2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

[Beef Invictus]

Tortorella impressed by Zamula, Foerster in Flyers' win

John Tortorella discussed the promising performances from Flyers prospects Egor Zamula and Tyson Foerster.

www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com

Egor Zamula​

“He’s long, takes up a lot of space. The thing caught our eye was his ability to see the ice. It looks like he has the ability to make a play. I thought — before we sent him back down — I thought it was a struggle for him at the speed of what the game was being played here.” — March 20

“I thought Z — I’m not sure how his assists come about — but just watching his game, I thought he had some really good puck poise.” — March 21

“He sees the ice, but he’s got to move the puck quicker. I think that’s part of his progression, is move the puck quick. You see the play — move it. Move the puck harder, too. Pass it harder. That’s one thing we noticed in his first game back here. He knows it’s there, but he eases the puck over there. Snap it over there and let’s get going.” — March 23

Subjective interpretation: As with York, Tortorella likes Zamula’s tools. His main questions are with regard to Zamula’s pace of play. He’ll be in the mix at camp next September, and remains a player who Tortorella likes.

Ronnie Attard​

“I think he’s raw. I think there’s some work to do. The biggest positives for me? He’s long, he’s right-hand shot, and I like — he makes a decision and goes with it. There’s no in-between with him.”

“There’s something there. He certainly wasn’t out of place. He has a lot to work on, as to be expected at that position. But I thought he equipped himself well.” — April 8

Subjective interpretation: Another prospect who received a late-season recall and impressed Tortorella, but not to the point where he’s penciling Attard into the 2023-24 lineup.

The Tortorella Index: Where do all the Flyers stand entering the offseason?

As the Flyers season ends, here's the read on how Tortorella evaluates every player on the roster.

theathletic.com

Zamula underwent shoulder surgery, though he is expected to recover in time for training camp this fall. And just like he did this season, Tortorella wants to add more youth to the Flyers lineup, especially on the backend.

Flyers sign Egor Zamula to one-year extension

John Tortorella wants more youth on the backend this season and he is going to get it as the Flyers have signed Egor Zamula to a one-year extension.

broadstreetbuzz.com

If he likes him why didn't he play him

 

[tnfrs]

It’s about development not just immediate talent. Seeler isn’t going to get any better. Andrae can

how do you know that Andrae can be better?

 

[deadhead]

However Seeler only looks decent on a third pairing with sheltered minutes. Move him up the roster and he’s lost. Why not try to see if someone else can’t give you more.
How is Andrae playing in Sweden going to make him a better player in a year than him doing a year in the NHL against better competition? Guys improve by going up against better competition in more competitive environments. Not to put down the SHL but the players aren’t as good and the rink size doesn’t create the speed of the game that the smaller NHL ones do.

Playing against NHL competition can set a player back if he's not ready.
The SHL is the third best league in the world after the NHL and KHL, and it's close to the KHL and above the AHL.
So if they don't deem him ready, or just as likely, don't want him taking minutes from Zamula, it's not the end of the world if he spends another season in the SHL. He's only 21, and give his size, a little more physical maturity wouldn't hurt.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i fully expect they will add at least one more UFA vet before training camp...

 

[Beef Invictus]

Playing against NHL competition can set a player back if he's not ready.
The SHL is the third best league in the world after the NHL and KHL, and it's close to the KHL and above the AHL.
So if they don't deem him ready, or just as likely, don't want him taking minutes from Zamula, it's not the end of the world if he spends another season in the SHL. He's only 21, and give his size, a little more physical maturity wouldn't hurt.

The first sentence has been thoroughly debunked multiple ways by multiple people over the years. It's nonsense. No career has been damaged or ended because a player got in the NHL too soon. It is a myth. It isn't real.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The first sentence has been thoroughly debunked multiple ways by multiple people over the years. It's nonsense. No career has been damaged or ended because a player got in the NHL too soon. It is a myth. It isn't real.

Has a player's career been damaged or ended because he played extra time in the AHL or another pro league? Asking for a friend.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Has a player's career been damaged or ended because he played extra time in the AHL or another pro league? Asking for a friend.

Depends on the organization. I'd say everyone playing for Lappy and Gordon before him is/was damaged. Myers is an excellent example, where the best dman factory in the league got their hands on him and were shocked at how he'd been ruined.

And NAK, who was struggling here and Colorado stated he was being used wrong here when they picked him up. Just regular Flyers development stuff.

 

[captainpaxil]

Have you not watched risto?

 

[tnfrs]

i fully expect they will add at least one more UFA vet before training camp...

