2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

[Chicken N Raffls]

View attachment 735411
Got this off the main boards , I guess Tort's really did fix RR . lol

I mean, he's #1. I'm impressed

 

[tnfrs]

Wouldn't count on that. Depends how some players develop, if Foerster is for real (looked very good in his 8 game cameo) and Couts and Atkinson are close to 100%, Flyers will roll three solid lines. The defense will have questions, but again, that's where coaching and player development come in. Can Zamula and Attard step up, Risto keep improving on defense, Sanheim rebound?

If a number of young players perform above expectations, that's a good thing, right?

2023-24: Foerster, Zamula, Attard, Ersson
2024-25: Gauthier, Brink, Desnoyers, Wisdom, Andrae, Ginning
2025-26: Bonk, Avon, 2024 1st rd pick, Rizzo
2026-27: Michkov, 2024 1st rd pick, Kaplan, Grans, Samson
[just showing how prospects are lined up the next few years, not predicting success for any of them]

There should be a steady supply of young players, both top 6/top 4 and depth bodies the next 4-5 years.
How fast the team improves will depend on how many of these players develop into real contributors.

I agree that we have lots of bodies, but there will still be growing pains and while I think everyone should get a fair look and be given a chance I try to err on the side of caution with unproven prospects, considering most of our vets are still proving themselves. ill feel alot better if lehigh has a really good season but other than a few names on that list Im still unconvinced most of those guys will be regular NHLers

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

View attachment 735411
Got this off the main boards , I guess Tort's really did fix RR . lol

We finally found something Risto is good at

 

[Beef Invictus]

Wouldn't count on that. Depends how some players develop, if Foerster is for real (looked very good in his 8 game cameo) and Couts and Atkinson are close to 100%, Flyers will roll three solid lines. The defense will have questions, but again, that's where coaching and player development come in. Can Zamula and Attard step up, Risto keep improving on defense, Sanheim rebound?

If a number of young players perform above expectations, that's a good thing, right?

2023-24: Foerster, Zamula, Attard, Ersson
2024-25: Gauthier, Brink, Desnoyers, Wisdom, Andrae, Ginning
2025-26: Bonk, Avon, 2024 1st rd pick, Rizzo
2026-27: Michkov, 2024 1st rd pick, Kaplan, Grans, Samson
[just showing how prospects are lined up the next few years, not predicting success for any of them]

There should be a steady supply of young players, both top 6/top 4 and depth bodies the next 4-5 years.
How fast the team improves will depend on how many of these players develop into real contributors.

None of that will happen. They won't even try to let it happen.

 

[deadhead]

I agree that we have lots of bodies, but there will still be growing pains and while I think everyone should get a fair look and be given a chance I try to err on the side of caution with unproven prospects, considering most of our vets are still proving themselves. ill feel alot better if lehigh has a really good season but other than a few names on that list Im still unconvinced most of those guys will be regular NHLers

The focus in a rebuild shouldn't be on tanking, it should be to accumulate young assets and be patient with them, including marinating them in the AHL while you play veteran scrubs (with TDL value) in the NHL. While picks in the top 5 have the highest probability of emerging as top talent, you can find top players in the 6-15 range each draft, and a few later in the 1st rd. So quantity, patient development, sink a lot of resources into development (scouts, facilities, coaches, etc.). Drafting high should be a byproduct of this process, and if you draft well, you shouldn't be drafting high for more than a few seasons (b/c top players tend to start contributing in their D+2 season at 19-20, Flyers are actually slow walking this with Gauthier and Michkov).

Top players
2012 draft: second tier: Reilly (5), Lindholm (6), Forsberg (11), Hertl (17), Parayko (86)
2013 draft: McKinnon (1), Barkov (2), next tier: Lindholm (5), Monahan (6), Horvat (9), Guentzel (77)
2014 draft: Draisaitl (3), Pastrnk (25); next tier: Ekblad (1), Reinhart (2), Nylander (8), Larkin (15), Point (79), Toews (108)
2015 draft: McDavid (1), Marner (4), Rantanen (10); next tier: Eichel (2), Hanifin (5), Werenski (8), Meier (9), Connor (17), Aho (35)
2016 draft: Matthews (1), Tkachuk (6); next tier: Laine (2), Dubois (3), Keller (7), Sergachyov (9), McAvoy (14), Thompson (26), DeBrincat (39), Fox (66)
2017 draft: Makar (4), Petersson (5); next tier: Hischier (1), Heiskanen (3), Thomas (20), Robertson (39)
2018 draft: Dahlin (1), Svechnikov (2), B Tkachuk (4), Hughes D (7),

