason why the team is currently carrying nine defensemen; because of the need for that accessible depth."

“We already have a couple of deals with NHL teams where we’ll put two or three players," Waddell told The Hockey News before the draft. "It’s not an ideal situation, but it’s the cards we were dealt this year, so we’re going to make the best of it and hopefully put ourselves in a position to be back with somebody for the start of next season.”

"You no longer control your own fate or your own destiny with your players," said NHL.com reporter Patrick Williams on The Hockey News - On the 'A' podcast. "You're now depending on the goodwill and the grace of other NHL clubs and their general managers to help you out."

The Hurricanes have been dealt a bad hand and while they are confident they can work something out for the 2024-25 season, there's no guarantee that will even happen.

There are currently 32 AHL teams so the Canes either have to hope a team comes up for sale (unlikely given that another team would wind up in the same position) or fork over a ton of money to start up a new one which delves into even more problems such as finding a suitable home with an appropriate stadium, an amicable local government, a convenient transportation hub and so many more.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/analysis/what-lack-of-ahl-affiliate-means-for-carolina-hurricanes

That's crazy and pretty Mickey Mouseish. So their prospects are just playing on different AHL teams?

How does the NHL allow an AHL team to be independent? Doesn't make sense.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

As part of a package, not by himself.

Interesting side note, Carolina doesn't have an AHL affiliate this season, so depth could be a problem (they have to park prospects all over the world), maybe one reason for the generous TDA payment was to ensure good relations if a string of injuries leaves Waddell searching for depth players this season.

what type of package with Frost gets you that type of player?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Has Risto become the Flyers' best defenseman?

When the Flyers executed the trade to acquire Rasmus Ristolainen, there were high hopes and expectations surrounding the young defenseman.

www.flyersinsider.com

ZINGGG....

 

[mja]

Problem with trading Frost is it would leave a huge hole at center this season.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought we were rebuilding?

Just speculating, this is a sports thread, if I had a source, I'd link it.

But Waddell was generous, partially to protect his reputation (a handshake deal was made), but most GMs understand that its a "repeated game," shafting another GM can sour relations when you might need them to help you out down the road. Flyers are unlikely to be a PO team, so they'll be willing to deal, and Waddell has stockpiled 2nd tier prospects who'd be attractive to the Flyers. Nor do the franchises have a history of enmity. So it makes sense for Waddell to want to maintain good relations with Briere - if a string of injuries hit, someone like Seeler could be a good stopgap, for example.

You seemed to have confused speculation with fantasy.

 

[deadhead]

Has Risto become the Flyers' best defenseman?

When the Flyers executed the trade to acquire Rasmus Ristolainen, there were high hopes and expectations surrounding the young defenseman.

www.flyersinsider.com

ZINGGG....

York is obviously their best defenseman.
But - xGFrel
York +5.89
Seeler +4.69
Zamula +4.07 (14g)
Braun +0.43
Risto -0.19
Sanheim -3.04
Provorov -3.46
TDA -3.84

Seeler was sheltered on the 3rd pair, so that explains some of his performance.
Provorov got the toughest matchups, so he should rebound on the 2nd pair in CBJ

This was the first season in Risto's career when he had a xGArel that was negative (i.e. better than his teammates), so their attempt to retrain him to be a defense first defenseman seemed to have worked - the next step is to continue to improve his defense while become more of an offense force.

Sanheim is generally average defensively, but this was the first season in his career where he was subpar offensively, so I expect a rebound back to his norm. Part of his issue may have been that he's not a good finisher, so while he's excellent at carrying the puck through the neutral zone, he needs talented forwards to give the puck to in the O-zone to be effective.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

York is obviously their best defenseman.
But - xGFrel
York +5.89
Seeler +4.69
Zamula +4.07 (14g)
Braun +0.43
Risto -0.19
Sanheim -3.04
Provorov -3.46
TDA -3.84

Seeler was sheltered on the 3rd pair, so that explains some of his performance.
Provorov got the toughest matchups, so he should rebound on the 2nd pair in CBJ

This was the first season in Risto's career when he had a xGArel that was negative (i.e. better than his teammates), so their attempt to retrain him to be a defense first defenseman seemed to have worked - the next step is to continue to improve his defense while become more of an offense force.

Sanheim is generally average defensively, but this was the first season in his career where he was subpar offensively, so I expect a rebound back to his norm. Part of his issue may have been that he's not a good finisher, so while he's excellent at carrying the puck through the neutral zone, he needs talented forwards to give the puck to in the O-zone to be effective.

they should use what he does best, his offensive ability. Let him play to his strengths. A defense first dman isn't it. He isnt even this physical dman peeps think he is at all.

 

[deadhead]

they should use what he does best, his offensive ability. Let him play to his strengths. A defense first dman isn't it. He isnt even this physical dman peeps think he is at all.

But Risto isn't an offensive first D-man, he's not that great carrying the puck or passing, his strength is his strength (good net front) and his shot. So ideally he's be "Robin" to a "Batman" like Sanheim, be the CYA guy like Braun was, and sneaking into the O-zone when the defense rotates away from him to be in position for a pass and an open shot.

He's improved defensively b/c Shaw got him to stop chasing hits, focus on positioning and use his length to break up plays.