I think its more likely someone we're not expecting gets waived or traded. I also think if it turns out that the current youth arent going to get better and if everyone looks like a bag of shit at the start of the season that the plans will change and Danny will fire sale. It makes more sense to do that kind of thing in seasons where the cap goes up. Our forwards arent a bad group IF Frost Farabee and Cates have improved + Tippett etc, and if theyve all improved youre adding Cutter next year already. And maybe Foerster is good enough on the RW that trading TK serves both purposes? It wont take all season to figure it out for the most part, but I think its worth seeing what every one can do with no distractions this year now that everyone seems to be on the same page.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Have you not watched risto?

Which part of his game would have been fixed by AHL time?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

“He’s long, takes up a lot of space.”

Ok, that might be worse than “eats Minutes.”

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Depends on the organization. I'd say everyone playing for Lappy and Gordon before him is/was damaged. Myers is an excellent example, where the best dman factory in the league got their hands on him and were shocked at how he'd been ruined.

And NAK, who was struggling here and Colorado stated he was being used wrong here when they picked him up. Just regular Flyers development stuff.

Myers? The guy that went undrafted, then had a good year in juniors as an overager, then never did anything else should have been in the NHL sooner than 22 or 23 or however old he was? He would have been better if played in the NHL sooner? And NAK? A guy that was a second rounder that didn't have a super impressive junior career should have been in the NHL sooner? And the reason he isn't good is because he wasn't in the NHL sooner? Come on.

Weren't you one of the guys that used to preach patience whenever someone dared to talk about a prospect's flaws or values? I remember after several years of drafting Morin people melted down when I posed the question of when we should start to worry about him and I was met with claims that 1) defensemen take longer to develop and we should not rush it and also that 2) bigger guys take even longer to develop. That was the mantra here for years. Now we've come full circle to time in the monors hurts them? Gimme a break! I can't wait until you start posting about how Michael Leighton isn't the reason we lost in 2010!

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Myers? The guy that went undrafted, then had a good year in juniors as an overager, then never did anything else should have been in the NHL sooner than 22 or 23 or however old he was? He would have been better if played in the NHL sooner? And NAK? A guy that was a second rounder that didn't have a super impressive junior career should have been in the NHL sooner? And the reason he isn't good is because he wasn't in the NHL sooner? Come on.

Weren't you one of the guys that used to preach patience whenever someone dared to talk about a prospect's flaws or values? I remember after several years of drafting Morin people melted down when I posed the question of when we should start to worry about him and I was met with claims that 1) defensemen take longer to develop and we should not rush it and also that 2) bigger guys take even longer to develop. That was the mantra here for years. Now we've come full circle to time in the monors hurts them? Gimme a break! I can't wait until you start posting about how Michael Leighton isn't the reason we lost in 2010!

Yes Myers, who Nashville was shocked we ruined. Yes NAK, who Colorado identified as being used/developed down a wrong path and which they corrected. "MAXIMUM AHL" as a development method is a bad development method when your farm team is a disaster.

There's a massive difference between working out flaws and developing a player, and what the Flyers do. Which is the opposite of development. There comes a point where the AHL isn't going to do anything more for them and it's time for finding out what the are in the NHL. We are well past that point for several players.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Yes Myers, who Nashville was shocked we ruined.

What if I told you Phil Myers played really well for Tampa in a tiny sample size last year?

It’s not like I’d bet on him bouncing back for real. I’m just saying assuming he’s done is probably not correct.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What if I told you Phil Myers played really well for Tampa in a tiny sample size last year?

It’s not like I’d bet on him bouncing back for real. I’m just saying assuming he’s done is probably not correct.

There's also such a relentless, nonstop churn of new talent in pro sports that there is little incentive for teams to invest time and effort in repairing a broken player when they can just build up a new one properly. Myers's traits mean that he is probably going to get more of a chance than usual.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The Flyers love trying putting square pegs in round holes. Another words instead of using a young players strength on the ice they try and turn him something he’s not thereby taking away his strengths to make him be something in their image because of “the Flyers way”.
Then they wonder why the young player is struggling and they trade him or put him on waivers or trade him for nothing.
They pretty much ruin everything they touch. This is why myself and many others want the whole goddamn front office and coaching staff purged. Burn it all to the ground. Nothing changes until then.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

The Flyers love trying putting square pegs in round holes. Another words instead of using a young players strength on the ice they try and turn him something he’s not thereby taking away his strengths to make him be something in their image because of “the Flyers way”.
Then they wonder why the young player is struggling and they trade him or put him on waivers or trade him for nothing.
They pretty much ruin everything they touch. This is why myself and many others want the whole goddamn front office and coaching staff purged. Burn it all to the ground. Nothing changes until then.