 

[tnfrs]

The focus in a rebuild shouldn't be on tanking, it should be to accumulate young assets and be patient with them, including marinating them in the AHL while you play veteran scrubs (with TDL value) in the NHL. While picks in the top 5 have the highest probability of emerging as top talent, you can find top players in the 6-15 range each draft, and a few later in the 1st rd. So quantity, patient development, sink a lot of resources into development (scouts, facilities, coaches, etc.). Drafting high should be a byproduct of this process, and if you draft well, you shouldn't be drafting high for more than a few seasons (b/c top players tend to start contributing in their D+2 season at 19-20, Flyers are actually slow walking this with Gauthier and Michkov).

Top players
2012 draft: second tier: Reilly (5), Lindholm (6), Forsberg (11), Hertl (17), Parayko (86)
2013 draft: McKinnon (1), Barkov (2), next tier: Lindholm (5), Monahan (6), Horvat (9), Guentzel (77)
2014 draft: Draisaitl (3), Pastrnk (25); next tier: Ekblad (1), Reinhart (2), Nylander (8), Larkin (15), Point (79), Toews (108)
2015 draft: McDavid (1), Marner (4), Rantanen (10); next tier: Eichel (2), Hanifin (5), Werenski (8), Meier (9), Connor (17), Aho (35)
2016 draft: Matthews (1), Tkachuk (6); next tier: Laine (2), Dubois (3), Keller (7), Sergachyov (9), McAvoy (14), Thompson (26), DeBrincat (39), Fox (66)
2017 draft: Makar (4), Petersson (5); next tier: Hischier (1), Heiskanen (3), Thomas (20), Robertson (39)
2018 draft: Dahlin (1), Svechnikov (2), B Tkachuk (4), Hughes D (7),

ive never said we should tank and I have no idea why youve listed all these players now

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The focus in a rebuild shouldn't be on tanking, it should be to accumulate young assets and be patient with them, including marinating them in the AHL while you play veteran scrubs (with TDL value) in the NHL. While picks in the top 5 have the highest probability of emerging as top talent, you can find top players in the 6-15 range each draft, and a few later in the 1st rd. So quantity, patient development, sink a lot of resources into development (scouts, facilities, coaches, etc.). Drafting high should be a byproduct of this process, and if you draft well, you shouldn't be drafting high for more than a few seasons (b/c top players tend to start contributing in their D+2 season at 19-20, Flyers are actually slow walking this with Gauthier and Michkov).

Top players
2012 draft: second tier: Reilly (5), Lindholm (6), Forsberg (11), Hertl (17), Parayko (86)
2013 draft: McKinnon (1), Barkov (2), next tier: Lindholm (5), Monahan (6), Horvat (9), Guentzel (77)
2014 draft: Draisaitl (3), Pastrnk (25); next tier: Ekblad (1), Reinhart (2), Nylander (8), Larkin (15), Point (79), Toews (108)
2015 draft: McDavid (1), Marner (4), Rantanen (10); next tier: Eichel (2), Hanifin (5), Werenski (8), Meier (9), Connor (17), Aho (35)
2016 draft: Matthews (1), Tkachuk (6); next tier: Laine (2), Dubois (3), Keller (7), Sergachyov (9), McAvoy (14), Thompson (26), DeBrincat (39), Fox (66)
2017 draft: Makar (4), Petersson (5); next tier: Hischier (1), Heiskanen (3), Thomas (20), Robertson (39)
2018 draft: Dahlin (1), Svechnikov (2), B Tkachuk (4), Hughes D (7),

lets see if the Flyers do that, so fa they got the dman from the kings is all I believe.

As far as the vet scrubs, in theory sounds good. I think they try to re-sign Seeler to a 2 year ext for say 1.1 per. If he balks then they look to move. Staal is no guarantee he is moved. I also think he stays though that is subject to change.