This is probably one of the rare examples where a player was simply used wrong for most of his career, I think like Provorov, the high draft position caused the organization to try to make him into something he wasn't. In Provorov's case, there was an ego issue, Provorov's one hot shooting season fooled him into thinking he should be a play driving D-man and he's resisted the "Defense first" role.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

But Risto isn't an offensive first D-man, he's not that great carrying the puck or passing, his strength is his strength (good net front) and his shot. So ideally he's be "Robin" to a "Batman" like Sanheim, be the CYA guy like Braun was, and sneaking into the O-zone when the defense rotates away from him to be in position for a pass and an open shot.

He's improved defensively b/c Shaw got him to stop chasing hits, focus on positioning and use his length to break up plays.

This is probably one of the rare examples where a player was simply used wrong for most of his career, I think like Provorov, the high draft position caused the organization to try to make him into something he wasn't. In Provorov's case, there was an ego issue, Provorov's one hot shooting season fooled him into thinking he should be a play driving D-man and he's resisted the "Defense first" role.

thats what he was and that was when he was "productive". To extract any value from his hideous contract he should be on the 1dt unit PP

He improved when he was used in a sheltered 3rd pair role plus the passive system they played. When he is back in a top 4 role cinderella will return. He never was and never will be a defense first dman.

He was used wrong, good lord. Yep should have had risto on the bottom pair his entire nhl career

 

[Curufinwe]

This was the first season in Risto's career when he had a xGArel that was negative (i.e. better than his teammates),

This was the first, and only season, when Risto played on a team with Angelo but almost never shared the ice with him because they're both right handed.

Not hard to figure out if you think about it.

TOI With = 37:07

TOI Away = 905:03

Provorov spent 436:12 with Angelo and Sanheim spent 331:19 with him. They'll never have a regular partner who is worse at defense than they guy Chuck Fletcher traded 3 picks for.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This was the first, and only season, when Risto played on a team with Angelo but almost never shared the ice with him because they're both right handed.

Not hard to figure out if you think about it.

TOI With = 37:07

TOI Away = 905:03

Provorov spent 436:12 with Angelo and Sanheim spent 331:19 with him. They'll never have a regular partner who is worse at defense than they guy Chuck Fletcher traded 3 picks for.

One always wonders why this sort of context isn't considered.

There's also the fact that Risto was still doing a ton of stupid stuff, but it wasn't punished as severely because Tortorella aggressively keeps forwards back on D so he had plenty of support on hand.

 

[wasup]

But Risto isn't an offensive first D-man, he's not that great carrying the puck or passing, his strength is his strength (good net front) and his shot. So ideally he's be "Robin" to a "Batman" like Sanheim, be the CYA guy like Braun was, and sneaking into the O-zone when the defense rotates away from him to be in position for a pass and an open shot.

He's improved defensively b/c Shaw got him to stop chasing hits, focus on positioning and use his length to break up plays.

This is probably one of the rare examples where a player was simply used wrong for most of his career, I think like Provorov, the high draft position caused the organization to try to make him into something he wasn't. In Provorov's case, there was an ego issue, Provorov's one hot shooting season fooled him into thinking he should be a play driving D-man and he's resisted the "Defense first" role.

He improved some from not chasing hits but it's when he has the puck on his stick . He is awful at just throwing the puck away up the boards or to no one . His transistion is complete shit cause his head don't work . This is the part of Big Z's game I like along with York . Z's problem is he is over confident with the puck so hangs onto it a big to much sometimes and gets it picked off , that will drive coaches crazy .

I don't have to use fancy stats and analytics to see what's going on and you constantly using them just proves your eye test ain't so good . Analytics are to try and confirm what you eye test is telling you " not the other way around " . There is way to much inconsistancy ' just ' using the fancy numbers .

 

[Beef Invictus]

But Risto isn't an offensive first D-man, he's not that great carrying the puck or passing, his strength is his strength (good net front) and his shot. So ideally he's be "Robin" to a "Batman" like Sanheim, be the CYA guy like Braun was, and sneaking into the O-zone when the defense rotates away from him to be in position for a pass and an open shot.

He's improved defensively b/c Shaw got him to stop chasing hits, focus on positioning and use his length to break up plays.

This is probably one of the rare examples where a player was simply used wrong for most of his career, I think like Provorov, the high draft position caused the organization to try to make him into something he wasn't. In Provorov's case, there was an ego issue, Provorov's one hot shooting season fooled him into thinking he should be a play driving D-man and he's resisted the "Defense first" role.

He's dreadful netfront. He isn't a "strong" player.

 

[Tripod]

"Well you see, since Dec 7th when Shaw fixed him...."

 

[deadhead]

He improved some from not chasing hits but it's when he has the puck on his stick . He is awful at just throwing the puck away up the boards or to no one . His transistion is complete shit cause his head don't work . This is the part of Big Z's game I like along with York . Z's problem is he is over confident with the puck so hangs onto it a big to much sometimes and gets it picked off , that will drive coaches crazy .

I don't have to use fancy stats and analytics to see what's going on and you constantly using them just proves your eye test ain't so good . Analytics are to try and confirm what you eye test is telling you " not the other way around " . There is way to much inconsistancy ' just ' using the fancy numbers .

Which is what I said, Risto needs to play a simple game, stop rush, retrieve puck, get puck to teammate. Don't try to do too much.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

LOCKED.

#4 -- 2023-24 Roster Thread 4: September is National Bourbon Heritage Month