Get this man a standing ovation already! The first sentence really sums up the rest. This team makes it harder on purpose.

 

[tnfrs]

i think some people would rather have the flyers fail just so they can be right in their post history. its 3 months into the rebuild, its worth seeing which of our forwards can be part of it because some of them will be part of the rebuild. As long as Sanheim and Risto are in the top 4 we're going to be shitty, so we can either try to give them partners that can maybe teach them or bring their trade value up, or we can have 2 rookies learn how to be shitty from Sanheim and Risto. Either way we lose games, but in my version we dont end up with 2 shitty rookies.

 

[deadhead]

The Flyers love trying putting square pegs in round holes. Another words instead of using a young players strength on the ice they try and turn him something he’s not thereby taking away his strengths to make him be something in their image because of “the Flyers way”.
Then they wonder why the young player is struggling and they trade him or put him on waivers or trade him for nothing.
They pretty much ruin everything they touch. This is why myself and many others want the whole goddamn front office and coaching staff purged. Burn it all to the ground. Nothing changes until then.

This is what's commonly referred to as an "urban myth."
For one thing, how come none of those players were used correctly by their new team and then blossomed?
Because their issue wasn't bad coaching but lack of talent.
If Myers becomes a decent D-man in TB, it'll be b/c he's paired with a veteran D-man who can cover for his mistakes. Sanheim couldn't do that.

Teaching defensive fundamentals doesn't stifle offense, unless you consider "cherry picking" an offensive skill.

Anyone who's actually watched the Flyers the last decade knows the problem has been talent, period.
TK is a good example, his first three years, he shone when on a line with G and Couts, struggled on any other line - what was the difference, talent!
Why didn't they keep him on the 1st line? b/c Voracek also struggled away from those two (though not as much as TK), for the same reason.
Playing with Patrick or Filppula or Laughton, much less Lehtera, Weal, or Knight, didn't raise the game of their linemates.

Why did Provorov regress? Look at his RHDs. When paired with Niskanen he looked 1st pair quality, when paired with TDA, he looked lost.
Sanheim has played his best hockey paired with Braun, a veteran CYA defensive defensemen.

When you have a lineup of secondary players, most can't carry a rookie, so you want to marinate prospects so they don't need to be carried.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Tortorella impressed by Zamula, Foerster in Flyers' win

John Tortorella discussed the promising performances from Flyers prospects Egor Zamula and Tyson Foerster.

www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com

Egor Zamula​

“He’s long, takes up a lot of space. The thing caught our eye was his ability to see the ice. It looks like he has the ability to make a play. I thought — before we sent him back down — I thought it was a struggle for him at the speed of what the game was being played here.” — March 20

“I thought Z — I’m not sure how his assists come about — but just watching his game, I thought he had some really good puck poise.” — March 21

“He sees the ice, but he’s got to move the puck quicker. I think that’s part of his progression, is move the puck quick. You see the play — move it. Move the puck harder, too. Pass it harder. That’s one thing we noticed in his first game back here. He knows it’s there, but he eases the puck over there. Snap it over there and let’s get going.” — March 23

Subjective interpretation: As with York, Tortorella likes Zamula’s tools. His main questions are with regard to Zamula’s pace of play. He’ll be in the mix at camp next September, and remains a player who Tortorella likes.

Ronnie Attard​

“I think he’s raw. I think there’s some work to do. The biggest positives for me? He’s long, he’s right-hand shot, and I like — he makes a decision and goes with it. There’s no in-between with him.”

“There’s something there. He certainly wasn’t out of place. He has a lot to work on, as to be expected at that position. But I thought he equipped himself well.” — April 8

Subjective interpretation: Another prospect who received a late-season recall and impressed Tortorella, but not to the point where he’s penciling Attard into the 2023-24 lineup.

The Tortorella Index: Where do all the Flyers stand entering the offseason?

As the Flyers season ends, here's the read on how Tortorella evaluates every player on the roster.

theathletic.com

Zamula underwent shoulder surgery, though he is expected to recover in time for training camp this fall. And just like he did this season, Tortorella wants to add more youth to the Flyers lineup, especially on the backend.

Flyers sign Egor Zamula to one-year extension

John Tortorella wants more youth on the backend this season and he is going to get it as the Flyers have signed Egor Zamula to a one-year extension.

broadstreetbuzz.com

seems odd then they didn't play him much down the stretch. Probably just coach talk.

Will believe it when I see it.