 

[Striiker]

View attachment 735411
Got this off the main boards , I guess Tort's really did fix RR . lol

@VladDrag Was this in O'Connors article?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Wouldn't count on that. Depends how some players develop, if Foerster is for real (looked very good in his 8 game cameo) and Couts and Atkinson are close to 100%, Flyers will roll three solid lines. The defense will have questions, but again, that's where coaching and player development come in. Can Zamula and Attard step up, Risto keep improving on defense, Sanheim rebound?

If a number of young players perform above expectations, that's a good thing, right?

2023-24: Foerster, Zamula, Attard, Ersson
2024-25: Gauthier, Brink, Desnoyers, Wisdom, Andrae, Ginning
2025-26: Bonk, Avon, 2024 1st rd pick, Rizzo
2026-27: Michkov, 2024 1st rd pick, Kaplan, Grans, Samson
[just showing how prospects are lined up the next few years, not predicting success for any of them]

There should be a steady supply of young players, both top 6/top 4 and depth bodies the next 4-5 years.
How fast the team improves will depend on how many of these players develop into real contributors.

so funny to me you think they will be in the top 6 come october.

not exactly this great prospect pool.

 

[deadhead]

so funny to me you think they will be in the top 6 come october.

not exactly this great prospect pool.

If you look at Wheeler's prospect ranking each seasons, teams don't have a lot of top prospects, good talent pipelines have a couple top guys and a lot of solid prospects. Once you get past the "sure things," it's hit and miss, so more solid swings, more hits.

Flyers are rebuilding system depth, hopefully they'll have more Lindblom and Cates in this group and fewer Dove-McFall, Ratcliffe, Twarynski and Vorobyevs.
But even 13th forwards and 7 D-men types have value when you build the depth to stash them in the AHL in case of injury - it's when you have no depth and have to play these types on a regular basis you're in trouble.

Zamula will be in the top 6, Attard depends on how much progress he's made defensively.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Flyers aren't rebuilding anything.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If you look at Wheeler's prospect ranking each seasons, teams don't have a lot of top prospects, good talent pipelines have a couple top guys and a lot of solid prospects. Once you get past the "sure things," it's hit and miss, so more solid swings, more hits.

Flyers are rebuilding system depth, hopefully they'll have more Lindblom and Cates in this group and fewer Dove-McFall, Ratcliffe, Twarynski and Vorobyevs.
But even 13th forwards and 7 D-men types have value when you build the depth to stash them in the AHL in case of injury - it's when you have no depth and have to play these types on a regular basis you're in trouble.

Zamula will be in the top 6, Attard depends on how much progress he's made defensively.

flyers prospect pool is nothing special in any way, especially if you remove MM. You just seem to think all these you guys you menton will be nhl players.

What would you like to wager Zamula will not be in the top six come game 1. Assuming no injuries or trades before then. Who is he supplanting out of Sanheim York RR Staal Walker and Seeler?

Shouldn't matter how much progress he has made, they are not even giving him a legit chance. He may just not be an nhl level dman. They may also think this as well. No reason not to find out as he will be what 24 years old this season?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The Flyers aren't rebuilding anything.

So odd people cant see this even the 100% homers. As of this moment they have shown really no signs of rebuilding.

Did Not sign/trade for any young castoffs who may have needed a change of scenery with some untapped potential. They are not allowing their "young" D to battle it out amongst themselves for a spot or 2. Roster is pretty much set.

I hope they get off to a decent stat so they do something stupid. Though I also hope they flop so bad and are just brutal.

 

[tnfrs]

flyers prospect pool is nothing special in any way, especially if you remove MM. You just seem to think all these you guys you menton will be nhl players.

What would you like to wager Zamula will not be in the top six come game 1. Assuming no injuries or trades before then. Who is he supplanting out of Sanheim York RR Staal Walker and Seeler?

Shouldn't matter how much progress he has made, they are not even giving him a legit chance. He may just not be an nhl level dman. They may also think this as well. No reason not to find out as he will be what 24 years old this season?

i think management feels like this group deserves a chance to show what theyre capable of without any distractions. see If we were really bad because we're bad or were we bad because of injuries to coots and cam and hayes and deangelo quiet quitting on the team.

Im not saying its a good idea, but Im starting to think theyre gonna roll this lineup all season. If it fails they can still lean into a full tank season later. But if everyone shows up to camp ready, and everyone is prepared and has bought in to the system, if EVERYTHING goes perfect this team might be better than it looks on paper. If we have a good start to the season and dont run into any injury troubles, and if Danny makes no other moves before training camp, they probably wait to see what happens this year, since next year we have 5 or 6 roster spots opening up.

Thats my concern right now that we do better than expected by accident this year. We're gonna have around 10m cap space at the deadline. Which is just enough to pick up just about any rental they want.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

i think management feels like this group deserves a chance to show what theyre capable of without any distractions. see If we were really bad because we're bad or were we bad because of injuries to coots and cam and hayes and deangelo quiet quitting on the team.

Im not saying its a good idea, but Im starting to think theyre gonna roll this lineup all season. If it fails they can still lean into a full tank season later. But if everyone shows up to camp ready, and everyone is prepared and has bought in to the system, if EVERYTHING goes perfect this team might be better than it looks on paper. If we have a good start to the season and dont run into any injury troubles, and if Danny makes no other moves before training camp, they probably wait to see what happens this year, since next year we have 5 or 6 roster spots opening up.

Thats my concern right now that we do better than expected by accident this year. We're gonna have around 10m cap space at the deadline. Which is just enough to pick up just about any rental they want.

I agree for the most part overall. They do not think they are as bad as it seems. They are convinced with Torts no in place after year 1 they are on the playoff course. Hayes and tony d didn't quit imo at all. Especially tony d

How do you see 5/6 roster spots next year open?

in bold will never happen. The co-GM has said they will never tank. In this case he aint lying.

 

[tnfrs]

I agree for the most part overall. They do not think they are as bad as it seems. They are convinced with Torts no in place after year 1 they are on the playoff course. Hayes and tony d didn't quit imo at all. Especially tony d

How do you see 5/6 roster spots next year open?

in bold will never happen. The co-GM has said they will never tank. In this case he aint lying.

walker staal seeler are all on expiring contracts, and depending what they do with wade allison and lacynzki and poehling, and they may also still make a move between now and then

 

[VladDrag]

@VladDrag Was this in O'Connors article?

He actually put something like this in a chart, but didn’t touch on it at all.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

6 years from Pitt drafting Malkin to winning. They also needed to draft an even better player in Crosby right after, then Staal, and Letang too. On top of building around them.

It was 14 years on from drafting Ovechkin and other major talents that Washington won. Colorado and TB needed many more than 3 years. But yeah, sure, mission accomplished in 3 years. Very sane approach, expectation, and plan.

It's bad enough that you continue to indulge this fantasy that the Flyers are managing to a strict 3 year max rebuild timeline because Jonesy mentioned it on a radio show when pressed.

It's even worse that you've now apparently lost the ability to understand what the word "contend" means. The Pens were contenders in Crosby's 2nd year. They actually finished on more points than they did Crosby's 3rd year when they won the cup. The Capitals were contenders in Ovi's 3rd year when they won their division. The Oilers were contenders in McDavid's 2nd year when they finished on 103 points and made the 2nd round.

I don't think Jonesy or any other member of the FO said "we're winning a cup 3 years from now"

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's bad enough that you continue to indulge this fantasy that the Flyers are managing to a strict 3 year max rebuild timeline because Jonesy mentioned it on a radio show when pressed.

It's even worse that you've now apparently lost the ability to understand what the word "contend" means. The Pens were contenders in Crosby's 2nd year. They actually finished on more points than they did Crosby's 3rd year when they won the cup. The Capitals were contenders in Ovi's 3rd year when they won their division. The Oilers were contenders in McDavid's 2nd year when they finished on 103 points and made the 2nd round.

I don't think Jonesy or any other member of the FO said "we're winning a cup 3 years from now"

If they didn't believe the timeline they wouldn't be building for their short-term coach's whims and holding onto everyone with value because he likes them and they think they'll still be of utility when their timeline ends.