If Andrae isnt good enough for the NHL going to Sweden is his only option unless they agree to let him play for the Phantoms, if his development stalls against SHL competition then its going to stall in the NHL too. Danny is not beholden to Seeler, he didnt sign him, and hes 30 years old making the league minimum so if Andrae is better than Seeler its not exactly a hard choice to waive him, any team with an analytics department clever enough to see Seeler's value is also clever enough not to pay us for him so Dannys not going to let him get in anybodys way if theyre clearly better. Fletcher didnt leave Danny with a ton of options, and some of these contracts just have to be played out like Walker's, maybe he has value but nobody is lining up to help us rebuild and take him, but if Andrae isnt good enough to outplay Seeler then the competition in the SHL is probably just the right bowl of porridge for him.

I have to think they will work something out and he will stay in the States.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The first sentence has been thoroughly debunked multiple ways by multiple people over the years. It's nonsense. No career has been damaged or ended because a player got in the NHL too soon. It is a myth. It isn't real.

you sure about that? not one career? It isn't a myth as a player can def not reach his potential or what not if he isn't ready. It happens.

Depends on the organization. I'd say everyone playing for Lappy and Gordon before him is/was damaged. Myers is an excellent example, where the best dman factory in the league got their hands on him and were shocked at how he'd been ruined.

And NAK, who was struggling here and Colorado stated he was being used wrong here when they picked him up. Just regular Flyers development stuff.

ruined lol. Maybe just isn't that good. Why can't you acknowledge that in any way? Not even a possibility in your eyes. This ruined nonsense is just that nonsense. If he was any good he would be able to turn his career around and be a top 6 dman after playing for 2 top organizations after the flyers. NAk rules

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yes Myers, who Nashville was shocked we ruined. Yes NAK, who Colorado identified as being used/developed down a wrong path and which they corrected. "MAXIMUM AHL" as a development method is a bad development method when your farm team is a disaster.

There's a massive difference between working out flaws and developing a player, and what the Flyers do. Which is the opposite of development. There comes a point where the AHL isn't going to do anything more for them and it's time for finding out what the are in the NHL. We are well past that point for several players.

They corrected NAK yet didn't want to bring him back for a paltry 1 million. The lasted 2 weeks in Toronto. Love NAK. So the flyers development ruined NAK and Myers. Always makes my day when there is a NAK mention. Or Ghost.

This is not an endorsement of the flyers development in any way. There are definitely issues. Talking about 2 fringe NHL players is amusing though.

i think some people would rather have the flyers fail just so they can be right in their post history. its 3 months into the rebuild, its worth seeing which of our forwards can be part of it because some of them will be part of the rebuild. As long as Sanheim and Risto are in the top 4 we're going to be shitty, so we can either try to give them partners that can maybe teach them or bring their trade value up, or we can have 2 rookies learn how to be shitty from Sanheim and Risto. Either way we lose games, but in my version we dont end up with 2 shitty rookies.

what rebuild!!!!

This is what's commonly referred to as an "urban myth."
For one thing, how come none of those players were used correctly by their new team and then blossomed?
Because their issue wasn't bad coaching but lack of talent.
If Myers becomes a decent D-man in TB, it'll be b/c he's paired with a veteran D-man who can cover for his mistakes. Sanheim couldn't do that.

Teaching defensive fundamentals doesn't stifle offense, unless you consider "cherry picking" an offensive skill.

Anyone who's actually watched the Flyers the last decade knows the problem has been talent, period.
TK is a good example, his first three years, he shone when on a line with G and Couts, struggled on any other line - what was the difference, talent!
Why didn't they keep him on the 1st line? b/c Voracek also struggled away from those two (though not as much as TK), for the same reason.
Playing with Patrick or Filppula or Laughton, much less Lehtera, Weal, or Knight, didn't raise the game of their linemates.

Why did Provorov regress? Look at his RHDs. When paired with Niskanen he looked 1st pair quality, when paired with TDA, he looked lost.
Sanheim has played his best hockey paired with Braun, a veteran CYA defensive defensemen.

When you have a lineup of secondary players, most can't carry a rookie, so you want to marinate prospects so they don't need to be carried.

Chicago Young Americans?

 

[tnfrs]

what rebuild!!!!

Flyers are currently rebuilding

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Myers’ most common partner in Tampa last year was Haydn Fleury. Let’s just say he wasn’t carried and assume I put a bunch of numbers in here no one wants to read and I don’t want to spend the time curating. I think everyone knows by now that Fleury didn’t exactly work out.

Again, tiny sample size. I’m drawing no conclusions.