There's no reason to believe he was lying or bullshitting. There's no upside to saying it if you can't deliver, it would be a smashing and humiliating failure.

They said it and their actions show they believe it.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

If they didn't believe the timeline they wouldn't be building for their short-term coach's whims and holding onto everyone with value because he likes them and they think they'll still be of utility when their timeline ends.

There's no reason to believe he was lying or bullshitting. There's no upside to saying it if you can't deliver, it would be a smashing and humiliating failure.

They said it and their actions show they believe it.

No move made by Briere since taking over has been a short term one. They took on bad contracts that go out 2 years for draft compensation. They drafted a player who may not be here for a full 3 years. They signed no legitimate big name/expensive free agents and every FA contract they did sign is for 2 years or less. They traded their best defenseman for picks and prospects.

None of these moves signal a team that is planning internally to build a contender in the near future. The fact that you fail to admit this just shows your overwhelming bias towards the org for their past failures.

They have right now given themselves the OPTION to begin building up with free agents in the summer of 2025. That is an option. Depending on what the team looks like, they can defer that to 2026 or 2027. But giving yourself ample cap space is not a bad thing. Nor does it signal a hard and fast "deadline to compete".

 

[Flyerfan4life]

No move made by Briere since taking over has been a short term one. They took on bad contracts that go out 2 years for draft compensation. They drafted a player who may not be here for a full 3 years. They signed no legitimate big name/expensive free agents and every FA contract they did sign is for 2 years or less. They traded their best defenseman for picks and prospects.

None of these moves signal a team that is planning internally to build a contender in the near future. The fact that you fail to admit this just shows your overwhelming bias towards the org for their past failures.

They have right now given themselves the OPTION to begin building up with free agents in the summer of 2025. That is an option. Depending on what the team looks like, they can defer that to 2026 or 2027. But giving yourself ample cap space is not a bad thing. Nor does it signal a hard and fast "deadline to compete".

its cute you think MM isnt coming over within the first season

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

its cute you think MM isnt coming over within the first season

Its cute you think Rotenberg is going to let him leave 2 years early. But I wouldn't complain about MM arriving at the same time as Cutter.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No move made by Briere since taking over has been a short term one. They took on bad contracts that go out 2 years for draft compensation. They drafted a player who may not be here for a full 3 years. They signed no legitimate big name/expensive free agents and every FA contract they did sign is for 2 years or less. They traded their best defenseman for picks and prospects.

None of these moves signal a team that is planning internally to build a contender in the near future. The fact that you fail to admit this just shows your overwhelming bias towards the org for their past failures.

They have right now given themselves the OPTION to begin building up with free agents in the summer of 2025. That is an option. Depending on what the team looks like, they can defer that to 2026 or 2027. But giving yourself ample cap space is not a bad thing. Nor does it signal a hard and fast "deadline to compete".

No move? No move at all? You're sure about that?

Provorov wasn't their best defenseman. They think they're almost done with this. They think they're going to be done and out the other side while Tortorella is still under contract. They aren't rebuilding, they're building around him. They are very stupid.

 

[Redpath]

No move? No move at all? You're sure about that?

Provorov wasn't their best defenseman. They think they're almost done with this. They think they're going to be done and out the other side while Tortorella is still under contract. They aren't rebuilding, they're building around him. They are very stupid.

They're rebuilding around Tortorella by making the focus of the franchise a player who Tortorella hates?

 

[deadhead]

walker staal seeler are all on expiring contracts, and depending what they do with wade allison and lacynzki and poehling, and they may also still make a move between now and then

That's the point.

Walker and Hathaway are the only two that are guaranteed to start, and both are solid players who should have a lot of TDL value.
I don't think you'll see a lot of Staal and Seeler on the ice at the same time, they're a bit redundant.
And they're stuck with some players, Couts, Sanheim and Risto are basically unmovable right now.

This is more like what Howie does every summer, patch "holes" with veterans, then see if some kids can make them expendable.
In the NHL, due to having options and a minor league team, and guaranteed contracts, that process takes longer to play out.

The purpose of the scrub veterans is to allow the team the option of not rushing a prospect just because there's a hole in the roster, any prospect worth playing won't be blocked by someone like Staal.